[Clap135]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

It's different conditions, different octane, developmental autotuning. Post your IAT's in your log so we can actually start to compare the "perfect" tune, to the tune you're exploiting...

What are IATs going to tell you exactly? Of mememory they ended somwhere in the high 80s low 90s at the end of that log

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by JB4135

I think Cobb is far from the prefect tune.

Lol I agree. There is no perfect tune. There's a tune that's maximizing the given conditions. The only way to know if the tune is maximizing what it can, is for it to set maximum values to stay under. How it stays under those maximum values is different for JB4, Procede, and Cobb. However, they all use the same reaction to set a maximum...Unless it never looks for a maximum and that just leaves potential on the table.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Lol I agree. There is no perfect tune. There's a tune that's maximizing the given conditions. The only way to know if the tune is maximizing what it can, is for it to set maximum values to stay under. How it stays under those maximum values is different for JB4, Procede, and Cobb. However, they all use the same reaction to set a maximum...Unless it never looks for a maximum and that just leaves potential on the table.

No, you look for maximums and back of slightly, so if conditions change, you dont go over your max setting and cause knock. Thats how tuning works.

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by Clap135

No, you look for maximums and back of slightly, so if conditions change, you dont go over your max setting and cause knock. Thats how tuning works.

Can you post some more of your logs clap?

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by Clap135

No, you look for maximums and back of slightly, so if conditions change, you dont go over your max setting and cause knock. Thats how tuning works.

EXACTLY. That is what all of these tunes are doing whether directly or indirectly. I'm sure in the summer, you will find that the Cobb's advance tables are too aggressive for the hot days and not aggressive enough for the cold days. Basically creating knock and repeated ramping up during those hot days and a lower than desireable advance level on those cold days. That's the reason FI was created. If everyone wanted to tune their car for the condition, we would all still have carbs.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by JB4135

Can you post some more of your logs clap?

Tomorrow. I have about 50-60 logs is csv format. Right now im going to bed. Tomorrow I will open up the latest one, including the one in 60 degree weather that runs a little more power then your standard map 1 log. This shit take a little time to go through and find the sections you want to graph. 25 data point for second, you do a 2-4th gear log, you got over 300 points to find that are just wot, that does not even include the bullshit before and after wot.

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

EXACTLY. That is what all of these tunes are doing whether directly or indirectly. I'm sure in the summer, you will find that the Cobb's advance tables are too aggressive for the hot days and not aggressive enough for the cold days. Basically creating knock and repeated ramping up during those hot days and a lower than desireable advance level on those cold days. That's the reason FI was created. If everyone wanted to tune their car for the condition, we would all still have carbs.

I Miss carbs.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

EXACTLY. That is what all of these tunes are doing whether directly or indirectly. I'm sure in the summer, you will find that the Cobb's advance tables are too aggressive for the hot days and not aggressive enough for the cold days. Basically creating knock and repeated ramping up during those hot days and a lower than desireable advance level on those cold days. That's the reason FI was created. If everyone wanted to tune their car for the condition, we would all still have carbs.

The jb3 tune is overly aggressive 100 percent of the time. Is cobb to aggressive for a stock stage 1 car? imo yes, I have posted this many times. Is it too aggressive for a fully bolted car, being that I am the only one sharing logs, and can't the the thing to drop timing, no it is not.

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Tomorrow. I have about 50-60 logs is csv format. Right now im going to bed. Tomorrow I will open up the latest one, including the one in 60 degree weather that runs a little more power then your standard map 1 log. This shit take a little time to go through and find the sections you want to graph. 25 data point for second, you do a 2-4th gear log, you got over 300 points to find that are just wot, that does not even include the bullshit before and after wot.

Look forward to it.

Sleep tight clap.

[Elie335i]

I'll pay everyone extra 5 or 10 bucks to get race fuel and we can shut the knock thing... much better no?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Elie335i

I'll pay everyone extra 5 or 10 bucks to get race fuel and we can shut the knock thing... much better no?

I will paypal joshboody 10 bucks, to throw pure race gas in that car and repeat the logs that are used in the first post of this entire thread. Then I will simply when all the ignorant fanbois

[McMuffin]

Damn Clap, are you on here in your dreams too?

You're starting to slur, get some rest buddy!

[Clap135]

Long day. Emergency hazmat response will do that....actually the next two weeks of my life are fucked....

Monday I was off, so I had nothing to do while the wife studied for hte cpa exam, today...not so much lol

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Long day. Emergency hazmat response will do that....actually the next two weeks of my life are fucked....

Monday I was off, so I had nothing to do while the wife studied for hte cpa exam, today...not so much lol

Damn clap you have a wife that put up with your #$%*!

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Clap135

actually the next two weeks of my life are fucked....

sounds like knock...........

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by Litos

sounds like knock...........

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by Clap135

I will paypal joshboody 10 bucks, to throw pure race gas in that car and repeat the logs that are used in the first post of this entire thread. Then I will simply when all the ignorant fanbois

I doubt it. The ignorant have already demonstrated an unwillingness to accept the facts. More factual data would just continue to get ignored and questioned.

Face it. You're not going to change their opinions. With that said, I do appreciate the info I'm getting out of this thread despite the low signal to noise ratio.

[McMuffin]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Long day. Emergency hazmat response will do that....actually the next two weeks of my life are fucked....

Monday I was off, so I had nothing to do while the wife studied for hte cpa exam, today...not so much lol

Sounds like we work in a similar field.

Originally Posted by JB4135

Damn clap you have a wife that put up with your #$%*!

Originally Posted by Litos

sounds like knock...........

[Litos]

clap, i will admit that what you're saying seems true to me because i don't have that much experience with each of the tunes on this platform.

i will continue to run JB4 until something crazy happens that is directly related to the tune (not some fluke ignition coil or fuel pump issue).

i think everyone appreciates your knowledge up until the point where everyone says "how in the hell do you 100% justify that the drops are knock" <--- that can be discussed in a million threads over the next year and probably HAS in the last 2 years - i dunno.

either way, i like what this thread has become, but i am still a JB4 supporter - for now.

[Black Gold]

Everyone, including your boy mike, agrees that avoiding timing drops is ideal. I even quoted a post where he said that.

So if timing pulls aren't good, why run a tune which can't control them? And in fact results in more timing drops than stock in similar conditions.

Call me crazy but for the life of me I do not get it....

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Wrong, knock at 46, knock at roughly 165. IT would be easier to determine if you can tell what timing that tune requested.

Timing is mapped off load so during load transitions such as shifts you'll see it ramp up and back down quickly especially if you get shift boost spikes. In the case of this log you can see boost jumped over target causing the distinctive hemisphere curve inversely proportional to the boost being over target. It's hard to look at dips and determine whether or not they are actually knock related or any number of other things which is exactly why looking at knock sensor feedback is the next step to optimizing autotuning. Right now the JB4 autotuning has a bug where it picks up DTC dips as false knock as well for example.

Mikr

[Litos]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Everyone, including your boy mike, agrees that avoiding timing drops is ideal. I even quoted a post where he said that.

So if timing pulls aren't good, why run a tune which can't control them? And in fact results in more timing drops than stock in similar conditions.

because it's FAST AAARRRRGHGHGHGH

i honestly don't know, but i hope this thread sheds some light and/or will be a learning tool for me.

my ETS IC should be installed by Sunday, but i'm still going to run Map 1 until Map 5 is finalized.