[scottp999]

So who has a few hundred laying around to order 1 of each of the newer pistons to visually confirm?

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Just looked it up on realoem.com and I don't know where you guys got the numbers above but it looks wrong...here's info from realoem.com (notice the "UP TO" date, its 12/2009, starting with Dec 2009 the N54 piston part number changed, see below):

========

No. Description Supplement Qty From Up To Part Number Price Notes
01 Piston (0) 6 12/2009 11257577581 $354.95
01 Piston (+0,25) 6 12/2009 11257577582

======

THEN selecting the batch of N54s built while N55s were out shows that starting in 12/2009 a new part number of the N54 pistons came out: 11257610295, 11257610296:

===
No. Description Supplement Qty From Up To Part Number Price Notes
01 Piston (0) 6 12/2009 11257610295
01 Piston (+0,25) 6 12/2009 11257610296
====

Notice that this new set of piston parts started in Dec 2009.

What this clarifies is the following:

1) All cars built before December 2009 have the same pistons
2) 3 members of this board had their engines taken apart and got confirmation on FORGED pistons, rods and crankshaft (enrita, unfor and E92Fan)

What's not clear:

1) Starting with Dec 2009 N54 pistons, are these still forged or cast?

Mahle isn't clear and "very possibly" referred to late model N54s (Dec 2009+)...

There is "no doubt" N54 pistons BEFORE Dec 2009 are forged as this has been confirmed multiple times...

My car's VIN was checked by Mahle and it they said it is cast. And my car is built in October 2008 (second LCI build week).

I have no doubt that the pistons in all the N54 engines are manufactured using the same technology (either cast or forged). It would be stupid for BMW to switch to cast pistons and then release the 1M and 335is with more power and torque.

N54 engine longevity may be explained by the brilliant knock protection in the MSD80/81 DMEs.

My question still remains, for those who say their pistons are forged, how can you tell visually ? Also, it's strange that no one noted a piston code when they inspected their pistons ?

Other sad news is that Mahle said that they do not manufacture aftermarket forged piston kits for the N54 engine

[Dmacc]

9/2009! barely safe!

[Joe@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by werke-t

as in power from just the engine itself with out turbo(s) in the equasion?

from what I understand every PSI added = more power. Thats why I used boost as the measurement of how much power the engine can handle.

If your talking about the power the stock turbos can produce, then yea the forged pistons wont make or break at those power levels as we have seen.. im only talking about upgraded or single turbos.

-Travis

Regardless of Turbo size, the limitation of a motor is simply power output.

However you get there is your party, but some day we will find how much POWER these motors can take before the bottom end cant support it.

Whether it be the rods, the crank, (we dont know yet).


20 PSI on a small turbo and 20 PSI on twin GT37';s is a totally different amount of CFM, and therefore a different amount of power.

That is why judging limitation by PSI is moot.

[Mr. Nice]

Does it really matter? Cast pistons should be able to handle close to 600 rwhp, not too many people are approaching that, maybe unfor but I don't know many others. The important thing is the rods are forged.

[Elie335]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

My car's VIN was checked by Mahle and it they said it is cast. And my car is built in October 2008 (second LCI build week).

I have no doubt that the pistons in all the N54 engines are manufactured using the same technology (either cast or forged). It would be stupid for BMW to switch to cast pistons and then release the 1M and 335is with more power and torque.

N54 engine longevity may be explained by the brilliant knock protection in the MSD80/81 DMEs.

My question still remains, for those who say their pistons are forged, how can you tell visually ? Also, it's strange that no one noted a piston code when they inspected their pistons ?

Other sad news is that Mahle said that they do not manufacture aftermarket forged piston kits for the N54 engine

someone answer this please?

[Streetluger06]

Originally Posted by Rob@TopGearSolutions

Regardless of Turbo size, the limitation of a motor is simply power output.

However you get there is your party, but some day we will find how much POWER these motors can take before the bottom end cant support it.

Whether it be the rods, the crank, (we dont know yet).


20 PSI on a small turbo and 20 PSI on twin GT37';s is a totally different amount of CFM, and therefore a different amount of power.

That is why judging limitation by PSI is moot.

This is exactly right. The best way to determine how crazy we can get with our engines will be with hp numbers and lbs/minute of airflow. Psi is arbitrary unless everyone has the same turbo (like most people do now with our cars).

[Joe@TopGearSolutions]

To the naked eye you sometimes cant tell between forged or cast... ON this specific application I'm not sure. Sometimes there is a difference in the metal finish where one would look as if it were machined on lathe or something.

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

Other sad news is that Mahle said that they do not manufacture aftermarket forged piston kits for the N54 engine

Looks like VAC motorsports sells a forged piston set: http://store.vacmotorsports.com/cp-p...kit-p2035.aspx

[Transport3r]

Originally Posted by werke-t

as in power from just the engine itself with out turbo(s) in the equasion?
-Travis

Just power by itself. If you want to be really specific, it's torque really.
The stress in the internal components of the motor at time x are directly related to the torque output at this time.

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by scottp999

Looks like VAC motorsports sells a forged piston set: http://store.vacmotorsports.com/cp-p...kit-p2035.aspx

Yes but it's made by CP Carillo and not Mahle.

[unfor]

Originally Posted by werke-t

well it was also seems to be something people were not supposed to know?

Although BMW stated it has a forged crank in some specs,

Its never been documented on any 335i spec review that it has forged internals, most likely because they didnt want all the aftermarket tuners in the world thinking it was the next supra, and lets TUNE THE HELL OUTTA THIS THING!

Now we know, lets take advantage of it. Waiting on PROefi system and a single turbo kit

-Travis

Yes, I am working on wiring this week. Secondary Injection is all resolved though. The rest is going through the entire DME wire.

Anyway, I know mine were forged before the single turbo thread began., I had a shop open the motor up to determine any upgrade routes or to see how much HP it should support. They took the piston and compared it to some other cast BMW pistons. The pistons were forged and comporable to something like Wiseco.

The rods were also forged.

It looks like that changed later model year.

Early bird gets the worm.

[Elie335]

Originally Posted by unfor

Yes, I am working on wiring this week. Secondary Injection is all resolved though. The rest is going through the entire DME wire.

Anyway, I know mine were forged before the single turbo thread began., I had a shop open the motor up to determine any upgrade routes or to see how much HP it should support. They took the piston and compared it to some other cast BMW pistons. The pistons were forged and comporable to something like Wiseco.

The rods were also forged.

It looks like that changed later model year.

Early bird gets the worm.

isn't that enough tscdennab?

[jubb]

forgive my ignorance

are the rods aluminum or steel?

[N54bimmer]

Mine is built in 06/2007 so is it garanteed that mine are forged??

[Elie335]

Originally Posted by jubb

forgive my ignorance

are the rods aluminum or steel?

already been said, they are FORGED.

[Forcefed3]

Who will be the first to lower their compression ration to 9.5:1 with the CP pistons?

[jubb]

Originally Posted by Elie335

already been said, they are FORGED.

Manufacturing technique explains nothing about the material used.

Thanks though

[TurboBimmer]

Originally Posted by scottp999

Looks like VAC motorsports sells a forged piston set: http://store.vacmotorsports.com/cp-p...kit-p2035.aspx

So would there be no benefit from getting these pistons?

Unless you wanted pistons with lower compression to cope with high boost levels?

Can I ray the $4k reserved for upgraded engine internals from my mod list?

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by Elie335

isn't that enough tscdennab?

Sorry but I can't call that proof. Someone from a shop looks at a piston and sais it is forged. As opposed to the piston manufacturer saying it is cast.

We will find out for sure when someone comes up with a piston's code.

[Elie335]

I wonder if Enrita still have the OLD set of pistons he changed.

[unfor]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

Sorry but I can't call that proof. Someone from a shop looks at a piston and sais it is forged. As opposed to the piston manufacturer saying it is cast.

We will find out for sure when someone comes up with a piston's code.

You know what? You are really pissing me off. Get your head out of Mahles ass a minute.

They had the piston in HAND, and have done builds for years.

All Mahle did was look up a FUCKING Part number. They never even SAW The piston first hand. Anyone and their mom can look up a part number., End of story.

I have an August 2006 build and made 660+rwhp on the STOCK bottom end. Sorry, but cast pistons wouldn't do that.

Again, I paid someone to LOOK at the motor and inspect it, clean valves, etc. I even authorized them to BUILD pistons if need be. Guess what? If I needed them, they would have told me. And you know what? They showed me the DISH on the piston and various markings (over a year ago) to show me that it was forged.

So the buiold went on, and now I am happy.

But listen, all Mahle is doing is looking up a part number. Enrita blew is motor and had it disassembled. Guess what? His shop also confirmed it was forged. There isnt a consipiracy here. If there was such a desire to have cast pistons, like there is LSD, there would have already been them pushed more on the market.