[kenneth]

Great that we now have a few options hardware wise and for this I applaud all developers, we all should. Software wise though, is it silly to think that it would have been great (for enthusiasts) to see more options, such as the Vargas turbos tuned by JB, Procede, GIAC etc.

We know that RB turbos are tuned by JB, Procede (and perhaps GIAC?)

[Gossypiboma]

This thread should have never been created.

Ridiculous to try and do an apples to apples comparison this early with the Vargus setup to a setup that has spent years in the making and testing. Not to even mention the differences in fuel, dynos, gears, etc...

Irresponsible on the fact that the above statement should be blatantly obvious to even the most uninformed individual.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by kenneth

Great that we now have a few options hardware wise and for this I applaud all developers, we all should. Software wise though, is it silly to think that it would have been great (for enthusiasts) to see more options, such as the Vargas turbos tuned by JB, Procede, GIAC etc.

We know that RB turbos are tuned by JB, Procede (and perhaps GIAC?)

BMS IIRC is set to get the set #2 of the Stg 3 turbos. Pricing looks very good too. Makes me think Stg 2 is going to be a winner for the mid level guys that don't want to go all out with a Stg 3 system.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by BigBoosting

This thread should have never been created.

Ridiculous to try and do an apples to apples comparison this early with the Vargus setup to a setup that has spent years in the making and testing. Not to even mention the differences in fuel, dynos, gears, etc...

Irresponsible on the fact that the above statement should be blatantly obvious to even the most uninformed individual.

Read the first post again.

[boris]

Need to get together a Vargas TT car and a Vishnu car...


same fuel...

same transmission...

same gear...

same dyno...

same hour...



Otherwise great read. Hopefully one of these will stay open for long one of these days.

[Gossypiboma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Read the first post again.

I did and saw the same thing. You over-layed two dynos that shouldn't be compared, EVER.

With that picture you are sending the message that your ST setup spools faster than twin setups. YES, and I do mean it in that the most general sense because that is what you are going after. That is explicitly misleading.

I'm not sure of the point of this entire thread was. If the two cars you are trying to compare were equal in total turbo flow/hp capabilities then the twin setup WOULD MOST DEFINITELY spool faster. So what is your point?

You might as well stated that the the factory N55 ST spools faster than your LARGE ST turbo.

Again, ridiculous thread

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by BigBoosting

I did and saw the same thing. You over-layed two dynos that shouldn't be compared, EVER.

With that picture you are sending the message that your ST setup spools faster than twin setups. YES, and I do mean it in that the most general sense because that is what you are going after. That is explicitly misleading.

I'm not sure of the point of this entire thread was. If the two cars you are trying to compare were equal in total turbo flow/hp capabilities then the twin setup WOULD MOST DEFINITELY spool faster. So what is your point?

You might as well stated that the the factory N55 ST spools faster than your LARGE ST turbo.

Again, ridiculous thread

Clearly you didnt read carefully. My post was in response to a blatantly erroneous comparison that Tony Vargas where he claimed that his Stg3 car spools up as quickly as out single turbo. Why do you not have a problem when that comment despite being completely untrue? Please take the time to understand the point I'm making before reacting.

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

I get it 100%, just waiting for you to acknowledge that an apples to apples spool comparison is not even possible until you either put a bigger turbo on one of your ST cars, or we install a set of smaller twins to match your flow capacity, which we will. Then we can talk spool all day long if you would like.

Lol, as soon as you make a product ANY comparison is valid!

The spool diff and power delivery is the main thing consumers will use, along with price, to compare all the offerings (VTT, FFT, RB, etc.). In fact, that's why you posted the dyno, no?

I think your charts look great. I'd just focus on staying true to your mission as you've already come so far in so little time. You've got plenty of customers waiting.

2013 is going to be a great year!

[Gossypiboma]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Clearly you didnt read carefully. My post was in response to a blatantly erroneous comparison that Tony Vargas where he claimed that his Stg3 car spools up as quickly as out single turbo. Why do you not have a problem when that comment despite being completely untrue? Please take the time to understand the point I'm making before reacting.

He is stating a general concept as well and I believe you are attempting to exploit that.

Again, in general when you compare a large single turbo setup with two smaller twins, and each setup offers equal amount of flow/HP the twins will out spool the ST option every time.

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Lol, as soon as you make a product ANY comparison is valid!

The spool diff and power delivery is the main thing consumers will use, along with price, to compare all the offerings (VTT, FFT, RB, etc.). In fact, that's why you posted the dyno, no?

2013 is going to be a great year!

You are missing the fact that the turbos being compared are not equal in flow. Vargus is offering 7 diff variations of their twin setup which means they have smaller versions that will kill in the spool department. This ONE dyno is a 850hp version, not a 650hp version that Shiv is trying to make a comparison against.

THIS comment RIGHT HERE is the exact reason this thread is BS to begin with. Consumers will quickly read through the original comments and BELIEVE that any Vishnu ST setup spools faster than any Vargus Twin. BS

I cannot stand the lengths that Shiv goes to only to try and discredit his competition. If his product is superior it will stand alone in any fair comparisons, yet we get these inappropriate threads very similar to the LP fuel pump thread that was also a total eff'n lie in the end. This thread is completely misleading and has the only intention of creating drama.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

^^^^^ Good words. There is a new guy in town & the old guard is not very happy about it. Gotta love good old fashioned competition for moving things along

[NjRep335i]

Ok how about single VS. Twin Cost comparison = spool??

[jippii ensio]

Thank you for creating this thread for correcting the misinformation that was presented.

Twins vs single is a good subject since people are making wrong generalizations. You cannot generalize. For example the twin plumbing has 180 degree bend for its intake air which is one of the factors here. I'll get back with more at a better time and hope for good unbiased contributions meanwhile.

[Dave W.]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Thank you for creating this thread for correcting the misinformation that was presented.

Twins vs single is a good subject since people are making wrong generalizations. You cannot generalize. For example the twin plumbing has 180 degree bend for its intake air which is one of the factors here. I'll get back with more at a better time and hope for good unbiased contributions meanwhile.

You're on the right track.

and Big Boostin still doesn't understand the first post, so let me give it a try.
Vargas started the BS when he compared his twins to a Vishnu single and said it spooled the same. It didn't. Shiv started this thread to show a better comparison, apples to almost-as-good-as-apples-but-not-quite-apples-cuz-Shiv-has-mangoes. sorta. OK maybe that didn't help lol
Just click on the links in the first post, please! We've been going around in circles saying the same things back and forth since page 3.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Thank you for creating this thread for correcting the misinformation that was presented.

Twins vs single is a good subject since people are making wrong generalizations. You cannot generalize. For example the twin plumbing has 180 degree bend for its intake air which is one of the factors here. I'll get back with more at a better time and hope for good unbiased contributions meanwhile.

Would love to see anywhere that our plumbing goes 180 degrees. You do know 180 degress means it goes back the way it came right? Just checking. Pictures would be great, so we can all see...

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Clearly you didnt read carefully. My post was in response to a blatantly erroneous comparison that Tony Vargas where he claimed that his Stg3 car spools up as quickly as out single turbo. Why do you not have a problem when that comment despite being completely untrue? Please take the time to understand the point I'm making before reacting.

Shiv, please bring to light this erroneous post I made claiming the twins spooled as quickly as your single. It would have been on either forum, so a copy and paste is an easy one. Its about time you are held responsible for what you write as far as spinning facts, as you have not been for a very long time. Make sure I said what you are claiming I said, and not something along the lines of they spool similar, except our turbos flow quite a bit more, etc. You just said I made the claim that our stage 3 spools as fast as your single. I will anxiously await seeing where I said that. Thanks..

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Would love to see anywhere that our plumbing goes 180 degrees. You do know 180 degress means it goes back the way it came right? Just checking. Pictures would be great, so we can all see...

Maybe he meant 90*...

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by klipseracer

Maybe he meant 90*...

Well thats funny you say that, because if he meant 90 degrees, then he must know the Vishu kit also uses the same cast aluminum 90 degree elbow welded to their compressor housings outlet just like we do. The amount of just plain not paying attention, and misinformation in these threads borders on comical.

Ps, not bashing you at all. Just funny because he prob did mean 90 degrees and was trying to say its somehow going to be a restriction or hurt spool. Not knowing the product he is blindly trying to defend uses the same elbow, in the same way

[onesuperboi]

I'm rooting for VTT!!!

I'm super excited about the price. Now, I have a goal in mind.

[jippii ensio]

Air enters from the front of the car but the rear turbo inlet points to the rear, i.e. the opposite direction. Air has made a full 180 degrees turn when it enters the rear turbo.

[EJ_3]

Originally Posted by 91Octane

Im feeling so famous in here...

Originally Posted by HeavyMetalRocker

If you piss, okay! If I piss, great! If we both piss, no problem! But whatever you do... DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS!!!

I haven't had a good laugh in a while. Thank you both.

[caliguy562]

The real question is will shiv provide software support to those users of his tune who choose to go with vtt stage 3 or will they be forced to go a different route in terms of software support? Although, I've decided to go with stage 2, I would like to see if shiv could work his magic as they aren't exactly the same as RBs.

[Dave W.]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Shiv, please bring to light this erroneous post I made claiming the twins spooled as quickly as your single. It would have been on either forum, so a copy and paste is an easy one. Its about time you are held responsible for what you write as far as spinning facts, as you have not been for a very long time. Make sure I said what you are claiming I said, and not something along the lines of they spool similar, except our turbos flow quite a bit more, etc. You just said I made the claim that our stage 3 spools as fast as your single. I will anxiously await seeing where I said that. Thanks..

Yes indeed, being held accountable is very important. Here's your statement;

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Here is an overlay of the (Vishnu/FFtec) ST 58 which is the smaller turbo which is going to spool faster then there (sic) 62 meaning more torque earlier. As you can see the torque curves are near identical until 4250 where our turbos just pull away. Keep in mind, this single is maxed out between 620-640 HP where our turbos are rated for 425 each so 850 worth of flow potential. Yet they spool as fast as the 58