[afadeev]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Lease EV? Who's going to buy a used EV when lease is up

Who cares?
Free markets will allocate the product to the highest bidder.

What are you, commie central planner who wants to control what people buy and drive?

Originally Posted by M5Rick

as the used ones pile up more and more on forecourts

Lease return vehicles go staright to an auction.
Highest bidder buys them. Simple.

Originally Posted by M5Rick

more people are realising it's a spent force

Ha?
You seam to be hanging with the luddite crowd, bro!

Originally Posted by M5Rick

it's why Tesla's boss is getting edgy by the minute about seemingly everything.

Nothing for Tesla's boss to be edgy about.
He just bought himself a White House.

Party on, dudes!




a

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I'm on my 5th (or 6th?) EV.
Charging speed curve is not a step function. It doesn't just fall off the cliff at 80%. Its shape varies depending on the underlying battery chemistry, starting state of charge (SOC), battery temperature, on board charger OBC amperage rating and DCFC max Amp rating (and probably lots of other variables I'm forgetting).

The highest rate I've seen was ~250 Amps for brief periods of time with my 82 kWh Panasonic NCA battery. NCA battery is more energy dense and will charge faster than the NCMA. Nothing will charge faster or produce more power than NCA > NCMA > LFP:


80% is really not part of any "charging etiquette", except maybe among Ford people and when others are waiting for a charger (yet to happen to me, ever)?



Not exactly right.
Low SOC is great for max Amp charging. 10% is absolutely perfect for max starting DC charging sped!
Cold battery isn't, but realistically, you are highly unlikely to be arriving at a DC/L3 charging station with a stone cold battery.



Lets get real here - if you can't afford to fly, you are not shopping for a "spare" EV either. Or at least one shouldn't.



True, but none of the EV fast charging stations are non-profits.
All are charging what the market can bear, and all are profit centers. Including Tesla's SC network!

One might argue EV owners are getting ripped off while charging on the road.
I call that Capitalism, and the problem will solve itself through competition.



True.
Most DC EV chargers I've encountered fall into one of three (3) categories, and none provided any added amenities beyond those that were already there:

• Co-located with existing gas stations (Exxon, Wawa, etc).
• Adacent to shopping malls, hotels, or highway rest areas.
• Off major highways near a restaurant.

It makes perfect business sense if the EV charger business is managed as a stand-alone profit center!
All this talk about "EV promotion and adoption" is mostly marketing fluff - every EV charging network is managed by a profit maximizing business entity, including Tesla!



Not really true, if you think about it.
Most road-side EV charging sites tap into existing eletricty infrastructure (criteria for site selection), and cost of land/rent in the middle of nowhere is pretty reasonable (compared to more populated areas).

Tesla has been fooling around with variable EV charging pricing to maximize profit margins from its SuperChargers.
Depending on time of day (aka demand) and location, per KWh cost varies from $0.25-$0.65.
The cost of commercial electrictiy supply doesn't change that much throughout the day, if at all ;-)

a

If you are trying to argue the 20% - 80% rule about EV battery charging, then I can't take what you write seriously. And the graph you referenced has no time axis.

The EV charging market has enough diversity of providers now for competitive pricing. Kilowatts at $0.45 delivered to the charge port is an artifact of the economics envolved to implement the architecture and maintain it.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If you are trying to argue the 20% - 80% rule about EV battery charging, then I can't take what you write seriously. And the graph you referenced has no time axis.

The EV charging market has enough diversity of providers now for competitive pricing. Kilowatts at $0.45 delivered to the charge port is an artifact of the economics envolved to implement the architecture and maintain it.

When you say shit like that then I can't take what you write seriously...

Who is competing with the Tesla charge network exactly? I'm on all the Tesla groups and I've never seen a single post about how they are now using Electrify America. I know you want to hate EVs but c'mon man! When you say ridiculous shit like that it makes you sound like M5Rick.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

When you say shit like that then I can't take what you write seriously...

Who is competing with the Tesla charge network exactly? I'm on all the Tesla groups and I've never seen a single post about how they are now using Electrify America. I know you want to hate EVs but c'mon man! When you say ridiculous shit like that it makes you sound like M5Rick.

Not half as ridiculous as what you post.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

When you say shit like that then I can't take what you write seriously...

Who is competing with the Tesla charge network exactly? I'm on all the Tesla groups and I've never seen a single post about how they are now using Electrify America. I know you want to hate EVs but c'mon man! When you say ridiculous shit like that it makes you sound like M5Rick.

Teslas can charge on the CCS with a plug adapter. A few non-Tesla brands can charge on the Tesla network right now with most remaing brands adopting the NACS in 2025. Whether you read or hear about Tesla owners using the CCS is immaterial to the discussion.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Who cares?
Free markets will allocate the product to the highest bidder.

What are you, commie central planner who wants to control what people buy and drive?



Lease return vehicles go staright to an auction.
Highest bidder buys them. Simple.



Ha?
You seam to be hanging with the luddite crowd, bro!



Nothing for Tesla's boss to be edgy about.
He just bought himself a White House.

Party on, dudes!




a

Who paid you to say all that, I remember now you're the fella that likes to ride in his gas M3 at the end of the day

[gonzo]

The Musk jelly spreads on. Now including gifs!

US, check.
Canada, check.

Next:
UK.
Germany.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gonzo

The Musk jelly spreads on. Now including gifs!

US, check.
Canada, check.

Next:
UK.
Germany.

Does it go well with peanut butter?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

ive done a few small road trips in my EV9, with a few public charger stops, and over the course of the 2900 miles ive put on it in the last 3 months, ive spent $96 charging at home and at public chargers. (My home charger keeps track of what i spend at home + if i use the same brand public chargers which tend to be cheaper than the other options)

Now, here in Colorado, we do have quite a few options for chargers, so I can pick the cheaper charger when I'm out and about. (for example, the Tesla charger is about double the cost of the chargers i use.)

It can definitely be a lot cheaper than ICE, but will depend on your location.

The OP on the Mustang Mach E forum was refueling in Ohio near Cleveland. I'd bet there are plenty of charging locations for competitive pricing to deliver the electrons. The OP also stated he started with a 100% battery charged at home at 9-cents per kWh. 9 cents is a pretty low residential electric rate, so I have to question if his rate is really that low.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The OP on the Mustang Mach E forum was refueling in Ohio near Cleveland. I'd bet there are plenty of charging locations for competitive pricing to deliver the electrons. The OP also stated he started with a 100% battery charged at home at 9-cents per kWh. 9 cents is a pretty low residential electric rate, so I have to question if his rate is really that low.

My off peak pricing is just under 6 cents per kWh. and my charger/car can set charging times so it only charges off peak.

peak rates are only between 4pm and 9pm for me. so not hard to charge off peak

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Teslas can charge on the CCS with a plug adapter. A few non-Tesla brands can charge on the Tesla network right now with most remaing brands adopting the NACS in 2025. Whether you read or hear about Tesla owners using the CCS is immaterial to the discussion.

So one massive GOOD network and a bunch of smaller shitty networks no one wants to use unless they have no choice is what you consider competition? At the same time what I hear from Tesla owners is immaterial, but what YOU hear from MachE owners is legit gospel.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The OP on the Mustang Mach E forum was refueling in Ohio near Cleveland. I'd bet there are plenty of charging locations for competitive pricing to deliver the electrons. The OP also stated he started with a 100% battery charged at home at 9-cents per kWh. 9 cents is a pretty low residential electric rate, so I have to question if his rate is really that low.

The MOST I pay for electricity in FL is $0.091 the LEAST I pay is $0.026. Of course I don't get a choice of which fuel type I get my power from, but the most I pay is 9 cents and it use to be like 5 cents before they hiked prices. In NC I'm guessing it's like 11 cents (they don't show it on bill so guesstimating).

But hey my experience doesn't align with your predetermined conclusion so it's probably made up bs.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The MOST I pay for electricity in FL is $0.091 the LEAST I pay is $0.026. Of course I don't get a choice of which fuel type I get my power from, but the most I pay is 9 cents and it use to be like 5 cents before they hiked prices. In NC I'm guessing it's like 11 cents (they don't show it on bill so guesstimating).

But hey my experience doesn't align with your predetermined conclusion so it's probably made us bs.

Those are awesome rates. And I thought mine were pretty good.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

So one massive GOOD network and a bunch of smaller shitty networks no one wants to use unless they have no choice is what you consider competition? At the same time what I hear from Tesla owners is immaterial, but what YOU hear from MachE owners is legit gospel.

Up until 6 months ago the Tesla network was available only to Teslas. Data from last year (mid 2024) indicates Tesla had 58% of DCFC ports and had 60% EV market share. Non Tesla market share at 40% had 42% DCFC ports. Seems about even according to the data. If there is a lack of competition it's with the Tesla network.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If you are trying to argue the 20% - 80% rule about EV battery charging, then I can't take what you write seriously.

Dude, your ignorance can only compete with your over-confidence!

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

And the graph you referenced has no time axis.

If you can't read a graph, perhaps its time to go back and finish high school?

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The EV charging market has enough diversity of providers now for competitive pricing.

Comically laughable assertion.
US Now Has a Fast EV-Charging Station for Every 15 Gas Stations:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...5-gas-stations

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Kilowatts at $0.45 delivered to the charge port is an artifact of the economics envolved to implement the architecture and maintain it.

So for-profit Tesla is loosing money when it drops price to $0.35 / KWh? Or for-profit EVGO when it charges $0.23 per kWh?
Yeah, right, when hell freezes over!

Site the data to support your claims, or stop making sh*t up to get attention.

Thanks in advance,
a

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Who paid you to say all that,

I'm sure you were trying to say something witty.
You can do better.
Keep trying!

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I remember now you're the fella that likes to ride in his gas M3 at the end of the day

Yes, I do.
Nothing wrong with that.

Unless you were trying to imply that someone is paying me to drive the M3? Which would be awesome, BTW!

a

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If you are trying to argue the 20% - 80% rule about EV battery charging, then I can't take what you write seriously. And the graph you referenced has no time axis.

The EV charging market has enough diversity of providers now for competitive pricing. Kilowatts at $0.45 delivered to the charge port is an artifact of the economics envolved to implement the architecture and maintain it.

You shouldn't take anything he says seriously regardless.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You shouldn't take anything he says seriously regardless.

His graph is pointless without at least knowing the battery size. kW is a measure of speed, not time.

[dfox]

This thread is really just quite entertaining at this point.

It's either people who own EV's that are pretty even keeled and trying to express what they've learned by owning an EV, or people who have no EV and no intent to ever buy one telling everyone else why they're wrong.

One group has first hand knowledge, the other is just echoing what some other person on social media told them to believe.

man, what a time to be alive. The spreading of lies and the ability of so many people to be so convinced that they're right is astounding. But then I reflect on my highschool classmates and am reminded that not everyone was actually intelligent, and they're all out in this world doing stuff, posting on bmw car forums and the like.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

All I can say is, Yikes!

All I can say is, I can't get any sleep at night

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by dfox

This thread is really just quite entertaining at this point.

It's either people who own EV's that are pretty even keeled and trying to express what they've learned by owning an EV, or people who have no EV and no intent to ever buy one telling everyone else why they're wrong.

One group has first hand knowledge, the other is just echoing what some other person on social media told them to believe.

man, what a time to be alive. The spreading of lies and the ability of so many people to be so convinced that they're right is astounding. But then I reflect on my highschool classmates and am reminded that not everyone was actually intelligent, and they're all out in this world doing stuff, posting on bmw car forums and the like.

It doesn't matter who has or hasn't an EV or if they're intelligent or not, the thread is open to all to express their opinions. There is no one upmanship on here just discussion.

[eugenebmw]

SO much truth in that 10 minute clip.