[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Potty_Pants

man you guys should take a chill pill.

40 pages and 90% is all about this and that piggy.

I want to hear about the OPs car.

ppp

Sevak has basically put his piece in, which was very incomplete and thats all we're getting.

[shifterboy45]

when the conversation becomes technical again (which is highly unlikely) maybe we can talk about the "what" and "why" of OPs situation -- possibly with the visual help of enrita..

not saying his failure is representative to the OPs -- but looking at the evidence of detonation, and its impact may prove to straighten this whole -- who's tune does what fiasco..

i would hope that this would be less of an indictment to other tunes -- and a discussion of the real important things *** how not have this happen to anyone else ***

the facts ma'am -- just the facts
Dragnet

[mithiral67]

Just got a call from Sevak, the real reason his engine blow was cause he was spiking his fuel with kitten blood. How man times do I have to tell you guys that running pure kitten blood is bad for your engine and your soul.

[enrita]

from this discussion we should all get a basic understanding in how to AVOID such failures. Money can be invested in better things than rebuilding an engine :-)

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by enrita

from this discussion we should all get a basic understanding in how to AVOID such failures. Money can be invested in better things than rebuilding an engine :-)

+100

I'm more interested in how the timing mechansims are supposed to work on these platforms.

I have both tunes anyways.

[atlharry]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

Just got a call from Sevak, the real reason his engine blow was cause he was spiking his fuel with kitten blood. How man times do I have to tell you guys that running pure kitten blood is bad for your engine and your soul.

Sounds like he was just using it as an additive... Still dangerous. Volatile stuff. I find that a after a few drops per tank, fire starts shooting out of my exhaust. Looks cool, but bad for my rear bumper.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by Potty_Pants

man you guys should take a chill pill.

40 pages and 90% is all about this and that piggy.

I want to hear about the OPs car.

ppp

Thanks for the advice. Oh, by the way, did you actually read Sevak's reasponse!?! He posted it.

The rest of the debate is about the two major piggyback tunes, and how they each work, or claim to work. And sometimes a flash tune thought is thrown in for good measure etc...

Otherwise, one of the most informative threads on tuning the N54 you will find.

So no...we won't stop.

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by enrita

from this discussion we should all get a basic understanding in how to AVOID such failures. Money can be invested in better things than rebuilding an engine :-)

spoken with wisdom earned in the fire....

its always easy to make fun of stuff that you dont understand.. when you smoke one of these babies -- i assure you, you wont be making light of it..

thank you enrita

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

spoken with wisdom earned in the fire....

its always easy to make fun of stuff that you dont understand.. when you smoke one of these babies -- i assure you, you wont be making light of it..

thank you enrita

+1 If you guys cant take advice from someone who has experienced this catastrophic engine failure, then your pretty retarted IMO...My motto is always learn from other people's mistakes and errors and try to find a way not to let it happen to you...

[enrita]

Originally Posted by Ilma

+100

I'm more interested in how the timing mechansims are supposed to work on these platforms.

I have both tunes anyways.

you can see here some timing logs on JB3 and V4
the only difference is that on JB3 i was flowing 650 ml/min and on V4 flowing now 1000ml/min meth around 70/30%.

[shifterboy45]

i can guarentee you there are people out there that have no interest in how this all works together.

but i would hope the few that are interested would keep giving some input, this so important to know before you really think about buying or installing a power adding component.

if you know the principles of engine/turbo/on-board electronic technology, you will come to the conclusion that you cant toss on a part with disregard to what it will effect -- is just not good sense.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by enrita

you can see here some timing logs on JB3 and V4
the only difference is that on JB3 i was flowing 650 ml/min and on V4 flowing now 1000ml/min meth around 70/30%.

Three of your logs seem to have a big timing dip after shifting in to 4th gear around 5500rpm. Maybe something going on there?

Mike

[adrian@vishnu]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

With regard to PCB assembly, board costs, etc, BMS has shared many of their figures with me so either they are getting things a lot cheaper or building in larger batches for a better economy of scale. But we're arguing over a few dollars here. My point was to the poster asking how BMS could do things cheaper. It's not because they are spending less on staff but because so much of the products are profit margin.

On the copying you clearly misunderstood my post. Many of these things are basic common sense items that have nothing to do with "innovation" and everything to do with getting around to doing them. It would have been great for the JB3 1.0 to include a full interface with firmware updates but it wasn't possible at that time given the resources and time line so had to be added later. That doesn't mean the JB3 copied you by making an interface. Such interfaces have existed long before the 335i did. Same for most of these "innovations". The entire argument is really silly. You blasted BMS for using a similar Tyco connector to you but then when I reminded you BMS was using Tyco connectors first you mocked it as not being an innovative idea.

Things such as boost/throttle control just represent a deeper understanding of the platform. If we knew two years ago what we know now many things would be different. There would have never been a PROcede V2 and there probably never would have been a JB3 1.2 either as both use offset tables. Holding the throttle open regardless of boost is dangerous as BMS suggested but better targeting can better control the throttle position as you suggested. In the end some throttle movement around the shift especially with automatics is required to maintain proper boost control.

Mike

Mike (Terry),

Seriously.... I just designed a PCB assembly for some other work I do that will sell in the range of 500,000 per year. Let me know when you reach 5% of that. Your numbers are wrong. I have been doing volume production designs including for companies with inhouse manufacturing capability for over 15 years. You maybe abot to argue lies with less informed, but not with me. And I have seen no evidence that you have made any surface mount PCBs in any volume before. I am not going to argue with you any more.... your numbers are wrong, you will realise this when you go to get them made.

It is easy to say stuff is common sense when you see them done. Many things are patent protected that are common sense when you think about it. The fact is that these things were not common sense until we worked them out, and you then copied us it much lower development cost. The fact remains... BMS has NEVER released any new feature or anything else that Procede has copied, and every feature Procede has released has already been or is planned to be copied by BMS.... Maybe Vishnu just have much more common sense??

Adrian

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

i can guarentee you there are people out there that have no interest in how this all works together.

but i would hope the few that are interested would keep giving some input, this so important to know before you really think about buying or installing a power adding component.

if you know the principles of engine/turbo/on-board electronic technology, you will come to the conclusion that you cant toss on a part with disregard to what it will effect -- is just not good sense.

Whats amazing is how many cars are running very aggressive setups with full bolt ons meth even upgraded turbos and know very little about whats going on.

I feel like some prerequisites should be understanding how all these things work.

We are lucky to have a smart computer willing to do most of the dirty work or have the tunes fix the end users errors.


Ive mentioned time and time again a vast majority of this community is not paying attention to the basics anymore and have relied too much on the tunes to fix the problems.

Note: this message isnt directed towards anyone in this thread directly per say.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Whats amazing is how many cars are running very aggressive setups with full bolt ons meth even upgraded turbos and know very little about whats going on.

I feel like some prerequisites should be understanding how all these things work.

We are lucky to have a smart computer willing to do most of the dirty work or have the tunes fix the end users errors.


Ive mentioned time and time again a vast majority of this community is not paying attention to the basics anymore and have relied too much on the tunes to fix the problems.

Note: this message isnt directed towards anyone in this thread directly per say.

Well my self-esteem was just shattered......

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Well my self-esteem was just shattered......

I just come from a background of tuning cars with standalone management systems more or less, so it was imperative to understand what makes everything tick.

I have many PM's over the course of the year, with guys pushing some serious limits.

I've found people that knew nothing about their meth flow, where it is, if they need a fail safe, how it works, ETC

I've found people that knew nothing about their ignition timing, never logged, dont know how, dont know what it means... yet they may have been running full bolt ons, meth, 18+ PSI

Finally, after the information is fed they cant read a datalog and dont know how to interpret if its good or bad, or what to look for.

Now im down for anyone learning something and helping people out, dont get me wrong, please..


However, I feel like understanding these essentials should have been prerequisites to "jumping in the ring"....

As Ive mentioned previously, we are lucky to have some good systems in place, either with the tunes or the stock computer, keeping us as safe as it possibly can.

On my last car there was no such thing as CPS offset for ignition, and there was no computer adding fuel automatically. No adaptations, no autotune, no bog fixing...

You told the car, "units of fuel" at each RPM, each load, and you bet your last dollar the car did what you input, and if it was bad, bye bye engine..

You told it 20 degrees ignition, it ran it, and if you knocked 100 times, it didnt pull back...

Luckily as those systems advanced they had more failsafes added for "lean fuel conditions" and excessive knock, but it never "adapted" anything, you still had to correct them yourself.

Ive only seen recently, any mention of A/F ratios which is a big thing, nobody ever mentions it up until now. Back when we were tuning that was the #1 priority. Reason nobody really mentions it is because these tunes/computers have a pretty good hold on them. Again, we are lucky.

All I want people to get from this post is to do a little more research, for your own good, cover your ass, understand how your tunes work, understand how turbo engines work, and engines in general, ignition timing, direction injection, ETC

Once you get all those things working in harmony you really get to enjoy the car, and then you know its working safely.

/rant

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Whats amazing is how many cars are running very aggressive setups with full bolt ons meth even upgraded turbos and know very little about whats going on.

I feel like some prerequisites should be understanding how all these things work.

We are lucky to have a smart computer willing to do most of the dirty work or have the tunes fix the end users errors.


Ive mentioned time and time again a vast majority of this community is not paying attention to the basics anymore and have relied too much on the tunes to fix the problems.

Note: this message isnt directed towards anyone in this thread directly per say.

You have to start some place right? I mean I am sure you were like some folks here when you first starting into modding cars...Its a learning process just like school, but I agree u should have an understanding of what your installing on your car and how it works...No one is born with the knowledge of cars and its inner workings! It sounds like probably CPE standalone tune is right up your alley ways, because from what I have seen its exactly what you described...Telling the ECU exactly what you want dialed in..

[Ilma]

Geee.......I was just kidding

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

You have to start some place right? I mean I am sure you were like some folks here when you first starting into modding cars...Its a learning process just like school...No one is born with the knowledge of cars and its inner workings!

See my next post, my intention was, its cool for people to learn...

But starting to learn after having full bolt ons, Meth, 18+ PSI, nitrous? upgraded turbos? Then you start asking about ignition timing? and Air fuel? How to read logs? how to produce logs? What they mean?

Thats like paying for a wedding and forgetting to ask the bride if she want to marry you, its simply backwards.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by enrita

you can see here some timing logs on JB3 and V4
the only difference is that on JB3 i was flowing 650 ml/min and on V4 flowing now 1000ml/min meth around 70/30%.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Three of your logs seem to have a big timing dip after shifting in to 4th gear around 5500rpm. Maybe something going on there?

Mike

The only log I see with dropped timing are the top 2 which are JB3 logs. No timing dropouts in the Procede log. What am I missing? This whole timing dropout thing is a new concept to me...please help me understand! Much appreciated!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

The only log I see with dropped timing are the top 2 which are JB3 logs. No timing dropouts in the Procede log. What am I missing? This whole timing dropout thing is a new concept to me...please help me understand! Much appreciated!

Sure, circled for you. The second one is the more concerning. Noticed same drop in his JB3 logs also.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Sure, circled for you. The second one is the more concerning. Noticed same drop in his JB3 logs also.

Thank you! I feel silly for not spotting that. For some reason I was only looking at the 'middle' pull of the first, and the second procede datalog. That definitely does seem cause for concern.