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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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CA Speedway Report
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10-12-2007, 01:15 AM | #67 |
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Sorry, just looked at the pictures again. Number 48 looks consistant with many modified suspension cars. I don't think this is a lot of body lean in this particular corner at the speeds you were traveling. I have seen a lot worse in the recent posts for this event.
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10-12-2007, 07:46 AM | #68 |
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Harold,
I can tell you that your car did not appear to roll at all! For those corners that I was behind you I actually made a mental note of how flat your car was staying. To me it appeared that your car was very stable and balanced. If you have a tolerable street ride quality I wouldn't touch a thing. While a sway bar might reduce body lean and camber change, it will also make your car less forgiving. Look, for example, at how quickly my stock car was getting around that track. The only place on that track that I wanted more suspension was coming out of the NASCAR Oval. The car got a touch light on those (rare) occasions when I had nobody in front of me on the oval and could go as fast as I wanted. Other than that the stock suspension and RFT combo felt great to me. Based on my one experience with this car on the track, the only three things I would feel inclined to change right now are: 1.) Put track tires on lighter wheels, 2.) Get some negative camber in front, and 3.) change oils to something that might help keep temperatures down. Obviously if I was building a dedicated track car all bets would be off. But for a nice street/track combo, this car is hard to beat.
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10-12-2007, 10:20 AM | #69 | |
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Let me know if you need a set of camber plates. We can also offer you great deals on Redline oil by the case as well. We saw a slight drop in oil temp by switching from the Redline 5w40 to the 5w30. Harold |
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10-12-2007, 10:46 AM | #70 |
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Herold, weren't you running RedLine 10w40? And 5w30 saw lower temps. Hum, now the decision is more difficult as to what to buy! What is the price per bottle/case on the Redline?
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10-12-2007, 10:50 AM | #71 |
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BMA Parts in Glendale sells them for $10-$11 a quart for the Redline 10w-40. Could be the same with their other weight oils.
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10-12-2007, 10:53 AM | #72 |
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I got the Castrol TWS 10w60 weight stuff for $11/bottle..but that was a one off dealie.
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10-12-2007, 12:33 PM | #73 | ||
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10-12-2007, 02:12 PM | #74 | |
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Redline synthetic motor oil retails at $8.95 per quart. A case of 12 with case discount would run you $96+ CA sales tax. If you are in LA, I can deliver them on weekends to save you shipping fees. Harold |
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10-12-2007, 11:07 PM | #76 | |
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How could you tell it was 299? Just a smidge back from the line at 300? That is high. the highest I ever saw was 280.
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10-12-2007, 11:55 PM | #77 | |
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You say that your "solution" is considerably better. As compared to what? The factory set up or other coilover systems? What are you capable of proving? What are you actually comparing your current set up to? What are you baseline numbers to start with? Could you elaborate on tolerant and response? Much faster, because of the suspension mods or the chip? Neutral, I would agree but how does this compare to your other track day experience with the stock suspension in terms of under/oversteer and under what track specific conditions? I think my car is very neutral and don't have sways installed. What exactly is more complicated to set up. Adjusting rebound and compression can be done by feel alone and KW provides an initial suggested setting. If you have the KW's, I am interested in knowing why they are not as tolerant since most say they are more comfortable than stock. Don't know what aspect of tolerance you are speaking. Response is good and bad in what way. Are you saying that these coilovers don't drive as smoothly as the stock sport suspension? Please don't take this posting the wrong way. I am not out to hassle you about anything, but to question your reasoning behind your post so we may all learn from your experience with your setup. It is just that your post is rather vague and ambiguous. Your anticipated comments are greatly appreciated. |
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10-13-2007, 02:03 AM | #78 |
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Only 280?
I'm guessing its probably easier in my case to push temps higher and faster due to the Procede. I needed to pit after 5-6 hard laps. 290+ was far to easy on an 80 degree day. If you due find a good oil cooler solution please let us know.
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10-14-2007, 12:20 AM | #79 |
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10-14-2007, 04:15 AM | #80 | ||||||||||
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1.) Vishnu Performance Procede 2.) KW Variant 3 coilovers 3.) H&R Anti Sway Bars 4.) Morr Alloy VS7 rims 5.) Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R tires There it is. Not a very long list... pretty simple actually. Quote:
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Obviously my "baseline" is the car, stock. And we all pretty much have a common frame of reference in that department. Stock, the car is fairly neutral with a SLIGHT propensity for understeer. Put Procede into the car and you get a solution which while faster in a straight line, doesn't correct understeer, unless of course you induce throttle modulated oversteer. By implementing the solution as I described above, I believe I've arrived at a balance where I can transfer the added power to the road effectively, keep the car level so as to avoid rubbing from the much larger rubber, and yet at the same time, keep the font/rear balance neutral so as to make the car manageable around a road course. I suppose the best I can get to as far as "proving" this is this past weekend's event at Fontana. The photos pretty much confirm this. Quote:
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10-14-2007, 11:29 AM | #81 |
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Thanks for taking the time to respond. I now understand your reasoning behing the products you chose. It appears that you made all these mods at around the same time. It is unfortunate that they weren't done independently (most don't do this) so one can get a baseline for how each variable affects the handling of the car.
I think what we can all "prove" is before and after real world data like lap times or segment times under similar conditions to evaluate whether or not a mod made a beneficial change or not. I am really curious as to the performance differences of the KW V2's vs V3's at the track as well as the differences as comparied to the PSS9's and the TCK's. I guess we will just have to all go to a track event together and do our own testing! So if I understand you correctly, your installation of the sways was mostly to prevent rubbing. And I would agree that larger sways will lessen this condition. I just want to know if the car is "faster" around the track with sways. I guess I will have to buy a set and find out. But I will wait on that until I get some more track time to evaluate the handling characteristics at various tracks while I change camber, toe, shock settings and air pressures. What are your compression and rebound settings at? I am suprised that you find them severe in nature compared to stock as most say they are more comfortable. I am sure you have them set to close to maximum and therefore stiffer than most run them at. Please post your settings so we can all understand how these settings affect handling and feel. As I have said before, my TCK's as set up with stiffer springs are not for someone looking for a cushie ride, but they are set up for maximum performance. I had PSS9's on my other car and unless the valving on these for the E9x are extremely soft, I would venture to say that you could get just as stiff of a setting on these compared to the KW's. As rebound force is adjusted, so is compression and it is not a one to one relationship. Set at full hard or one to two click back, the PSS9's are pretty agressive. Someone with E9x PSS9's will have to confirm that though. I think your choise of the V3's was a good one as it is always better to have independant control over these two settings, although almost no one ever plays with the compression once set except a few of us die hards. I am very concerned with all the "chips" (I use this word loosely because it is faster to type) in that the increased boost may cause the cars to overheat the oil and coolant at a much faster rate. We all need to keep an eye on this and report back. Again a baseline would be how long stock could you drive at the track under what conditions before limp home mode kicked in, vs where it occurs after chipping. |
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10-14-2007, 02:33 PM | #82 | ||||||||||
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10-14-2007, 06:49 PM | #83 |
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I have always saved the sway bar upgrade for last. Given my 500lb front springs and ability to adjust camber to -3.5 degrees, I think I am getting a good contact patch on the front and don't appear to have too much body lean. My pyrometer is broken so I could not record tire temps, but once fixed by next event we will see.
I believe the body lean discussion was directed to front end lean more than rear and looking at the pics there is a variety of lean angles. What logic I cant follow is how a front bar upgrade to H&R which is almost the same diameter as stock is going to provide much improved lateral stability and less front end lean. I don't understand how a significant increase in rear bar diameter will affect front body lean, but I am no expert at chassis dynamics. Just doesn't make layman's logical sense. Good discussion here though. |
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10-15-2007, 09:53 AM | #84 |
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[QUOTE=sg335;1537998]I have always saved the sway bar upgrade for last. Given my 500lb front springs and ability to adjust camber to -3.5 degrees, I think I am getting a good contact patch on the front and don't appear to have too much body lean.
QUOTE] We are leaving the sway-bar as our last upgrade as well. Sway-bars have always been a fine tuning tool for handling, but since it is a street driven car sway-bars will not add much harshness like springs well. Since the car seem to be very well balanced now, if we step up on the front spring rate, we may have step up the rears as well to keep it some what in balance. That will bring the spring rate to 500/600, could be a bit much in the rear for street duty. Then again that is speaking from past experiences with e46 M3's. |
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10-15-2007, 10:08 AM | #85 |
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I am passing on the sway for now..but for other reasons...I think both sg335 and I are running on the track without staggered wheels..this changes lots of stuff in regard to understeer/oversteer. We got rid of our understeer by the aftermarket suspensions (him TCK and me PSS9s) and the non-staggered set up. If, and that is a big if, I change out sways..I would opt for both front and rear..and just try to go up a tad larger in size...BTW, I am a proponent for larger sways normally..I have upgraded rear sways on just about every Audi owned..and upgraded the fronts on two of them.
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10-15-2007, 10:16 AM | #86 | |
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Audi's seem to like a large rear sway-bar to help it to rotate. We may just try some sway-bars and see how it affects the car's handling. |
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10-15-2007, 10:45 AM | #87 |
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I agree. Good point I forgot to mention here. I didn't drive the car on the track with the staggered stock set up to comment, but with the 18x8.5's all around with 245 40 18 Nitto NT-01's and all the other mods, the car is quite neutral.
I have played around with tire pressures and it appears that 28 to 29 lbs cold at all four corners provides me with about 40+ hot temps. This car is heavy and sees a minimum of a 10 lb increase when hot. I started with 32 cold but exceeded 40 up to 43 on some corners so I kept bleeding down until I reached 40 to 41 hot at all four corners. Later that day after the event, the cold pressures were 28-29. 40 is the recommended target hot pressure for the Nitto/Toyo R compound. |
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10-15-2007, 11:39 AM | #88 |
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With the pilot sport cups..I was at 32 front HOT and 36 rear HOT...that is what their literature says is ideal for track use with my tires. I was use to about 40 hot for RA1s.
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