[eljay]

Originally Posted by nsjames

is it really double though?
you spend $300 on shocks
and then another $250 on springs, you're at 550.

perches are aluminum in the rear.
front struts have a plastic perch, and are zinc coated
no signs of rust yet and I'm here in the rust belt.
5 year warranty.

I did all the things you're doing right now to try and piece together things, with no guarantees that I didn't spend $500 and end up wit hthe wrong springs or something.

Hmm, OK, maybe I was looking at a wrong set. What is the part number on yours?
Are these the ones you have?
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-suspensi...ng/90903~st50/

Originally Posted by tlow98

Agree on the price point. The STs are an incredible value. I don't see anyone spending less $5-600 on a proper refresh of stock components even with used springs (strut mounts, bumpers) and if you're replacing every wear component (paper gaskets, spring rubbers, etc.) you'll easily be $7 bills deep.

My only question about the STs is how high do they go? Can you get them to stock ride height or mandatory lowering happening?

Looked up the specs. For RWD they can go to 14" max all around ride height. Not far where I'm at right now. Bit of a bummer that the price for the RWD kit is $890, $100 more than AWD.

For xDrive they are 0.6"-1.8"F, 0.6"-1.6"R, which would be nice as 0.6" is all I'd want, maybe 1" max in the summer.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Agree on the price point. The STs are an incredible value. I don't see anyone spending less $5-600 on a proper refresh of stock components even with used springs (strut mounts, bumpers) and if you're replacing every wear component (paper gaskets, spring rubbers, etc.) you'll easily be $7 bills deep.

My only question about the STs is how high do they go? Can you get them to stock ride height or mandatory lowering happening?

Looked up the specs. For RWD they can go to 14" max all around ride height. Not far where I'm at right now. Bit of a bummer that the price for the RWD kit is $890, $100 more than AWD.

for the XI spec they say you're gonna get .6" of drop at the max setting.

so basically sport suspension height.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by eljay

Hmm, OK, maybe I was looking at a wrong set. What is the part number on yours?
Are these the ones you have?
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-suspensi...ng/90903~st50/


For xDrive they are 0.6"-1.8"F, 0.6"-1.6"R, which would be nice as 0.6" is all I'd want, maybe 1" max in the summer.

that's the super fancy ones.

I linked the basic strut replacement ones. They're $791 direct from ST's website.

I didn't find any great deals to be had so ordered direct from ST.

A box showed up from Germany in ten days, direct from the KW factory.

[eljay]

Originally Posted by nsjames

that's the super fancy ones.

I linked the basic strut replacement ones. They're $791 direct from ST's website.

I didn't find any great deals to be had so ordered direct from ST.

A box showed up from Germany in ten days, direct from the KW factory.

OK, I'm an idiot! I totally missed your post #84 above, so I started searching myself.
$791 is not bad! I need to see what I can get them at here in Canada. With our exchange rate, duties/taxes, it may still be pricey, but interesting alternative.
And you are right that I wouldn't have to guess on getting the right springs etc. RockAuto has the standard suspension Bilstein coil springs, but not Sport ones (only the Lesjofors brand), otherwise that would be tempting.
I've never dealt with coilovers, so this may be a good opportunity to try 0.6" for winter and 1" for summer height.
Can the adjustments be done on the car both front and rear? Or would the rear spring need to be removed, for example?

[eljay]

Originally Posted by WeeAlJ

Car looks amazing, going through some tests with mine just now but having some issues, posting for info shortly.

Thank you!

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by eljay

OK, I'm an idiot! I totally missed your post #84 above, so I started searching myself.
$791 is not bad! I need to see what I can get them at here in Canada. With our exchange rate, duties/taxes, it may still be pricey, but interesting alternative.
And you are right that I wouldn't have to guess on getting the right springs etc. RockAuto has the standard suspension Bilstein coil springs, but not Sport ones (only the Lesjofors brand), otherwise that would be tempting.
I've never dealt with coilovers, so this may be a good opportunity to try 0.6" for winter and 1" for summer height.
Can the adjustments be done on the car both front and rear? Or would the rear spring need to be removed, for example?

the fronts can be adjusted while on the car.
the rears you have to take the spring pressure off, so you're dropping the rear LCA. The instructions say very specifically not to attempt adjusting the rear perch on the car. I assume you will gall the aluminum with the pressure.

honestly you're just going to set it once and then never touch it. I haven't touched mine.
The instructions are very excellent, with measurements. So just set them to the max allowed measurements and when you drop it down it's gonna be a half inch lower.

I dropped it down, adjusted it one time to my liking and then took it to the alignment place the next day. Haven't touched anything since.

I'm not here to sell you on anything.
just that I spent a month doing exactly what you're doing now, and in the end it was easiest/safest to just buy the parts designed to do what I wanted.

They will come with everything except new strut bearings. I reused my 150K mile ones without issue.

[M-technik-3]

I will probably go with the same set up, I have KW V3 in my compact and they are overkill but they were priced right last year at $1250 delivered so I snagged em and when it comes time I will put them my what ever comes next E36/E30 project.

So to drag this further off topic.

[Tambohamilton]

Not saying coilovers aren't the way to go; just thought I'd add a bit more information to the search for stock springs...

The Sachs spring catalog (wish I'd found it sooner!) has the BMW spring code referenced against their part numbers:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Of8...ew?usp=sharing
One useful nugget of info is that front spring codes D7 and D8 both refer to the same Sachs part number (993 257). I think this is decent evidence that D7 and D8 springs are actually the same part with different labels, even from BMW.

I'll search the rear spring codes soon to see if I find anything useful for them, since their coding seems to be so random for e91s...

[eljay]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Not saying coilovers aren't the way to go; just thought I'd add a bit more information to the search for stock springs...

The Sachs spring catalog (wish I'd found it sooner!) has the BMW spring code referenced against their part numbers:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Of8...ew?usp=sharing
One useful nugget of info is that front spring codes D7 and D8 both refer to the same Sachs part number (993 257). I think this is decent evidence that D7 and D8 springs are actually the same part with different labels, even from BMW.

I'll search the rear spring codes soon to see if I find anything useful for them, since their coding seems to be so random for e91s...

Thank you. This is excellent!
It is tough to find a good source.
I started looking for Euro E91 Sport package cars to see if I can find a set of springs, but have yet to find 325i/328i/330i with xdrive and sport package.
I see that rear springs from M Sport E91s have codes starting with K, like K4.

I researched weight distributions and weights and found that front springs from E92 328xi with Sport package should work as both E92 and E91 328xi have the same weight on the front axle. I cannot find anything matching for the rear from NA market. The closest is a 335d.

[dakine_surf]

Originally Posted by eljay

Thank you. This is excellent!
It is tough to find a good source.
I started looking for Euro E91 Sport package cars to see if I can find a set of springs, but have yet to find 325i/328i/330i with xdrive and sport package.
I see that rear springs from M Sport E91s have codes starting with K, like K4.

I researched weight distributions and weights and found that front springs from E92 328xi with Sport package should work as both E92 and E91 328xi have the same weight on the front axle. I cannot find anything matching for the rear from NA market. The closest is a 335d.

That is because x drive cars with the sport package did not get any suspension upgrades, the sport package on x-drive cars was purely cosmetic.

[eljay]

Originally Posted by dakine_surf

That is because x drive cars with the sport package did not get any suspension upgrades, the sport package on x-drive cars was purely cosmetic.

I know that's true for NA. But was it the same for European market?

[dakine_surf]

Originally Posted by eljay

I know that's true for NA. But was it the same for European market?

Yessir! Well I should say to the best of my knowledge... I am not 100% on LCI cars but I know my old e91 pre-lci diesel msport had standard suspension... this was in Italy where 99% are diesel. It could be different with petrol models but I really doubt it.

I should add that I traded that in for an f31 x drive msport, it has a different setup but it also has lots of ///M-Perf stuff on it so I am not sure when the change happened, could have been on lci stuff

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by eljay

Thank you. This is excellent!
It is tough to find a good source.
I started looking for Euro E91 Sport package cars to see if I can find a set of springs, but have yet to find 325i/328i/330i with xdrive and sport package.
I see that rear springs from M Sport E91s have codes starting with K, like K4.

I researched weight distributions and weights and found that front springs from E92 328xi with Sport package should work as both E92 and E91 328xi have the same weight on the front axle. I cannot find anything matching for the rear from NA market. The closest is a 335d.

For the rears you can use whichever RWD or Xd spring you want, since the back ends are identical.

For the fronts you might want to have a look at a spreadsheet I made last night:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=17
It uses measurements and a formula to calculate spring rate, then other published data (weight, spring free length, current ride height, etc) to approximate the change in ride height with other springs fitted. Untested in the real world, but gives results which are reasonable when comparing non-sport with sport springs for my car (non-sport e91 330d RWD).

Dakine is correct about the Xd and sport suspension...it doesn't exist. If you look at the sachs catalog, you'll only see non-sport ('ST') springs listed for the Xd cars... I guess that means you'd have to go aftermarket for the front springs really...so another +1 for just getting the coilovers and forgetting about it, I suppose

[eljay]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

For the rears you can use whichever RWD or Xd spring you want, since the back ends are identical.

For the fronts you might want to have a look at a spreadsheet I made last night:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=17
It uses measurements and a formula to calculate spring rate, then other published data (weight, spring free length, current ride height, etc) to approximate the change in ride height with other springs fitted. Untested in the real world, but gives results which are reasonable when comparing non-sport with sport springs for my car (non-sport e91 330d RWD).

Dakine is correct about the Xd and sport suspension...it doesn't exist. If you look at the sachs catalog, you'll only see non-sport ('ST') springs listed for the Xd cars... I guess that means you'd have to go aftermarket for the front springs really...so another +1 for just getting the coilovers and forgetting about it, I suppose

Wow.
That's some research! I love it. And thanks for sharing it.

I am taking a far simpler approach: find an E9x model that was offered with Sports suspension option that has the same (or as close as possible) weight over each front and rear axle as my 328xiT.
I scoured the brochures and weight distribution and found this:
My 328xiT with manual tranny weighs 3770lbs with a weight distribution of 50.9/49.1
Source: http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/...Wagon_2009.pdf
Front axle: 1919 lbs (870 kg)
Rear axle: 1851 lbs (840 kg)

I then looked through E90/E92/E93 brochures to find a model with the same weights.
I found E92 328xi with Automatic tranny weighs 3627 lbs with 52.9/47.1
Front axle: 1919 lbs (870 kg) - Perfect match!!
Rear axle: 1708 lbs (775 kg) - a bit too far off.
Source: http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/...Coupe_2009.pdf

The search for the rear led me to these options closest in weight
E90 335d Auto only weighs 3825 lbs with 51.0/49.0 distribution.
Rear axle: 1875 lbs (850 kg)
Source: http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/...Sedan_2009.pdf

E91 328iT with Automatic weighs 3594 lbs with 48.8/51.2.
Rear axle: 1840 lbs (835 kg)

So, 335d springs expect 10kg more weight, so would theoretically, lift the rear a bit, while 328iT A6 springs would be a tad lower having 5kg more weight over them than designed.

In summary, I should find 328iT A6 Sport package springs for the rear and 328xi E92 A6 Sport springs for the front to get OEM "Sport" package for my 328xiT.

Makes sense?

[Tambohamilton]

I see what you mean. I need to read some more to figure out if that works... My concern is that Xd front springs aren't the same length as RWD front springs, rate for rate. Maybe I'm wrong though!

[eljay]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

I see what you mean. I need to read some more to figure out if that works... My concern is that Xd front springs aren't the same length as RWD front springs, rate for rate. Maybe I'm wrong though!

Good point to research.
I just realized another flaw in my research above. Despite knowing better, I matched E92 xdrive model, which does not have Sport package springs.
So, back to the drawing board on the fronts.

[tlow98]

The front of the Xdrive spring/strut difference lies in the strut housing itself. The bottom spring perch on the xdrive is 12-15mm above what a normal RWD model would be.

So, while a sport spring in the front would normally lower a rwd vehicle 15-20mm. If you match correct weight springs your drop will only be about 5mm in the front if you switch from non sport to sport springs.


Hope this helps.

[nsjames]

and now you know why I just spent another $300 so I didn't have to deal with it.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by tlow98

The front of the Xdrive spring/strut difference lies in the strut housing itself. The bottom spring perch on the xdrive is 12-15mm above what a normal RWD model would be.

So, while a sport spring in the front would normally lower a rwd vehicle 15-20mm. If you match correct weight springs your drop will only be about 5mm in the front if you switch from non sport to sport springs.


Hope this helps.

This ^

Xd springs seem to be around 20mm shorter than their non-sport counterparts. So as tlow says you could fit a sport spring and expect very little drop from your standard ride height.

[eljay]

Originally Posted by tlow98

The front of the Xdrive spring/strut difference lies in the strut housing itself. The bottom spring perch on the xdrive is 12-15mm above what a normal RWD model would be.

So, while a sport spring in the front would normally lower a rwd vehicle 15-20mm. If you match correct weight springs your drop will only be about 5mm in the front if you switch from non sport to sport springs.


Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by nsjames

and now you know why I just spent another $300 so I didn't have to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

This ^

Xd springs seem to be around 20mm shorter than their non-sport counterparts. So as tlow says you could fit a sport spring and expect very little drop from your standard ride height.

Not only that, but look at this data from the Sachs catalogue part numbers. I looked up the size specs via https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/sachs-7530421.html

Sachs springs:
330xiT
FRONT: 993 251 (L2/L3)
Length: 350mm
Diameter: 12mm
Outer diameter: 146mm
Parameter: AC-SL

REAR: 994 473 (C6/C7) 330xi
length: 340mm
diameter: 14
outer diameter: 100
parameter: E

330iT Sport (MT chassis code) without tow bar:
FRONT: 993 256 (D5/D6)
Length: 334mm
Diameter: 11.75mm
Outer diameter: 142mm
Parameter: AC-SL

REAR: 994 484 (K2/K3) 330i
Length: 315mm
Diameter: 14.25mm
Outer diameter: 100mm
Parameter: E

To confirm xDrive spring difference, I also looked up sedan specs:
330xi E90
FRONT: 993 251 (L2/L3)
Length: 350mm
Diameter: 12mm
Outer diameter: 146mm
Parameter: AC-SL

REAR: 996 973 (C5)
Length: 340mm
Diameter: 13.75mm
Outer diameter: 100mm
Parameter: E

330i E90
FRONT: 998 450 (C4)
Length: 369mm
Diameter: 11.75mm
Outer diameter: 150mm
Parameter: AC-SL

REAR: 996 972 (C4)
Length: 342mm
Diameter: 13.5mm
Outer diameter: 100mm
Parameter: E

So, yes, there are quite a few sizing differences.

[eljay]

Originally Posted by nsjames

and now you know why I just spent another $300 so I didn't have to deal with it.

The killer here in Canada are duties and taxes and shipping.
That US$791 becomes CAD$1552 for me.
$791 + $125 (shipping to Canada) x 1.39 (exchange rate) x 1.06 (6% duty) x 1.15 (15% tax) = CAD$1552 (US$1120)

That's quite the chunk of change on what started as a maintenance item.

So, I started the hard search for E91 xi Sport springs since the B4 shock set would cost me only CAD$554 delivered (taxes and shipping in) form RockAuto.

However, given what I've learned, I realized that the shocks I was looking at are either for sedan or for E91 non-xD with Sport suspension.
So, now I doubt that even those would work for me. It sounds like there realyl is not anything OEM that can be pieced together for my scenario and I will have to look to aftermarket where the ST X is a good value, but as you can see above, it's a CAD$1000 difference between standard shock refresh and ST X for me.

[Tambohamilton]

The length is the only thing that's peculiar to Xd though; they all use the same spring perches and rubbers (someone correct me if I'm wrong there?). Eg non-X non-sport front springs are quoted as 152dia and sport non-x springs as 142dia, but both will fit the same struts and perches...I assume that also transfers over to Xd, except that the struts are shorter.

This really is where my spreadsheet comes in. Take a copy and fill in the details for your current springs, ride height and axle load, then input the details for alternatives into the subsequent sheets and see what ride heights it spits out. Like I say, it's not tested or fool-proof, but it'll point you in the right direction I'm pretty sure. Let me know if you need some guidance.