[chumley]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Then I hotwire the system manually to spray a tiny amount into the charge pipe so I know all the meth is in the lines and no air.

How did you do this? I know you can prime the pump with the jumper on the boost switch and I've "hotwired" the meth solenoid during some trouble-shooting by grounding the pin at the Procede end but is there a way to trigger it without pulling everything apart again? There's obviously a ground wire that goes to that pin 17/4 going back to the solenoid/pump - just not sure which one it is.

[Joshboody]

It's definitely happening only when hot and car sits. I think the meth mixture in the line is boiling. I'm probably around 70/30 mix. How could I determine if this is the case? I was thinking of reducing my injection DC and injecting pure water and see what happens.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Hey Jeff, I think Hellblazers thoughts on check valve are different then yours... he stating in line to the meth pump to hold charge. Maybe I misunderstood the discussion. A check valve near the meth pump wouldn't add anything, but near the WW tank it may. But it will reduce flow.

I'm not sure what he was trying to say but I'm just letting you guys know what has worked for me with absolutely no air in the lines.

I have T at the WW line to the pump. After the Pump is a solenoid and into the nozzle.

In the WW line before the washer nozzles I have a check valve. That keeps the WW line full of meth.

I have no air in the lines to the pump or the lines after the pump. I run clear tubing so I know.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by chumley

How did you do this? I know you can prime the pump with the jumper on the boost switch and I've "hotwired" the meth solenoid during some trouble-shooting by grounding the pin at the Procede end but is there a way to trigger it without pulling everything apart again? There's obviously a ground wire that goes to that pin 17/4 going back to the solenoid/pump - just not sure which one it is.

I have a basic devils own meth boost switch. I dont have any of that fancy stuff you guys might have, but I always have had the saying keep things simple.

The boost switch allows you to hot wire to a constant 12V source.

Originally Posted by Joshboody

It's definitely happening only when hot and car sits. I think the meth mixture in the line is boiling. I'm probably around 70/30 mix. How could I determine if this is the case? I was thinking of reducing my injection DC and injecting pure water and see what happens.

I still have no air in my lines.....

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I still have no air in my lines.....

you're in a different climate then me... ambient temps are >100deg now and I'm at 700 to 1000ft above sea level. After driving and shutting the car off during the day, the heat will radiate without any airflow... this is my only thought now. Night no prob, have flow and starting the car when cold I have flow... just after it sits for about 20min.

Thanks for your inputs Jeff!

[spiderx4]

I was using hijack mode from the ww line, was getting alot of air in the line. Then I switched to the cap and still getting air in lines but not nearly as much. Im going to tap the tank later and run a line direct from the pump to the tank.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

In the WW line before the washer nozzles I have a check valve. That keeps the WW line full of meth.

I have no air in the lines to the pump or the lines after the pump. I run clear tubing so I know.

Hope this helps.

I was thinking about installing one more check valve just above the line coming out of the WW reservoir stock washer pump.

Thinking this would keep all the fluid upstream from slipping back into the tank.

The check valve at the washer nozzles just prevents air from leaking in at the nozzles, but the T fitting connection could still allow the fluid from the meth pump line to fall out of suspension.

So placing a check valve at the lowest possible point in the system may prevent the slippage back into the WW tank.

I dunno.....whadya think?

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

you're in a different climate then me... ambient temps are >100deg now and I'm at 700 to 1000ft above sea level. After driving and shutting the car off during the day, the heat will radiate without any airflow... this is my only thought now. Night no prob, have flow and starting the car when cold I have flow... just after it sits for about 20min.

Thanks for your inputs Jeff!

I understand your concern for heat and it is possible for meth to boil. As I mentioned previously I did have air once in my lines and it turned out my input line to the pump was loose. I'm not saying this is your problem but i can be something very similar as simple. Some air between the solenoid and nozzle is ok albeit.

Is your setup the same as mine except with PWM hardware?

Only problem with the heat index is our engine bay temps are probably very similar when stagnant and in traffic. I did have this setup in 100 degree heat with no problems either however I'm very near sea level.

Originally Posted by Ilma

I was thinking about installing one more check valve just above the line coming out of the WW reservoir stock washer pump.

Thinking this would keep all the fluid upstream from slipping back into the tank.

The check valve at the washer nozzles just prevents air from leaking in at the nozzles, but the T fitting connection could still allow the fluid from the meth pump line to fall out of suspension.

So placing a check valve at the lowest possible point in the system may prevent the slippage back into the WW tank.

I dunno.....whadya think?

I thought the checkvalve near the washer nozzles was to hold the meth up that point and in so fact allowing the T line access to meth all the time...

I hate physics LOL

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I thought the checkvalve near the washer nozzles was to hold the meth up that point and in so fact allowing the T line access to meth all the time...

I hate physics LOL

Yes.....it probably does hold the fluid in suspension....but that checkvalve is still way above the washer tank....so eventually gravity is going to have it's way i think, especially if your meth level gets low as there wont be much fluid in the tank pushing back against the natural tendency for for fluid in the line to fall to the lowest point.

I'm just thinking it might be easier for a check valve to hold fluid that is above it's location rather than try to keep it from dropping out of suspension from below it's location.

The weight of the fluid from below will create a suction effect that may end up pulling some air through the washer nozzle which then allows the fluid to drop out of suspension.

Food for thought......anyone an expert on fluid dynamics?

[EastBayE90]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Yes.....it probably does hold the fluid in suspension....but that checkvalve is still way above the washer tank....so eventually gravity is going to have it's way i think, especially if your meth level gets low as there wont be much fluid in the tank pushing back against the natural tendency for for fluid in the line to fall to the lowest point.

I'm just thinking it might be easier for a check valve to hold fluid that is above it's location rather than try to keep it from dropping out of suspension from below it's location.

The weight of the fluid from below will create a suction effect that may end up pulling some air through the washer nozzle which then allows the fluid to drop out of suspension.

Food for thought......anyone an expert on fluid dynamics?

I think placing a check valve as close to the WW pump as possible will be a great test. In theory the two check valves, 1 at the WW sprayers and 1 at the WW pump will act as a completely closed system when shut down and not used for a few days. When vacuum drops after the system is not used gravity will try to pull the meth back into the line to match the fluid level in the reservoir (equalize). The lower check valve near the WW pump will stop this from happening. Plus the check valve would be at a very low point in the system, meth in the reservoir would sit at a higher point keeping meth in the line up to the check valve. The other higher check valve near the WW sprayers will not allow air in when shut down.

The only downside I could imagine is the restriction it could create. Maybe a bigger/higher rated gpm check valve near the WW pump and the normal Vishnu supplied check valve at the WW sprayers. This would be the ultimate combo.

[Joshboody]

Jeff, I've checked my line arrangement multiple times. I really only have 3 places for air to enter now and they are pretty solid. My next actions will be to either route the line over the cowl as a heat shield, or I may try 100% water (due to the higher boiling point) as an experiment. It's cooling off though and I have to travel for the next week, so I might not even have similar weather for testing... although if the issue does surface when cool, then my theory is incorrect. For climate I think the dryer air may have a lot to do with it.

Ilma, I do like the idea of a check valve. I noticed that free wheel flow (no pressure on the push side) was effected by the WW pump. I don't know what effect this would have on post-valve pressure/flow. Fluid dynamics escapes me also, but my thought is that above X flow on the suction side you can sustain needed pressure on push side.

[Joshboody]

UPDATE:
Currently Meth is running great. I think my issue was Meth boiling in the line when ambient temps were hot, combined with running the car hard and then it sitting for about 20min and the heat radiating. Since weather has cooled down no issues with prime and meth instantly available on stabbing the throttle.

I have rerouted my line over the cowl and used rubber hose as insulation, but won't know the effects until its hot again. I'm using about 4ft of rubber washer hose direct from WW tank routed with the battery cable to DME box and then the hard Meth line direct to pump. WW pump and window line eliminated.

The only possible source for enough heat now (I believe) is from tank to DME box since using the battery cable path is a little closer to the engine, but still shielded by strut tower

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Yea my lines have always been on top of the cowl. Maybe thats why I never had a problem. Glad you got it resolved.

[EastBayE90]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I have rerouted my line over the cowl and used rubber hose as insulation, but won't know the effects until its hot again. I'm using about 4ft of rubber washer hose direct from WW tank routed with the battery cable to DME box and then the hard Meth line direct to pump. WW pump and window line eliminated.

Interesting find. My hard line is not routed over the cowl. I have not had any issues so I don't think I will change it but if it ever starts acting up when it's hot outside I'll know what to do. So everything is running ok with the WW pump completely out of the picture? Did you tap a new line into the tank or just remove the WW pump completely?

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420

Interesting find. My hard line is not routed over the cowl. I have not had any issues so I don't think I will change it but if it ever starts acting up when it's hot outside I'll know what to do. So everything is running ok with the WW pump completely out of the picture? Did you tap a new line into the tank or just remove the WW pump completely?

Yep, meth on command so far. I inserted vacuum T to the stock grommet/filter... forgot the size, but fit very snug.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Yea my lines have always been on top of the cowl. Maybe thats why I never had a problem. Glad you got it resolved.

I re-routed the meth line to be on top of the cowl too. Makes sense to keep as much heat away as possible from the meth line.

No issues with meth flow lately either.

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Yep, meth on command so far. I inserted vacuum T to the stock grommet/filter... forgot the size, but fit very snug.

Huh....what does that mean exactly? T-line into stock grommet/filter? Can't visualize where that tap would be.

[Joshboody]

I just used the WW pump location... so instead of the pump, I used vacuum T

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I just used the WW pump location... so instead of the pump, I used vacuum T

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....I can see clearly now, the rain is gone....lol!

[EastBayE90]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I just used the WW pump location... so instead of the pump, I used vacuum T

You just removed the WW pump and shoved a T fitting into the black rubber grommit that is attached to the WW in tank filter?


If so that is a good idea now I have to ask why a T fitting? Are you now running two lines. I would imagine you would only need one hose coming from the T and to the hard line going to the meth pump.

Or did you cap the other end of the T fitting.

[Joshboody]

I purchased both an elbow and T... the T fit further into the WW tank, so deeper into the fluid; not as far as the pump, but good enough. And just capped the other end.

I thought about removing the filter to reach the bottom of the tank with a line, but decided not to since I already removed the inline filter that comes with the kit.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

UPDATE:
Currently Meth is running great. I think my issue was Meth boiling in the line when ambient temps were hot, combined with running the car hard and then it sitting for about 20min and the heat radiating. Since weather has cooled down no issues with prime and meth instantly available on stabbing the throttle.

I have rerouted my line over the cowl and used rubber hose as insulation, but won't know the effects until its hot again. I'm using about 4ft of rubber washer hose direct from WW tank routed with the battery cable to DME box and then the hard Meth line direct to pump. WW pump and window line eliminated.

The only possible source for enough heat now (I believe) is from tank to DME box since using the battery cable path is a little closer to the engine, but still shielded by strut tower

Are you still running this? Now that its hot again, did this solve the problem?

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Are you still running this? Now that its hot again, did this solve the problem?

I ended up relocating to the trunk before I could test in hot weather
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=691043

I did rout a new line under the ECU box, before I went trunk mount, instead using the battery cable location to move as far away as possible... should be fine like this. Basically same location as WW tap , but using nylon line with rubber hose as shielding.