[midlife]

Originally Posted by tibbz

interesting ready....thanks shiv

subscribed

[bullmrkt]

Shiv- This raises another question in my mind. How does boost pressure relate to the increased efficiency of installing catless DP's? What are the effects and how do you account for those effects in your tune?

[midlife]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I'm still learning when it comes to FI cars.
I know a bit, but I obviously don't know that much since I'm asking questions about ICs not doing anything etc.

I'm just really glad I read this because now I'll look even more forward to my custom tune whenever it happens. I'm assuming the custom tune will help a bunch with the intercooler and the DPs combined.

i do not understand how a "custom tune" for an IC and/or dp make any
more hp than the actual bolt ons do without a custom tune.

can someone explain this to me?

thanks

[Panoz]

Originally Posted by midlife

i do not understand how a "custom tune" for an IC and/or dp make any
more hp than the actual bolt ons do without a custom tune.

can someone explain this to me?

thanks

To my understanding, using them as bold-ons the cars' engine management is absolutely the same as before so the added potential (comming from these tunes) goes wasted.Thats why there is no more power. Even though you get benefits by the means of a lower engine load at all times.

Its like installing a biggyback without procede software

[Panoz]

Originally Posted by bullmrkt

Shiv- This raises another question in my mind. How does boost pressure relate to the increased efficiency of installing catless DP's? What are the effects and how do you account for those effects in your tune?

Thats a REALLY nice question

[midlife]

Originally Posted by Panoz

To my understanding, using them as bold-ons the cars' engine management is absolutely the same as before so the added potential (comming from these tunes) goes wasted.Thats why there is no more power. Even though you get benefits by the means of a lower engine load at all times.

Its like installing a biggyback without procede software

sorry guy, do not agree with you on this one:
simplest example:
1/ your car is bone stock, except for an ecu tune. say u r making 300whp.
2/ and then you add catless dps which is going to give u say 20 more whp. you now have 320 whp.
BUT the theory goes, if u "custom tune your piggyback for the dps,
instead of getting the additional 20whp, you get say 25whp.

my question is how does custom tuning a piggyback for a specific mod
get you the additional whp?

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by midlife

sorry guy, do not agree with you on this one:
simplest example:
1/ your car is bone stock, except for an ecu tune. say u r making 300whp.
2/ and then you add catless dps which is going to give u say 20 more whp. you now have 320 whp.
BUT the theory goes, if u "custom tune your piggyback for the dps,
instead of getting the additional 20whp, you get say 25whp.

my question is how does custom tuning a piggyback for a specific mod
get you the additional whp?

If what you're saying is true then why did I get the results below?

DPs with the procede didn't add any power. Actually, I lost power.
See the link:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...wnpipe+procede

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

If what you're saying is true then why did I get the results below?

DPs with the procede didn't add any power. Actually, I lost power.
See the link:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...wnpipe+procede

maybe I misread what midlife said, but it seems that custom tune for the dp's would gain your hp instead of the loss that experienced.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Sniz

maybe I misread what midlife said, but it seems that custom tune for the dp's would gain your hp instead of the loss that experienced.

Ya, he was saying that you do not need a custom tune to gain power.
I just proved that DPs alone will not gain power unless you have a custom tune to go along with the DPs.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by midlife

my question is how does custom tuning a piggyback for a specific mod
get you the additional whp?

Depends ont he modification. For DP's, you may be able to run a little more boost due to lower EGT's. With an IC, you may be able to bump up timing a little. There are just too many variable to say anything absolute though.

[BM E92]

here is a meet and join if u can...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=95439&page=5

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by boomer335i

quick question for shiv, does the v2 increase water pump pressure to compensate for the increased temps under load?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=15

[midlife]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Depends ont he modification. For DP's, you may be able to run a little more boost due to lower EGT's. With an IC, you may be able to bump up timing a little. There are just too many variable to say anything absolute though.

kindly correct me if i am wrong:
1/ we cannot physically do anything to bump timing, we rely on our ecu to
make the proper / advantageous timting adjustments correct?
2/ if i have a STOCK car with only an ecu tune mod (say proceed or juicebox, etc)
...and therefore i have X whp,
adding dps would make it X+Y whp.
what people seem to be saying is that with a custom ecu tune for dps,
the whp would now be X+Y + whatever whp gain that a dp custom tune can provide.....is this correct?

thanks

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by midlife

kindly correct me if i am wrong:
1/ we cannot physically do anything to bump timing, we rely on our ecu to
make the proper / advantageous timting adjustments correct?
2/ if i have a STOCK car with only an ecu tune mod (say proceed or juicebox, etc)
...and therefore i have X whp,
adding dps would make it X+Y whp.
what people seem to be saying is that with a custom ecu tune for dps,
the whp would now be X+Y + whatever whp gain that a dp custom tune can provide.....is this correct?

thanks

Dude...

Didn't you read my reply above?
It's not linear. You can't bring up "x+y" because it's not simple like that.

[midlife]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Ya, he was saying that you do not need a custom tune to gain power.
I just proved that DPs alone will not gain power unless you have a custom tune to go along with the DPs.

i did see your above comment, but did not quite understand.
for that reason i posted my last post above.
i understand that whp gains are not linear, but for simplicity sake i used X+Y
to try to explain my point and then wait for a counter arguement or agreement from another forum member.

btw, ....if you are saying that you had an ecu tune, then added dps, AND
did not get any whp gain - that to me would seem very strange.

maybe u added HFcatted dps and the gain was not that noticeable??
i do not know.
what i do seem to remember is that anyone who added catless dps
on top of an ecu tune gained quite a bit of power.
that is why i am installing my own catless dp when they arrive in 5 days.

btw, you are a bit of a nut in a good way.
i mean u must be the only person here who has tried proceed, and JB2, and sst and did i miss anything else??

[Mr. 5]

I personaly think that the times where people notice a difference in power increase is when they install the DPs on a stock car and not a tuned car.

I'd like to see the dynos of people that actualy increased power when adding DPs to a regualr tune. Could somebody post them?

Originally Posted by midlife

i did see your above comment, but did not quite understand.
for that reason i posted my last post above.
i understand that whp gains are not linear, but for simplicity sake i used X+Y
to try to explain my point and then wait for a counter arguement or agreement from another forum member.

btw, ....if you are saying that you had an ecu tune, then added dps, AND
did not get any whp gain - that to me would seem very strange.

maybe u added HFcatted dps and the gain was not that noticeable??
i do not know.
what i do seem to remember is that anyone who added catless dps
on top of an ecu tune gained quite a bit of power.
that is why i am installing my own catless dp when they arrive in 5 days.

btw, you are a bit of a nut in a good way.
i mean u must be the only person here who has tried proceed, and JB2, and sst and did i miss anything else??

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by midlife

kindly correct me if i am wrong:
1/ we cannot physically do anything to bump timing, we rely on our ecu to
make the proper / advantageous timting adjustments correct?
2/ if i have a STOCK car with only an ecu tune mod (say proceed or juicebox, etc)
...and therefore i have X whp,
adding dps would make it X+Y whp.
what people seem to be saying is that with a custom ecu tune for dps,
the whp would now be X+Y + whatever whp gain that a dp custom tune can provide.....is this correct?

thanks

Some of the data below is speculative and not an absolute. In fact, I still suspect that many beleifs in measured advance does not take into account any knock induced retard. It may display any adaptation but that is always after the fact and not an immediate indication. Now on to the response...

1. Correct, we cannot do anything to add timing ourselves. Shiv could add some; or rather not retard timing as much under boost. The JB2 relies solely on the DME to control timing. The DME will advance as much as it can within a range of fuels and presets. Based on what has been mentioned in the past, this seems to be around a 95 octane limit which I suspect correlates to about 1 - 2 degrees maximum over what it would run on 93 octane. If more timing could be run safely, the DME will until it hits it's set limit.

For instance, if the DME is running 15 degrees advance base timing on 93 octane and the most it will run over this base timing is 2 degrees, the most it will ever run is 17 degrees. However, the PROcede does retard timing under boost; let’s say 2 degrees here so now it is at X - 2 or 13 degrees. The most the DME would ever adapt for with higher octane fuel or mods which would allow for more timing is the 2 degrees (even though the PROcede is retarding timing, the DME still thinks it is at 15 degrees) mentioned earlier. If Vishnu, by way of a modification specific tune, added back in another degree, total timing could up be by one which would yield more power than without the tune.

2. Yes, you are correct but as mentioned by others, things are normally not cumulative which I believe was not your assertion. A custom tune would normally negate variances from engine to engine and also allow for further adjustments to utilize the gains.

For instance, adding H20/Meth injection may cool the air and yield little to measureable gains other than consistency. But add the degree or two of timing which can now safely be run (provided the H2O/Meth system is properly functioning) and you will see gains.

[e90AW335i]

I deleted my prior messages because this a thread started by Shiv and as such the Mods probably don't want any JB info in it. Please disregard posts in reply to the ones I deleted....

[Panoz]

Originally Posted by midlife

sorry guy, do not agree with you on this one:
simplest example:
1/ your car is bone stock, except for an ecu tune. say u r making 300whp.
2/ and then you add catless dps which is going to give u say 20 more whp. you now have 320 whp.
BUT the theory goes, if u "custom tune your piggyback for the dps,
instead of getting the additional 20whp, you get say 25whp.

my question is how does custom tuning a piggyback for a specific mod
get you the additional whp?

I believe its not the same case with Procede and w/o procede.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by boomer335i

Shiv, can you please respond to need for increased water pump pressure!!!!!!

Read page 47 of this:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...8&d=1165592709

I don't understand Dinan's statement about increasing the water pressure since the water pressure is already supposed to be at max based on page 47.
The harder you push this car then the faster the pump is going to get.
the pump has 4 temperature targets so maybe Dinan lowers the lowest target when past a certain RPM.

[midlife]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I personaly think that the times where people notice a difference in power increase is when they install the DPs on a stock car and not a tuned car.

I'd like to see the dynos of people that actualy increased power when adding DPs to a regualr tune. Could somebody post them?

mr 5,
your thread that you directed me to re ecu tune with dp = no gain? was very interesting
...dying to read the whole thread to see where it leads, but cannot today...

i did get through the first few pages though, and it seems you said that even though you did not register
any max whp gains on the dyno, your 1/4 mile times were better (btw, better by how much?).
is this correct??

fwiw, if i had to choose between max whp gain and a faster time at the track (which should translate
into a faster street car), i would always take the fastest times and DD acceleration.

bottom line after a few months have passed, are you happy with your dp upgrade and results?
will try to finish your thread tomorrow

thanks

[chris b.]

shiv is also releasing a map soon for us who are using dp's, so we may see better gains. who knows?