[seanarms]

Originally Posted by taibanl

The center in an ms8 system is the workhorse. Its not an annoyance

Yes, you can achieve a good soundstage (for one seat only) by time aligning that seat. My center isnt hooked up right now (waiting on parts) but still sounds like its there.

Do you have oem l7? People seem to agree that the ms8 does a better job than oem, but oem can be improved significantly by addition of a tweeter

I have the oem l7 no tweet in center but was debating your package before they sold out. I am intrigued by the difference a center tweeter will make with just the stock system.

[taibanl]

Try the 8-ohm. It's the more "level-matched" of the two, so I'm not sure why the 4ohm sold first (other than it was new). If you dont like it, send it back and I wont charge you.

[mob17]

Originally Posted by taibanl

No Offense to vp electricity but i dont think hes gotten the best possible results from
Ms-8. I have nothing to back this up but you really have to buy into the AndyW mindset to get the most from the unit...and ive gotten amazing results.

Fyi i am spending a lot of money to go from an un-amped center to an amped center.

So thats why you're upgrading your xd

I think i can use the xd AND amp the centre, as im not too bothered about the woofers. Will prob keep them oem (maybe add hifi/L7 ones if i really want to) and add a sub. This way i think a single xd channel will be enough

[taibanl]

Well not specifically, i terms of simple power, i would rather keep the xd and run a biamped center. I have a lot of other little reasons

[kaigoss69]

Yes you do!

How does it sound???

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Yes you do!

How does it sound???

Still waiting

[superjay]

there is no way in hell I'd add a tweeter to the center of my 3. it would absolutely destroy the stage, and imaging. Right now I get a decently wide stage, with image placement being fairly accurate. Adding a tweeter to the center spot would narrow the stage, and ruin stereo imaging.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by superjay

there is no way in hell I'd add a tweeter to the center of my 3. it would absolutely destroy the stage, and imaging. Right now I get a decently wide stage, with image placement being fairly accurate. Adding a tweeter to the center spot would narrow the stage, and ruin stereo imaging.

I don't know what 3 you are driving, but the vocal image placement in an 06 330 and 08 335 sedan is right around the left sail panel, where the tweeter is. Funny enough, it is more or less in the same spot when using the MS-8 processor, and using the "front" setting. This is because the front setting is a compromise in time alignment between the driver and passenger seats. If you like the way that sounds, by all means don't change a thing!

[superjay]

one cannot align time. I think you mean signal delay.

If you have a strong signal from the front left move your seat back. The magical tuning processor in the MS8 is designed to give you a good baseline from which to finish fine tuning manually. This is one reason I don't care for the MS8.

I have the MoBridge pre-amp replacing the factory amp, running an optic signal into a Mosconi 6to8 processor. I don't have the strong left signal anymore. It's all about how you tune it, and much less about speaker placement

you're running decent equipment (I love the HAT drivers...especially the Legatia you are running), there's no reason you can't make it sound better without adding a center tweeter. The Legatia L3SE will run from 200Hz to 22kHz...you don't need a center tweeter

[seanarms]

The MoBridge Pre-amp is available? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[superjay]

the one with optic out only is available.

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by superjay

one cannot align time. I think you mean signal delay.

If you have a strong signal from the front left move your seat back. The magical tuning processor in the MS8 is designed to give you a good baseline from which to finish fine tuning manually. This is one reason I don't care for the MS8.

I have the MoBridge pre-amp replacing the factory amp, running an optic signal into a Mosconi 6to8 processor. I don't have the strong left signal anymore. It's all about how you tune it, and much less about speaker placement

you're running decent equipment (I love the HAT drivers...especially the Legatia you are running), there's no reason you can't make it sound better without adding a center tweeter. The Legatia L3SE will run from 200Hz to 22kHz...you don't need a center tweeter

I'm not saying my system needs a tweeter to improve imaging, but the OEM system surely benefits from it. The presence of the tweeter "pulls" the stage more towards the middle of the dash.

IMO the MS-8 will give you more than just a good baseline. As a matter of fact, you can have spectacular results "right out of the box". It's all about selecting the right components, the install, and setting the levels correctly.

For example, I used to run the Hybrids without tweeters. While the MS-8 did do a very nice job autotuning, I did have better results after Scott B. did some manual fine tuning. He basically made some adjustments in the treble area that the MS-8 could not do, due to the severe off-axis installation. Now I am running the door Hybrids with Rainbow Pro series tweeters and passive x-overs, and this time the tune was absolutely dead on. No adjustments needed north of 200Hz.

I did buy another tweeter for the center, but I did not yet install it. I agree with you that theoretically the L3Se does not need a tweeter in that position, due to reflections coming off the windshield. I may still install it one of these days, just to see what the difference will be.

The MS-8 is an amazing processor, but you need to have all your ducks in a row before you can unleash its full potential.

[superjay]

Buwalda tuned your car and you STILL think you need a center tweeter?

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by superjay

one cannot align time. I think you mean signal delay.

If you have a strong signal from the front left move your seat back. The magical tuning processor in the MS8 is designed to give you a good baseline from which to finish fine tuning manually. This is one reason I don't care for the MS8.

I have the MoBridge pre-amp replacing the factory amp, running an optic signal into a Mosconi 6to8 processor. I don't have the strong left signal anymore. It's all about how you tune it, and much less about speaker placement

you're running decent equipment (I love the HAT drivers...especially the Legatia you are running), there's no reason you can't make it sound better without adding a center tweeter. The Legatia L3SE will run from 200Hz to 22kHz...you don't need a center tweeter

Well, given that the commonly accepted phrase for the process of adjusting delay on an an audio system is called time alignment...i think he means time alignment :

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by superjay

Buwalda tuned your car and you STILL think you need a center tweeter?

Well I did not touch a damn thing for about 8 months...

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Well I did not touch a damn thing for about 8 months...

...and then what happened?

[kaigoss69]

Well whatever the right term is, in my case I think it is more like "time shifting" because every time I get in my car I feel like an 18-year old again!

[superjay]

one cannot shift time. One can, however, delay a signal.

[bmw325i]

Originally Posted by superjay

one cannot shift time. One can, however, delay a signal.

One can call it whatever they want. However, one cannot care less.

[superjay]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

One can call it whatever they want. However, one cannot care less.

this is true; one can call it what ever they want...however, one would be wrong to call it anything but signal delay.

[mob17]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

One can call it whatever they want. However, one cannot care less.

One LOLZ

[redz06]

You quote two different models as one (at least in the US) Morel specs indicate that the Dotech and the Hybrid Ovation II are two different systems. THe HOII seems to be the latest, and is accordingly priced higher. The Dotech and the HOII systems are different in the tweeter (MT12 vs MT22 and the crossover MX 22.4 vs MX 20. So you may need to be more specific in what you are running. I am running the Morel Hybrid Ovation II system with Jehnert Mid-woofers and a JL 600/6 amplifier and am saying that I am very happy with the result. I have not tested the Morel Dotechs.

Originally Posted by mob17

Hi

I am considering two upgrades to my existing system and really want some of your thoughts on each one.

Currently i have the ms-8, with a vibe slick 4 as the centre channel, hooked up in my base system. all speakers apart from the vibe are stock. i now want to add components and a 4/5 channel amp powering the components and woofers and maybe the centre vibe.

1st setup

For this option i would add an alpine pdx-f6 which would give me 150wrms x 4 @ 14.4 volts (so a bit less at 12.5v). I would also add morel dotech ovation II 4" components which are rated 100wrms but i think would be happy with a bit more power this amp will give. the other two channels would be turned down a little to give roughly 80w rms to my stock 6.5" woofers (like the oem alpine upgrade). The centre channel and rears would have to be left to ms-8 power.

2nd setup

For this setup i would add a jl xd600/6 which would give me 60wrms x 6 @ 12.5v. So a lot lower/channel than the alpine. I would have to get some different components that are rated at 50wrms (focals/rainbows not really sure) which would have a channel each. the underseats would receive a little less power at 60wrms each. The centre vibe would be powered nicely by 60wrms. the last channel i would leave disconnected and the rears would be left to the ms-8.

So these are my two options. The first set up will give me better quality components, more power but my centre channel will be on ms-8 power. I dont think this will be too much of a problem it should still be audible? not saying that this will definately happen, but personally i dont really like a narrow front stage. The second setup i will have the front 5 channels all amplified but with less power and lower quality components. i may be wrong.

My gut feeling is to go with the first option as a) it has more power (and headroom which is good?!) and better quality components and b) IF i upgrade woofers at a later date, the alpine would have sufficient power for them.

I would be really interested to hear what u guys think of these two set ups.