[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by malter2.0

wavetrac installed (got quotes i can email you if you'd like) is $3k+

You do the diff, subframe bushings at the same time. I got a quote from Vorshlag at 8-10 hours. So thats $600-800. No idea where you're getting this $3k+. The diff itself, the complete pumpkin, is $1900.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

installed and corner balanced good C/O are $3k+

There's no reason anyone with hand tools can't install coilovers themselves. Corner weighting + alignment costs $200-250. Come on. Besides - do M3's come corner weighted from the factory on their progressive non adjustable springs?

Originally Posted by malter2.0

subframe bushings+M3 arms is labor intensive job $2.5k+

M3 arms are bolt-on... subframe bushings are addressed above.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

software $700
installed FMIC and DP=$3k

The FMIC and DP cost $800... so who is charging you $2200 for an install of these items?

Originally Posted by malter2.0

forgot O2 simulators

I didn't forget them. You don't need them.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

raditor+labor=$1k

There is no available upgrade radiator! Link it or stop saying this!

Originally Posted by malter2.0

So for $15k we have a 450rwhp 335i on E85 that still DOES NOT have the brakes,

M3 brakes have bigger rotors but similarly horrible calipers as 335's. Both can get away with stock calipers with good rotors/race pads, but both benefit greatly from BBK's. No difference here.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

steering ratio, seats,

Steering ratio? Seriously? M3 sport seats are really no different than the sport seats in the 335.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

all the bushings, and missing all the structural rigidity supports of M3.

We replaced the bushings that matter when we did subframe bushings and M3 control arms, or did you forget?

Originally Posted by malter2.0

wow, what a deal! I just spent $15k making my 335i less reliable and costing more than equivalent year/mileage m3, which will still be superior on the track and still cost more during resale.

Oh I get it. You're one of those M3 > all people.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

Did you just say C5 is better in every way than E46 M3? I have no further comments. At all.

It has more hp, its lighter, lower cg, wider, fits bigger tires, more torque throughout the rev range, and cheaper parts/easier to make big power.

In which way is it not better?

You're just one of those silly M3 > all people, so you don't understand why people would want to work on a 335 or a 330i (like the OP). Now that we understand who and what you are, your comments make a lot more sense.

Good day sir.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by malter2.0

and missing all the structural rigidity supports of M3.

Quick question: Were you talking about the e9X M3 or the e3/46 M3?
Because the stock e9X chassis is like a piece of granite compared to the e3/46 chassis. Out on the track, you can see the flex on the e3/46 cars with their inside front wheel about 3 inches off the ground.

I help out on the Bimmerworks race team and we run an e92 335 in both sprint races and endurance races. The car has been dead reliable and only the most highly modified e46 M3s will run quicker than us. When I'm saying highly modified, I'm talking about World Challenge modified, which we are not even close to that. So, we have much less money invested and are still very close to them. Oh, we also have NO weight savings done on the car so it weighs 3,300lbs and we still wipe the track with e36 M3.

If the e9X is a turd, then what is an e36 M3 and most of the e46 m3s?

[malter2.0]

Originally Posted by DallasBoosted

You do the diff, subframe bushings at the same time. I got a quote from Vorshlag at 8-10 hours. So thats $600-800. No idea where you're getting this $3k+. The diff itself, the complete pumpkin, is $1900.

$1900+800=$2700
now add bushings too
that rounds off to $3k or more depending on labor rates quoted.

There's no reason anyone with hand tools can't install coilovers themselves. Corner weighting + alignment costs $200-250. Come on. Besides - do M3's come corner weighted from the factory on their progressive non adjustable springs?

certainly. if you don't see time as money you can also DIY the diff as well...and clutch..and engine rebuild and...

M3 arms are bolt-on... subframe bushings are addressed above.

bolt on or not you still have to pay for them and install them.

The FMIC and DP cost $800... so who is charging you $2200 for an install of these items?

It's called labor. I am including it with all my numbers.

I didn't forget them. You don't need them.

Yes, you do if you plan on passing inspection (also smog in CA).

There is no available upgrade radiator! Link it or stop saying this!

335is aux radiator with power kit software. Reading is fundamental. I'll keep on saying whatever I want until you turn blue from gasping.

M3 brakes have bigger rotors but similarly horrible calipers as 335's. Both can get away with stock calipers with good rotors/race pads, but both benefit greatly from BBK's. No difference here.

I can't go into details, but start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake

M3 has better brakes than 335. Not sure what you are arguing here?

Steering ratio? Seriously?

yes, seriously.

M3 sport seats are really no different than the sport seats in the 335.

much more support. did you ever sit in M3? i almost sold 335 for this reason alone when i bought it 2 years ago.

Oh I get it. You're one of those M3 > all people.

I drive a 335i if you forgot. There is a reason why M3 carries $20k premium. I am trying to point you out SOME of the differences.

It has more hp, its lighter, lower cg, wider, fits bigger tires, more torque throughout the rev range, and cheaper parts/easier to make big power.

In which way is it not better?

C5 is better car than E46 M3. Got it. Go buy one and enjoy it. What else you want me to tell you? That it has no feel, archaic suspension, horrid seats, interior, exterior, safety, rigidity...etc etc etc etc...

You're just one of those silly M3 > all people, so you don't understand why people would want to work on a 335 or a 330i (like the OP). Now that we understand who and what you are, your comments make a lot more sense.

Good day sir.

You are quite obviousy new here. It shows well.

[///M3NACE]

get a E36 M3....Close thread lol

[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by malter2.0

$1900+800=$2700
now add bushings too
that rounds off to $3k or more depending on labor rates quoted.

Oh I see. Now you've backpedaled off of your "$3k installed" for the diff, and then $2500++!!!! for the bushings. Glad to hear it!

Originally Posted by malter2.0

certainly. if you don't see time as money you can also DIY the diff as well...and clutch..and engine rebuild and...

DIY'ing the diff is possible, but not that easy. People on the forums here have done it. I'm going to have a shop do it.

But the 3-4 hours installing coilovers is going to take? It's a simple unbolt/rebolt job. Any monkey could do it. And on top of that, if you plan on tracking your car, having intimate familiarity with the suspension and how everything goes together will benefit you tremendously down the line.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

bolt on or not you still have to pay for them and install them.

The M3 arms cost $370 from ECS. And they install in literally 1 hour with like 2 wrenches.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

It's called labor. I am including it with all my numbers.

Cool, just so you realize we are installing better-than M3 components in most of these exercises.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

Yes, you do if you plan on passing inspection (also smog in CA).

You're clueless. The tunes set the car ready for OBD diag, so there's no need for O2 simulators to pass inspection.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

335is aux radiator with power kit software. Reading is fundamental. I'll keep on saying whatever I want until you turn blue from gasping.

Go ahead and keep saying incorrect things. That radiator does not help the 335i problem which is oil cooling. AT cars overheat pretty badly water and oil, but I have a MT. I don't know what the AT guys can do. Thats probably a lost cause.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

I can't go into details, but start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake

M3 has better brakes than 335. Not sure what you are arguing here?

The M3 does have better brakes than the 335. And both are adequate with track pads and good rotors. Both are one-piston sliding calipers though, so both need the same kind of BBK. It's like saying one person has a little less poop on his face than the other. They are both covered in poop.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

much more support. did you ever sit in M3? i almost sold 335 for this reason alone when i bought it 2 years ago.

You're entitled to your opinion. The M3 seats may well be more supportive. The 335i seats are serviceable though until I decide it needs real seats. I don't see the seats as a big problem. Maybe you need to lose weight.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

I drive a 335i if you forgot. There is a reason why M3 carries $20k premium. I am trying to point you out SOME of the differences.

Which you're trying to sell/trade for an M3, as noted in your sig. You've "seen the light" as it were. M > ALL!

Originally Posted by malter2.0

C5 is better car than E46 M3. Got it. Go buy one and enjoy it. What else you want me to tell you? That it has no feel, archaic suspension, horrid seats, interior, exterior, safety, rigidity...etc etc etc etc...

Yea that double wishbone at both ends is archaic. And the Mcpherson struts BMW's run with is top-notch.

You seem obsessed with seats. You realize Recaro and Sparco are still in business right?

The rest is just nonsense. The C5 is a faster car on the track than the E46, no question about it. You should visit a racetrack sometime and learn.

Originally Posted by malter2.0

You are quite obviousy new here. It shows well.

The difference is, I may be new, but I'm going to learn what works and what doesn't, and give good advice that will help other new people learn what works and what doesn't. You're just restating incorrect opinions and passing them off as facts. There's an M3 board for people who want to discuss M3's. Scamper off now, adults are talking.

[malter2.0]

Originally Posted by DallasBoosted

Oh I see. Now you've backpedaled off of your "$3k installed" for the diff, and then $2500++!!!! for the bushings. Glad to hear it!

It is $3k PLUS. Read.

DIY'ing the diff is possible, but not that easy. People on the forums here have done it. I'm going to have a shop do it.

Landing on the moon is also possible, but not for everyone. Again, not sure what is your point of arguing this? Either you invest time and take time away from your hobbies and family or you pay someone to do it. Pay me now or pay me later.

But the 3-4 hours installing coilovers is going to take? It's a simple unbolt/rebolt job. Any monkey could do it. And on top of that, if you plan on tracking your car, having intimate familiarity with the suspension and how everything goes together will benefit you tremendously down the line.

I'd like to see you install a set of C/O in 3-4 hours by yourself. A shop with lift and air tools gives quotes 3-4hr. Clutch is also a simple unbolt/rebolt job.

The M3 arms cost $370 from ECS. And they install in literally 1 hour with like 2 wrenches.

Yes, it cost money to buy and install. You didn't include that with your original estimate or address any of my previous comments. Now go back to your inital post and put $370+installation. Keeping adding numbers. Not sure if you noticed, but budget always has a funny way or going overboard.

Cool, just so you realize we are installing better-than M3 components in most of these exercises.

Ever seen LS1 Rx7 brake axles on the drag strip because they were't upgraded? Well, adding expensive, race derived components to your car without additional supporting mods tends to reduce realiability. Same with adding boost but not worrying about cooling. Same with adding speed, but not worrying about brakes. Same with adding power, but not worrying about driveshaft and axles. Same with ton of other stuff.

Not to mention that out of the factory package such as M3 functions a lot better as a package, then what some noob in Dallas can put together in his garage with tools on his 335.

You're clueless. The tunes set the car ready for OBD diag, so there's no need for O2 simulators to pass inspection.

Catless=need dp fix for o2 sim. Software can erase codes, but they show up immediately. You don't know your 335.

Go ahead and keep saying incorrect things. That radiator does not help the 335i problem which is oil cooling.

Gee, those cooling passages on the engine block must be cooling ice-cream between your ears?

The M3 does have better brakes than the 335. And both are adequate with track pads and good rotors.

There is degree of adequate as with everything in life. Turner race car has adequte brakes for track, so does F1 car.

Both are one-piston sliding calipers though, so both need the same kind of BBK.

BBK? Really? All it needs is set of higher bp fluid and set of track pads. Single piston is fine. You sound like a typical armchair fanboi. bbk is not necessary.

It's like saying one person has a little less poop on his face than the other. They are both covered in poop.

This is your analogy? Are you 12?

You're entitled to your opinion. The M3 seats may well be more supportive.

May well be? They are more supportive. Period. That's not a discussion, but a fact.

You seem obsessed with seats. You realize Recaro and Sparco are still in business right?

Sure, add it to your quote and see if your numbers are still the same.

The rest is just nonsense. The C5 is a faster car on the track than the E46, no question about it. You should visit a racetrack sometime and learn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

E46 M3 8:22
C5 8:40

Need more links?

E21 had more modern suspension than C5.

The difference is, I may be new, but I'm going to learn what works and what doesn't, and give good advice that will help other new people learn what works and what doesn't. You're just restating incorrect opinions and passing them off as facts. There's an M3 board for people who want to discuss M3's. Scamper off now, adults are talking.

Welcome aboard. Just sit and listen. We've seen plenty of your types around here.

[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by malter2.0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times

E46 M3 8:22
C5 8:40

Need more links?

E21 had more modern suspension than C5.

Last post on this topic to you

From your own link

7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06

[malter2.0]

You said C5, not C5 Z06. Can I also change to E46 CSL or E46 GTR?

Have you driven C5 Z06? I have quite a few times and aside power and 60hp difference from regular C5, it is largely the same trash of a car. Horrible steering, horrible feel, horrible seats, horrible shifter, horrible interior, horrible suspension, horrible fit and finish, horrible door panel gaps, horrible steering wheel. Boss owned one for a year and sold it after windshield weatherstripping flew off on the highway, mind you, on a brand new car. You need to lift up the entire car under front axle to drain the coolant. Design idiotism borders that of Audi engineers, at least the latter ones can build a quality vehicle.

So yeah, C5 is a better car than E46 M3.

[demontwinz]

what's the update on this?

[ruuver]

I own a 2ton thunderbird super coupe (now turbo), don't tell me about weight.

I started the process of weight reduction and just gave up. In my opinion not worth it unless you have a bunch of money to spend. I agree with everyone else in going with a dedicated race car or a different platform...or you could spend the money and just make more power

[335isGuy]

Wow this was a read lol. Sort of skimmed through it to be honest. And from experience. I own and race a E36 M3 with a Euro S50B32. I used to have a E46 M3 track prep'd car. Now tracking my 335is with small mods. Now I can tell already from driving the e92, the suspension geometry is light years ahead from the E36/E46. BUT.... My E36 M3 was quicker than similar prep'd GT2 cars in the CASC here in ontario. The M3 really started getting heavy E46 on. Now driving the E90 M3. I dont really like it, too heavy the V8 is a amazing motor but way to front end heavy. Im sure if I did the same mods to my 335is im sure it would be significantly quicker than my E36 M3. But what I do like about the E36 or even my E30 M3. Is the feel. The E92 mechanical grip is amazing but still to me lacks the steering feel E30-E36 M.

Now talking oil cooling on the N54. I have never had a oil temp issue on my 335is and that was pushing hard for 30 laps straight in 33C temps.

For BBK... Well Ive honestly never ran BBK. I put a brass pin in the single piston caliper. This doesnt allow the caliper to flex. I run SS Lines, fluid and PFC01 pads. Also lots of cooling.

C5 Z06. Now it a great plantform. Now im not a vette fan to be honest. But I can not take away that its a cheap fast track car. If you use it at a power track like mosport here in ontario. Your gonna pull on any E46 M3. Now I love the E46 M3, but for the $$$ and money to mod it. Put 10k into a C5 Z06 and 10k into a E46 M. The Z06 will walk the E46 M every which way due to the E46 M to be soo expensive to mod. C6 Z06 whole different league lol. just my .02cents

[demontwinz]

i will be running FBO this summer with pirelli pzero nero'. The limiting factor will be my driving skills so I guess it doesnt' matter.

It would be fun to take out seats and panels tho : )

[Amini77]

Great thread

[neilvosko]

Dear bimmerworld, you were able to drop the weight of e92 335 to 3300#s?

[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by neilvosko

Dear bimmerworld, you were able to drop the weight of e92 335 to 3300#s?

This should be easy.

With some Arc8 wheels + non-runflats, you'll save ~15lbs/corner for 60lbs weight savings total.

Get the HPF or VRSF exhaust (single 3.5" style) for a 35-40lbs weight savings over dual exhausts.

Take out your rear seat when you go to the track for 54lbs weight savings.

Get a Braille 17lb battery and mount, 32lbs weight savings.

Next get a pair of Recaro Speed seats, these are ~30lbs each instead of the factory 65lbs. They still recline and slide, so they are serviceable as DD seats. This is a 70lb weight savings.

60+40+54+32 +70 = 256lbs.

If the car started out at 3530lbs (E92 Coupe) then that would bring you to 3274lbs.

Nothing extreme and no stripping of the car.

[demontwinz]

Dallas ..

How much more weight can I save by adding CF hood and CF csl truck?

What if I took out the sunroof and replace it with a custom fit plexiglass?

[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by demontwinz

Dallas ..

How much more weight can I save by adding CF hood and CF csl truck?

What if I took out the sunroof and replace it with a custom fit plexiglass?

Hood saves about 20lbs... not all that cost effective.

The CF trunk lid is maybe 8-12lbs lighter?

The sunroof delete is best done by doing the E92 M3 carbon fiber roof. This saves about 50lbs, and out of the roof is the best place.

[neilvosko]

so 300 #s max


is it worth it?

[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by neilvosko

so 300 #s max


is it worth it?

I think if you used lighter seats (pole positions maybe?) and got aftermarket brakes F/R to save weight (turns out aluminum is lighter than iron) you could get ~400lbs out.

This would get you down around 3100lbs. Is it worth it? Here's an answer: "It depends." What do you use it for? Are you going to care if you're 1-2 seconds faster per lap at your track day? Does maximizing every little bit of the car seem fun to you? If not, then no. It's not worth it. It's a fair amount of money for ~10% weight and you probably won't notice it much on the street. For general street driving it is much easier (and cheaper) to add power.

[demontwinz]

This should be easy.

With some Arc8 wheels + non-runflats, you'll save ~15lbs/corner for 60lbs weight savings total.

Get the HPF or VRSF exhaust (single 3.5" style) for a 35-40lbs weight savings over dual exhausts.

Take out your rear seat when you go to the track for 54lbs weight savings.

Get a Braille 17lb battery and mount, 32lbs weight savings.

Next get a pair of Recaro Speed seats, these are ~30lbs each instead of the factory 65lbs. They still recline and slide, so they are serviceable as DD seats. This is a 70lb weight savings.

CF Hood saves about 20lbs...

The CF trunk lid is maybe 8-12lbs lighter

The sunroof delete is best done by doing the E92 M3 carbon fiber roof. This saves about 50lbs, and out of the roof is the best place.

60+40+54+32 +70+ 20 + 12 + 50 = 338lbs.

If the car started out at 3530lbs (E92 Coupe) then that would bring you to 3192 lbs.

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by DallasBoosted

I think if you used lighter seats (pole positions maybe?) and got aftermarket brakes F/R to save weight (turns out aluminum is lighter than iron) you could get ~400lbs out.

This would get you down around 3100lbs. Is it worth it? Here's an answer: "It depends." What do you use it for? Are you going to care if you're 1-2 seconds faster per lap at your track day? Does maximizing every little bit of the car seem fun to you? If not, then no. It's not worth it. It's a fair amount of money for ~10% weight and you probably won't notice it much on the street. For general street driving it is much easier (and cheaper) to add power.

I think you may be underestimating the lap time reduction. 400 lbs less means you can carry much more speed into the bends. which in turn means you will be much faster in the straights as your exit speed will be significantly higher. Easily 5 seconds per lap on a 2:00 lap?

But agreed that for street it makes no sense!

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by neilvosko

Dear bimmerworld, you were able to drop the weight of e92 335 to 3300#s?

I don't know about Bimmerworld, but the Bimmerworks e92 335 weighs 3300lbs with a gutted interior and light weight wheels.
Then, we had to put in the fuel cell (a hybrid system used in conjunction with the stock fuel tank) and of course the safety cage, which added a lot of weight.
The 3300lbs was WITH the sunroof. We now took it out, but haven't put it back on the scales yet.