[Arcadia335]

Originally Posted by dsbj

That foam is just for sound deadening. For track use, I would pull it off but leave on the engine cover. If the OP still has a piece of the foam, he can try to light it. I bet once lit, it will just smolder. That is where most the damage comes from regardless of what actually starts the fire.

yes...very true, my coils are all covered in that shit!!!!

[dbjb]

Originally Posted by Arcadia335

Not to start a science debate here but the vapors are what burns. Meth has a very low vapor pressure (like alcohol) and the vapors readily escape to the atmosphere and vapors are what ignites. Whatever...not really important i guess...

Kinda lika a log on fire...its not really the log, the heat from a flame causes pyrolysis a rapid decomposition of the material and the vapors ignite. Again, not important...but i have nothing else to do since my car isn't here.

I guess my point is simply this... if you can light a pool of meth with a match, then I would make the statement that the methanol liquid is flammable. That's all. But yes, vapor is much more flammable.

[Tzu]

I wonder if vishnu or bms will mitigate this issue by releasing a driver side fender tank. Its been talked about a lot. Seems like bms is sticking with the WW tank unfortunately, they are always the quickest to find a solution.

[Wedge1967]

I didn't dig into the overflow, but Chris and the guys from HPF can tell you the sub pan was wet with meth. Just like cooking with alcohol, you get the liquid hot enough and you'll get a flash fire from the alcohol. That fire will flash up the side of the engine and the first place and can go is under the engine cover.



I'm truly sorry to hear about your car. I don't think people realize the danger of running the meth from the WW tank. It was not designed for high meth content and truly is a safety risk. The cap doesn't fit well, the fill neck cracks, no anti slosh foam inside the tank, has an open vent. Too many failure points in this solution to even consider using it. Trust me, I didn't think anything about this until I had a fire and if you haven't had a fire then you shouldn't even be making assumptions and misleading comments here.

If you really want to argue this, find me someone that has had a fire in the past that started under the engine valve cover that wasn't running WW meth...

Originally Posted by Arcadia335

I definitely believe your story. Thanks for sharing it. I will have my guy check the sub pan. Does the windshield washer reservoir have an overflow exit?

This is why i started this discussion. I was hoping to catch more stories about the same type of fire. Thanks...

[Wedge1967]

This is very true. When Chris and I opened the hood, the fire was just getting started under the valve cover and the foam was actually burning at that point because the temp of the fire was increasing. As I hit the top of the cover, it was knocking off burning drops of plastic. If I wouldn't have got the fire put out it would have burned out just like the pictures the OP provided. If I remember correctly, the pictures look just like Overboosts pictures.

I spoke to Jeff last week and the car he watched burn the fire started in the same way, but I think they had more meth spill out and the fire spread to the WW tank.

Originally Posted by dsbj

That foam is just for sound deadening. For track use, I would pull it off but leave on the engine cover. If the OP still has a piece of the foam, he can try to light it. I bet once lit, it will just smolder. That is where most the damage comes from regardless of what actually starts the fire.

[E90Company]

I guess the moral of this whole ordeal is to NOT RUN WW METH KITS lol

[jayzF30]

I think what's happening here is oil catching on fire from valve cover leaks actually

[Arcadia335]

Originally Posted by Dr. G

Spoke to someone today who had an underhood fire as well... he was not running meth and never had a meth kit installed. Kind of scary.

Wedge?????? what about this dude...I wish this guy would jump in this discussion...it would be interesting to hear...

Either way...I appreciate everyone's thoughts...after reading...I'm out on WW Meth. Anyone wanna buy the pump?

[Arcadia335]

Originally Posted by jazze90

I think what's happening here is oil catching on fire from valve cover leaks actually

Thought about that...didn't see any oil around valve cover...my mechanic is back on Monday but I don't think he will get to it until next next week. Maybe RBs or single turbo are safer options! I'm definitely not running a WW Meth kit anymore. Too many unknowns. Last thing I want is to run my car and drive home and now my garage is on fire. I'm out...

[R1000K3]

Using the WW container is not a real bad idea as long as the following is done.

- Tap the container directly and don't use existing feeds to headlight or window washers.
-Make sure the hose fitting is well fitted in the tank. It is better to drill a bit too small hole and use a heatgun when screwing it into the tank than have a lose fit with glue and similar jokes. I didn't use a tap at all, the thread was made by the hose fitting when the plastic were heated.
- Route the meth line outside the engine bay, in the wheel well, and let the pressure hose enter the induction pipe from the front.
- Secure all meth lines and protect them with a scratch-shield. Keep in mind they must be able to move a bit without being damaged where parts flex.
- Secure the cap
- Don't use too strong meth solutions
- Remove hood and valve cover insulation material
- Heat insulate the filler neck
- Don't refill when engine turbos and DP's are friggin hot
- Keep an eye on the system
- Don't make the install yourself if you have the tumb in the middle of the hand, or rush things without thinking "safety first"

I don't say this is bulletproof and if one ore more items in the list are neglected, it is better to remove the system and make a trunk install. The general rules also applies for a trunk mount.

More hints to make a safe install are welcomed.

[Q4P]

I won't speculate but I hope everyone uderstands my reluctance to run this crap and why E85 is a much better option. I hope this works out for you OP.

[Wedge1967]

Sorry, but you really have no clue. Again, general assumptions are not what we need in a form thread because it just causes speculation. Like I said before, if you haven't had a meth fire, you really wouldn't know and making assumptions is all you can do. People need to understand the WW meth is not a safe solution and until the vendors stop selling cheap @ss solutions, more and more people will have fires. Honestly I don't care if you don't believe me. If you're car catches on fire only then you will ask yourself why you didn't move the meth tank to the boot. I think you'll find that Shiv won't be selling the WW solution for long. They are putting together a trunk mount solution and honestly I think it's about time.

Originally Posted by jazze90

I think what's happening here is oil catching on fire from valve cover leaks actually

[dbjb]

Originally Posted by Wedge1967

Sorry, but you really have no clue. Again, general assumptions are not what we need in a form thread because it just causes speculation. Like I said before, if you haven't had a meth fire, you really wouldn't know and making assumptions is all you can do. People need to understand the WW meth is not a safe solution and until the vendors stop selling cheap @ss solutions, more and more people will have fires. Honestly I don't care if you don't believe me. If you're car catches on fire only then you will ask yourself why you didn't move the meth tank to the boot. I think you'll find that Shiv won't be selling the WW solution for long. They are putting together a trunk mount solution and honestly I think it's about time.

So true.

[jayzF30]

Ok smarty pants, how do you explain engine bay fires on at least 3-4 cars I've read about that were stock! Not even an exhaust, let alone meth

Here's even a "328i"

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471819

Here's a 335"D"

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677407

What about this BMW recall?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677315

Don't just blame it on meth as its easy to blame...there can truly be issues in this engine bay

Flames can also set off in your trunk...battery has been known to cause fires as well:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=577054

So you move your meth kit in the trunk, fire starts there, do you blame meth? Of course

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Tzu

I wonder if vishnu or bms will mitigate this issue by releasing a driver side fender tank. Its been talked about a lot. Seems like bms is sticking with the WW tank unfortunately, they are always the quickest to find a solution.

BMS suggests the 49/51 mix for WW tank use, but they've always carried trunk mount tanks for those wanting stronger mixtures. The 1.5g and 2.2g hold the pump in the tank and are fairly easy to install.



Mike

[dbjb]

Originally Posted by jazze90

Ok smarty pants, how do you explain engine bay fires on at least 3-4 cars I've read about that were stock! Not even an exhaust, let alone meth

So you move your meth kit in the trunk, fire starts there, do you blame meth? Of course

His response might have been harsh but... oil fire? I really doubt that. Nonetheless, it is a discussion so I'm interested in hearing different views.

[Fernflex]

I dont know if you already answer this, but do you still meth mixtures in the tank?

Also did yo had any oil leaks coming from the valve cover, turbo oil feed or any other place?

Are the fuses from the WW meth kit damage?

[Wedge1967]

This is a thread about N54 Turbo Modifications. Every car that I'm aware of on this forum that has had the valve cover burned out in the past year has been a WW meth car. I agree other models at some point in time probably had their share of issues, but lets try to stay on topic.

Unless OP dumped oil all over the engine when it was hot which I don't this is the case... Have you ever seen a valve cover leak enough to cause a stream of oil that would cause a fire. There are many cars on the market that have major oil leaks and I have never seen a fire issue from a leaky valve cover gasket. I grew up on a farm and trust me, I've seen my share of leaks. Other than collecting dust and smelling bad as the oil smolders off the hot engine parts I have never seen one burst into flames from an valve cover oil leak.

Originally Posted by jazze90

Ok smarty pants, how do you explain engine bay fires on at least 3-4 cars I've read about that were stock! Not even an exhaust, let alone meth

Here's even a "328i"

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=471819

Here's a 335"D"

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677407

What about this BMW recall?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677315

Don't just blame it on meth as its easy to blame...there can truly be issues in this engine bay

Flames can also set off in your trunk...battery has been known to cause fires as well:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=577054

So you move your meth kit in the trunk, fire starts there, do you blame meth? Of course

[Ilma]

I think the most likely culprit has already been mentioned.

The wet belly pan is some compelling evidence.

Meth is probably leaking out the bottom of the WW tank via the seals on the WW pump.

If those are rubber seals.....then for sure meth is degenerating them.

Meth then probably pools in the belly pan and the vapours flash ignite up the side of the engine and ignite the acoustic foam under the valve cover.

Has anyone ever checked their seals at the WW pump location?

I can verify that the rubber seal on my gas can that I use to store meth has deformed completely......and it's not even in direct contact with liquid.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Wedge1967

This is a thread about N54 Turbo Modifications. Every car that I'm aware of on this forum that has had the valve cover burned out in the past year has been a WW meth car. I agree other models at some point in time probably had their share of issues, but lets try to stay on topic.

Unless OP dumped oil all over the engine when it was hot which I don't this is the case... Have you ever seen a valve cover leak enough to cause a stream of oil that would cause a fire. There are many cars on the market that have major oil leaks and I have never seen a fire issue from a leaky valve cover gasket. I grew up on a farm and trust me, I've seen my share of leaks. Other than collecting dust and smelling bad as the oil smolders off the hot engine parts I have never seen one burst into flames from an valve cover oil leak.

I have to agree on this assumtion. I have seen oil leaks in the past and some really severe, but not enough to cause a fire. I am still leaning towards assuming it is methanol vapors that pop the lid and ignited the vapor and caused it to burn...

[Wedge1967]

I'm also running a mix of E85 and love how the car feels. I'm running 92 with 5 gal of e85. The car just pulls real smooth through the full rpm range even at 18 lbs of boost. I think this is a good alt to running high % of meth. Although I still recommend spaying 50/50 to reduce intake charge temps even if you stay with a WW solution. Considering in some areas of the world you can by washer fluid that is 50/50 or near to that mix rate. But after having a fire, I highly recommend moving your meth tank to the trunk to be on the safe side.

Originally Posted by Q4P

I won't speculate but I hope everyone uderstands my reluctance to run this crap and why E85 is a much better option. I hope this works out for you OP.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by Wedge1967

I'm also running a mix of E85 and love how the car feels. I'm running 92 with 5 gal of e85. The car just pulls real smooth through the full rpm range even at 18 lbs of boost. I think this is a good alt to running high % of meth. Although I still recommend spaying 50/50 to reduce intake charge temps even if you stay with a WW solution. Considering in some areas of the world you can by washer fluid that is 50/50 or near to that mix rate. But after having a fire, I highly recommend moving your meth tank to the trunk to be on the safe side.

I am just going to point out that in the back of this vehicle there is a battery, terminals and a few other things that could cause a spark and nicely light something as well. I am not going to assume anything or make any assumptions as we don't know what really caused this but I do know that if you mention the word "meth" in the EVO/STI community which is far more advanced on the tuning front, you are almost immediately frowned upon.