[NoTempoLimitN54]

Originally Posted by Cartronics

...What...really bothers me is that when i went to purchase my oil filter from the BMW parts center, i had asked what oil they use and they said 5W-30 part synthetic. Now when i open my hood it clearly says to only use full synthetic oil only...

Greetings from a former Miami-dweller who can now afford a recent model BMW (I had to move out of Miami to make that happen).

LONG story on this one. A full explanation will be too lengthy. Search for threads on this. But in brief: As a result of a lawsuit (Castrol vs. Mobil)/trade dispute/arbitration, etc., type III motor oils that meet certain performance requirements can be labeled as "synthetic", except in Germany. Type III are very highly refined natural (dino) base stocks. Type IV are the true synthetics because the molecules are synthesized.

I think when these motor oils are labeled "full synthetic" it really means "type III base stocks or better".

The OEM BMW 5W-30 and all the Castrol Edge SPT are type III except for the "European Formula" 0W-30 "German Castrol".

I've been doing a lot of research on this lately. It seems that high quality type III motor oils are OK and it's more important to look at the performance stats for the oil (viscosity, flashpoint, HTHS, etc.)

Does anyone know and specific advantages of type IV base stocks over type III?

[BmerMeUp]

Originally Posted by Zero_09

I'm a bit confused. At the beginning of the thread everyone was saying to use the Castrol 0w30 now the Castrol Edge w/Syntec 5w40 is also LL-01. So which one do you guys? I have a 2007 328i and not sure which one I should be getting.

Thanks for asking Zero_09 (and for the great product pic) - I am now in almost the exact situation, so I thought I'd be clever and go directly to Catrol and ask them what oil I should use via their handy online tool (includes quesitons on year, make, model, mileage, environment...)
[http://www.castrol.com/castrol/Lubes...ategoryId=3240]

And this is what they gave me:

Thank you for inquiring about what oil is best for your vehicle. Based on the information you provided, your vehicle requires a special engine oil that can only be purchased at your local dealer. Please visit your local dealer to ensure that your vehicle is serviced properly.

Hunh. Must be part of the deal they have with BMW - they say BMW's are filled with their oil at the factory / dealership / etc... but won't tell you which one it is to safely get it yourself.

Bah.
-e

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54

Greetings from a former Miami-dweller who can now afford a recent model BMW (I had to move out of Miami to make that happen).

LONG story on this one. A full explanation will be too lengthy. Search for threads on this. But in brief: As a result of a lawsuit (Castrol vs. Mobil)/trade dispute/arbitration, etc., type III motor oils that meet certain performance requirements can be labeled as "synthetic", except in Germany. Type III are very highly refined natural (dino) base stocks. Type IV are the true synthetics because the molecules are synthesized.

I think when these motor oils are labeled "full synthetic" it really means "type III base stocks or better".

The OEM BMW 5W-30 and all the Castrol Edge SPT are type III except for the "European Formula" 0W-30 "German Castrol".

I've been doing a lot of research on this lately. It seems that high quality type III motor oils are OK and it's more important to look at the performance stats for the oil (viscosity, flashpoint, HTHS, etc.)

Does anyone know and specific advantages of type IV base stocks over type III?

Gr3+ has better solubility(sp) with regards to additives and is on par with PAO in many performance specs. Most euros are a blend of gr3/4/5.

[kiwi29]

I don't believe I found a good answer to this question, I use 0w40 mobil 1 oil right now, any thoughts of 5w40? Ill be trying a mixture of 5 qts. 5w40 and 2 qts full syn lucus oil stabilizer. Hopefully it'll quiet the ticking more ? And will I see any differences in performance or protection?

[hiter202]

Hey guys, I have been using BMW Castrol oil since day 1 pretty much, even when I did my own oil changes. Would Mobil 1 0W-40 work for me as a replacement for the BMW branded Castrol oil?

[jacobsed]

So when I bu BMW synthetic oil at the dealer is it type III and type IV?

[BmerMeUp]

My local dealership tech tells me they use Castrol SLX, which he even says "just gets rebranded BMW anyway." Research also confirms Castrol is BMW's OEM provider, but they don't say which bottle it is.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by jacobsed

So when I bu BMW synthetic oil at the dealer is it type III and type IV?

Nobody knows, but FYI this oil is used in the new turbo M models.

[fl335i]

Been researching this pretty hard lately. The BMW 5-30 is castrol softec from Europe. It's a good oil, no doubt. But the GC (German Castrol) which is 0w-30 and FULLY synthetic meets LL-01 and the Benz 229.5 spec also. From what I found the GC is what the BMW dealers in Europe use. USA BMW dealers use the 5w-30 softec.

You can get GC on Amazon for cheaper than oil from the BMW dealer, and save the trip and time. No brainer for me. Or scoop up some Mobil 1 0w-40 when on sale at Napa or AAP for about $5/qt. M1 is also a great oil that meets LL-01 and 229.5. From what I gather it's a crap shoot between these two top oils. I'm running GC in my 530i as of last weekend and planning to do GC on my 335i's annual service in Jan. I picked up a stash of M1 @ Napa for $5/qt about a month go so hers is on M1.

There is almost no difference in viscosity between GC and M1 either... One is a click under 40wt and one is basically at 40wt. Both are the same visc to me.... Based on the PDS IIRC the GC is like 10% thinner. For now it's GC in my bimmers, M1 her benz. Unless I come across a M1 sale again for $5/qt and I will buy a trunk full for all 3 cars and save some money.

[jacobsed]

Post up an Amazon link to the GC. I don't know exactly what you're looking at. Thanks!

Originally Posted by fl335i

Been researching this pretty hard lately. The BMW 5-30 is castrol softec from Europe. It's a good oil, no doubt. But the GC (German Castrol) which is 0w-30 and FULLY synthetic meets LL-01 and the Benz 229.5 spec also. From what I found the GC is what the BMW dealers in Europe use. USA BMW dealers use the 5w-30 softec.

You can get GC on Amazon for cheaper than oil from the BMW dealer, and save the trip and time. No brainer for me. Or scoop up some Mobil 1 0w-40 when on sale at Napa or AAP for about $5/qt. M1 is also a great oil that meets LL-01 and 229.5. From what I gather it's a crap shoot between these two top oils. I'm running GC in my 530i as of last weekend and planning to do GC on my 335i's annual service in Jan. I picked up a stash of M1 @ Napa for $5/qt about a month go so hers is on M1.

There is almost no difference in viscosity between GC and M1 either... One is a click under 40wt and one is basically at 40wt. Both are the same visc to me.... Based on the PDS IIRC the GC is like 10% thinner. For now it's GC in my bimmers, M1 her benz. Unless I come across a M1 sale again for $5/qt and I will buy a trunk full for all 3 cars and save some money.

[TomaszM]

I can recommend Castrol Magnatec 5w40 c3. It's LL-04 approved.

[jzchen]

If a 40 weight oil is shearing it might be partly due to being too thick for the tolerances in the engine. I'm still sticking to BMW oil for LL-01 applications...

[pepsih]

can someone explain me something.
On BMW official website mobil 5w30 is not in the recommended list

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

"BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30"

why???

the user manual recommend castrol oil 5w30 but that oil is not an LL01
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp..._Sept_2011.pdf

So which one should I use?

[jzchen]

Originally Posted by pepsih

can someone explain me something.
On BMW official website mobil 5w30 is not in the recommended list

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

"BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30"

why???

the user manual recommend castrol oil 5w30 but that oil is not an LL01
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp..._Sept_2011.pdf

So which one should I use?

I thought I could just go to the Mobil 1 website and find the TBN number for Mobil 1 5w-30 for you, but it is not listed there, (I think it used to be.) I think I saw it before as less than 10. The higher the number, the longer the oil is supposed to last. It resists acidity from combustion byproducts. From my "research" 10 and higher qualify. If you look at the Product Data Sheet for 0w-40 it is 11.8, which is very high... I'm still sticking with BMW 5w-30. Found it at a local dealer for ~$7.50 and allowed my BMW car club card to get 10% discount.

[SDV325]

After reading most of this thread i find it funny how very few people go to the oil manufacturers website and check what is available, more concerned about proving someone wrong.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...motor-oil-efm/

AMSOIL makes a 5w40 blend with LL-01 approval. As well another Euro blend that is LL-04 approved.

[mi_bimmer]

Mobil1 0W40 has been often recommended on here (and I am using it in my E90 N52 currently ) However, I came across the following link elsewhere on this forum. The results for M1 0W40 don't look so good.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

Sharing on this sticky since it seemed relevant to this discussion.

Please use this as another data point to make an informed choice on what's best for your car (I am not making a recommendation for/against M1.)

[jzchen]

Originally Posted by mi_bimmer

Mobil1 0W40 has been often recommended on here (and I am using it in my E90 N52 currently ) However, I came across the following link elsewhere on this forum. The results for M1 0W40 don't look so good.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

Sharing on this sticky since it seemed relevant to this discussion.

Please use this as another data point to make an informed choice on what's best for your car (I am not making a recommendation for/against M1.)

I'm afraid I only read through most of the first page, and kind of scanned the results, but I could not find the temperature at which these oils were tested. If it was at room temp, which I am assuming, I would not see how these would be accurate results as the temps oils are subjected to are rarely at room temp....

[Crusader]

There seems to be much concern about meeting BMW oil spec requirements. How many BMWs engines have failed because of lubrication issues in the last several years (like ever)? Any good synthetic oil in the proper viscosity range will do just fine. If you're going to keep the car forever, if you're seeking the absolute best change interval / whatever, go for it. But obsessing over LL1, your warranty, etc. is nonsense.

[SDV325]

Originally Posted by Crusader

There seems to be much concern about meeting BMW oil spec requirements. How many BMWs engines have failed because of lubrication issues in the last several years (like ever)? Any good synthetic oil in the proper viscosity range will do just fine. If you're going to keep the car forever, if you're seeking the absolute best change interval / whatever, go for it. But obsessing over LL1, your warranty, etc. is nonsense.

Completely disagree. Who do you think knows more about their engines, BMW or a random person giving their opinion on information most likely read on the internet. Unless specific information regarding the differences between oils at operating conditions can be mentioned, you, me or 99.9% of us should not be ones to challenge their requirements. I am a mech engr by profession, i know a little bit about fluids but no where near enough to challenge which specific grade should be followed. For example some oils will not react kindly or coat certain metallurgical components depending on their composition. The viscosity of oil is a smaller factor when compared to the design of the oil, the additives used, etc.

So many different oil manufacturers make LL-01 oils anyways, if a company cannot be bothered to do a simple test to prove that the oil is satisfactory then is it really worth it? Royal Purple and Redline comes to mind, sure they are proven race oils, but a daily driving vehicle is completely different. I was thinking about using Redline for my Subaru but after reading that they weren't even API certified it turned me off instantly. These must be two of the last oil companies out there that do not provide a specific euro blend that is suitable for LL-01, MB, VW, etc. Motul, M1, Amsoil, Castrol and others all provide euro oils LL-01 approved, surely someone can choose between one of those premium oils.

And for jzchen, oils are always tested at the operating conditions ie when the engine is at normal operating temperature. The viscosity ratings as well are not for room temperature but when the oil is at a specific range of operating temperatures.

[jzchen]

Originally Posted by SDV325

Completely disagree. Who do you think knows more about their engines, BMW or a random person giving their opinion on information most likely read on the internet. Unless specific information regarding the differences between oils at operating conditions can be mentioned, you, me or 99.9% of us should not be ones to challenge their requirements. I am a mech engr by profession, i know a little bit about fluids but no where near enough to challenge which specific grade should be followed. For example some oils will not react kindly or coat certain metallurgical components depending on their composition. The viscosity of oil is a smaller factor when compared to the design of the oil, the additives used, etc.

So many different oil manufacturers make LL-01 oils anyways, if a company cannot be bothered to do a simple test to prove that the oil is satisfactory then is it really worth it? Royal Purple and Redline comes to mind, sure they are proven race oils, but a daily driving vehicle is completely different. I was thinking about using Redline for my Subaru but after reading that they weren't even API certified it turned me off instantly. These must be two of the last oil companies out there that do not provide a specific euro blend that is suitable for LL-01, MB, VW, etc. Motul, M1, Amsoil, Castrol and others all provide euro oils LL-01 approved, surely someone can choose between one of those premium oils.

And for jzchen, oils are always tested at the operating conditions ie when the engine is at normal operating temperature. The viscosity ratings as well are not for room temperature but when the oil is at a specific range of operating temperatures.

I understand about viscosity ratings. I went to the Falex website to look up the test equipment used. Although I couldn't see a machine that looked exactly like the one they used, I found the one who's description closely matched, and found you can raise the temp. to 80 C. I don't think that is operating temperature....

[SDV325]

Originally Posted by jzchen

I understand about viscosity ratings. I went to the Falex website to look up the test equipment used. Although I couldn't see a machine that looked exactly like the one they used, I found the one who's description closely matched, and found you can raise the temp. to 80 C. I don't think that is operating temperature....

Actually that is fairly close to idle temperature for most vehicles i believe, which is around 180F. During excessively hot days or very hard and fast driving temperatures can hit upwards or 240F to 260F in most engines from skimming through on BITOG (bob is the oil guy).

[diddlkiss]

Sae 5w-30 Ll01