[Blown284]

Originally Posted by Torqu3

Just about everyone on the Facebook group is running this stuff with phenomenal results. We also have an active discount code for Facebook group members.

What facebook group? Can you send me a link? I have a few of the quart things but haven't tried it yet in my car or my truck (F350 7.3 diesel). Can you speak more to the results people are seeing? Thanks.

[Torqu3]

Originally Posted by Blown284

What facebook group? Can you send me a link? I have a few of the quart things but haven't tried it yet in my car or my truck (F350 7.3 diesel). Can you speak more to the results people are seeing? Thanks.

Here is what i posted just before you "From what I have seen, everyone running the Hot Shot's Secret Diesel Extreme(Here's some info: https://www.hotshotsecret.com/diesel-extreme/) and/or EDT(More info: https://www.hotshotsecret.com/edt-ev...sel-treatment/) see a 2-3mpg increase(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), less smoke on deleted cars(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), more power from the butt dyno(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), and quieter injectors(I have tested this myself, and can confirm). On top of that it has been known to clear injector codes on more than one occasion. "

Facebook group is https://www.facebook.com/groups/NABDOG/

Make sure you answer the question when you request to join, or your request won't be accepted. This is to cut back on spam. I moderate that group and you will see me on it frequently.

[Blown284]

Thank you very much. I am already in that group.

Originally Posted by Torqu3

Here is what i posted just before you "From what I have seen, everyone running the Hot Shot's Secret Diesel Extreme(Here's some info: https://www.hotshotsecret.com/diesel-extreme/) and/or EDT(More info: https://www.hotshotsecret.com/edt-ev...sel-treatment/) see a 2-3mpg increase(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), less smoke on deleted cars(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), more power from the butt dyno(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), and quieter injectors(I have tested this myself, and can confirm). On top of that it has been known to clear injector codes on more than one occasion. "

Facebook group is https://www.facebook.com/groups/NABDOG/

Make sure you answer the question when you request to join, or your request won't be accepted. This is to cut back on spam. I moderate that group and you will see me on it frequently.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Torqu3

Gee, some of us aren't that fortunate. A lot of places have shit quality diesel, regardless of the pump you go to.

From what I have seen, everyone running the Hot Shot's Secret Diesel Extreme(Here's some info: https://www.hotshotsecret.com/diesel-extreme/) and/or EDT(More info: https://www.hotshotsecret.com/edt-ev...sel-treatment/) see a 2-3mpg increase(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), less smoke on deleted cars(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), more power from the butt dyno(I have tested this myself, and can confirm), and quieter injectors(I have tested this myself, and can confirm). On top of that it has been known to clear injector codes on more than one occasion.

You can say just fuel is good, and sure it's "good enough", but until you try an additive, don't knock it. Or are you scared you'll be satisfied

You're talking to the wrong guy. Both times I used additive something went wrong with the engine. BMW, Mercedes, VW, etc. recommend against aftermarket additives.

If you believe additives will help, find some real data and show it to us. In the scientific world, anecdotal information doesn't cut it.

Cheers,

PL

[Torqu3]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

You're talking to the wrong guy. Both times I used additive something went wrong with the engine. BMW, Mercedes, VW, etc. recommend against aftermarket additives.

If you believe additives will help, find some real data and show it to us. In the scientific world, anecdotal information doesn't cut it.

Cheers,

PL

Follow those links and you'll find the real data. That's the whole reason I included the links. It was tested on a domestic diesel engine, so probably not good enough for some people. Most of the results I discuss were found in the real world. But the science is there too. Any other requests?

[PerfectAce]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

You're talking to the wrong guy. Both times I used additive something went wrong with the engine. BMW, Mercedes, VW, etc. recommend against aftermarket additives.

If you believe additives will help, find some real data and show it to us. In the scientific world, anecdotal information doesn't cut it.

Cheers,

PL

I'm not looking to start anything, but I can't help but notice that you're arguing that anecdotal evidence is not good enough to support the use of fuel additives but then using anecdotal evidence yourself to support the idea that it's bad for use in a BMW engine.

I am sincerely interested in your point of view that diesel additives may be harmful. What, other than BMW & MB's recommendation, do you know about that indicates these products are harmful to our cars' fuel system? I'm generally against taking people's word for it, so if BMW recommends against something, I'd like to know why they recommend against it. They may in fact be recommending against it because they can't vouch for a product that isn't theirs, whose efficacy they haven't tested, and thus can't recommend, out of an abundance of caution, their use because 1) it's a unknown to them and 2) they stand by the design and quality of their own product and it would look bad to tell their customers to use an aftermarket product to possibly improve the long-term function or reliability of it.

[Nadir Point]

You guys are probably paying too much for fuel adds. My 335D has been running with 2-stroke oil at a treat rate of 1oz/gal as a fuel additive for about 5 years. The emissions equipment has been absent for a couple years, but the suspension, injectors and maintenance items like filters, tires, brakes, etc. is the only stuff on the car not factory original, including the belts - now at 125k miles. The injectors were replaced as part of the CBU repair because they were dirty, not worn.

The injection pump is normally the 1st thing to go when fuel issues arise.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by PerfectAce

I'm not looking to start anything, but I can't help but notice that you're arguing that anecdotal evidence is not good enough to support the use of fuel additives but then using anecdotal evidence yourself to support the idea that it's bad for use in a BMW engine.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Originally Posted by PerfectAce

I am sincerely interested in your point of view that diesel additives may be harmful. What, other than BMW & MB's recommendation, do you know about that indicates these products are harmful to our cars' fuel system? I'm generally against taking people's word for it, so if BMW recommends against something, I'd like to know why they recommend against it. They may in fact be recommending against it because they can't vouch for a product that isn't theirs, whose efficacy they haven't tested, and thus can't recommend, out of an abundance of caution, their use because 1) it's a unknown to them and 2) they stand by the design and quality of their own product and it would look bad to tell their customers to use an aftermarket product to possibly improve the long-term function or reliability of it.

Disadvantages of fuel additives are virtually never discussed. I consider fuel additives to be more marketing than science.

I would really like to accept the "advantages" of additives, but my truth detector requires more.

Cheers,

PL

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by Torqu3

Follow those links and you'll find the real data. That's the whole reason I included the links. It was tested on a domestic diesel engine, so probably not good enough for some people. Most of the results I discuss were found in the real world. But the science is there too. Any other requests?

Already went to the links. No data. Just salesmanship. Sorry.

PL

[Torqu3]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Already went to the links. No data. Just salesmanship. Sorry.

PL

WTF. I distinctly remember seeing data on those links like 2 weeks ago. No clue where it went. I'm in the process of trying to hunt it down.

EDIT:

Here is a direct link to the diesel extreme data: https://www.hotshotsecret.com/wp-con...l-FULL-min.pdf


And a direct link to the EDT data:
https://www.hotshotsecret.com/wp-con...liner_6.7L.pdf

It took a little digging, but the data was there.

[nicklockard]

Originally Posted by Torqu3

WTF. I distinctly remember seeing data on those links like 2 weeks ago. No clue where it went. I'm in the process of trying to hunt it down.

EDIT:

Here is a direct link to the diesel extreme data: https://www.hotshotsecret.com/wp-con...l-FULL-min.pdf


And a direct link to the EDT data:
https://www.hotshotsecret.com/wp-con...liner_6.7L.pdf

It took a little digging, but the data was there.

I reviewed the executive summary in the first link. The summary data seems to indicate that the test result was not statistically significant at any reasonable confidence interval. I have assumed that the +/- column is showing population standard deviation for the n = 3 replicates. If instead the authors are listing range in the +/- column, the the CI would be higher, but not raise up to the 90% threshold most reports would require to be considered statistically meaningful.

Having said that, I have tested a few additives in the past, and some demonstrably DO increase power output. I can't speak to fuel economy gains because I did not test that.

[Torqu3]

Originally Posted by nicklockard

I reviewed the executive summary in the first link. The summary data seems to indicate that the test result was not statistically significant at any reasonable confidence interval. I have assumed that the +/- column is showing population standard deviation for the n = 3 replicates. If instead the authors are listing range in the +/- column, the the CI would be higher, but not raise up to the 90% threshold most reports would require to be considered statistically meaningful.

Having said that, I have tested a few additives in the past, and some demonstrably DO increase power output. I can't speak to fuel economy gains because I did not test that.

I can't attest to that. Not my data, not my product. But there is the data that was requested. Feel free to interpret however you like.

I can definitely attest to the fuel mileage, because I have tested it.

[Pierre Louis]

Sorry, not my idea of anything valid in the "data" link. Two trucks only. Only number of regenerating cycles measured. This is what I call salesmanship. Its almost comical as anecdote is made to look scientific.

Imagine if any other scientific research was performed on only 2 subjects what the reaction would be.

Its good wishful thinking. Would love to have a magic diesel potion to use on my own cars....

What really is going on here is that a company won't share their "real" data on the product(s) with the public (i.e. from their own development or the company that came up with the product- internal data). Haven't seen this more than once or at all if criteria are used for validity.

PL

[dmanb2b]

I have been using hot shots for 40k miles now, injectors are quieter at 110k miles than they were at 65k miles and not a single injector code since I started using it.

[tryingtobebest]

Originally Posted by Nadir Point

You guys are probably paying too much for fuel adds. My 335D has been running with 2-stroke oil at a treat rate of 1oz/gal as a fuel additive for about 5 years. The emissions equipment has been absent for a couple years, but the suspension, injectors and maintenance items like filters, tires, brakes, etc. is the only stuff on the car not factory original, including the belts - now at 125k miles. The injectors were replaced as part of the CBU repair because they were dirty, not worn.

The injection pump is normally the 1st thing to go when fuel issues arise.

There is more to it... Synthetic, Conventional, Brand...

Cant really find what Tdiwyse is using!?

[3wis3m3n]

Originally Posted by nicklockard

I reviewed the executive summary in the first link. The summary data seems to indicate that the test result was not statistically significant at any reasonable confidence interval. I have assumed that the +/- column is showing population standard deviation for the n = 3 replicates. If instead the authors are listing range in the +/- column, the the CI would be higher, but not raise up to the 90% threshold most reports would require to be considered statistically meaningful.

Having said that, I have tested a few additives in the past, and some demonstrably DO increase power output. I can't speak to fuel economy gains because I did not test that.

i can actually be on board with that assessment. power output wasnt as much as one would expect to be but it was enough to make a different in the system operation. now, mind you that i have stock everything. nothing in my car is tuned or modded. although to me, the additives didn't work immediately after you pour it in but rather it takes few cycles in order for me to feel slight differences in my cars behavior. also, i think the type of fuel that you add with the additive do matter the most.

[3wis3m3n]

Originally Posted by tryingtobebest

There is more to it... Synthetic, Conventional, Brand...

Cant really find what Tdiwyse is using!?

and fuel..
type of fuel that you put in the tank along with addition of additive matter the most.

[3wis3m3n]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Sorry, not my idea of anything valid in the "data" link. Two trucks only. Only number of regenerating cycles measured. This is what I call salesmanship. Its almost comical as anecdote is made to look scientific.

Imagine if any other scientific research was performed on only 2 subjects what the reaction would be.

Its good wishful thinking. Would love to have a magic diesel potion to use on my own cars....

What really is going on here is that a company won't share their "real" data on the product(s) with the public (i.e. from their own development or the company that came up with the product- internal data). Haven't seen this more than once or at all if criteria are used for validity.

PL

i think what they are trying to make sense is that fuel additives are not a complete solution or as you say 'magic potion' for our cars. rather they are just personal preference or even a preventative measures in certain aspect of deliverance to our cars.
additives certainly not for everyone but also it doesn't prove that it makes your car worst. because if it does, then everyone that have used additives on their cars would have a broken down bmw by now and you will see a whole bunch of negative comments coming out of that camp about additives.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by 3wis3m3n

i think what they are trying to make sense is that fuel additives are not a complete solution or as you say 'magic potion' for our cars. rather they are just personal preference or even a preventative measures in certain aspect of deliverance to our cars.
additives certainly not for everyone but also it doesn't prove that it makes your car worst. because if it does, then everyone that have used additives on their cars would have a broken down bmw by now and you will see a whole bunch of negative comments coming out of that camp about additives.

Yes, agreed, but there are still some interesting caveats:

- the placebo effect exists
- the biggest ingredient in additives is diesel fuel which by itself will increase the "mileage" infinitesimally. Claiming improved "fuel economy becomes technically and legally correct. Notice its always "up to" as a disclaimer. Like weight loss pills that fill the stomach slightly would decrease appetite etc. but not to any meaningful degree.
- proprietary information is not published about ingredients and effects to any quantitative extent.
- a friend who was a chemical engineer and looked up all of the MSDS sheets of products he sold for his private business - he found that many products after they had created a market share were later changed (diluted) to the point of being ineffective.

My personal preference is not to waste my time, money, or have throw-away plastic bottles to go into landfills unless I get a real benefit and it is cost effective. Improving my engine's longevity from 300,000 miles to 310,000 miles, for example, will not do.

Cheers,

PL

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by 3wis3m3n

i think what they are trying to make sense is that fuel additives are not a complete solution or as you say 'magic potion' for our cars. rather they are just personal preference or even a preventative measures in certain aspect of deliverance to our cars.
additives certainly not for everyone but also it doesn't prove that it makes your car worst. because if it does, then everyone that have used additives on their cars would have a broken down bmw by now and you will see a whole bunch of negative comments coming out of that camp about additives.

Certainly the same argument can be used, as has been in the past for "lubricity". If lubricity was such a problem in diesel fuel, where were all the fuel pump failures??? Only the early Bosch CP4 pumps seemed to have any chance of mass failure, and that didn't really happen either, did it.

PL

[Nadir Point]

[JTC1]

What would we do without Pierre Louis telling us about his disdain for fuel additives?

Hotshots EDT is what....$16 for 16 oz. Basically an extra dollar every fill-up.

While I agree that there may be some placebo effect to how well additives really work, I will never understand why some people get so bent out of shape over people spending what amounts to an extra $1 a week (for me) for something they feel will/may benefit their car.

Its worth it for any amount of peace of mind someone may derive from using it even if it may be false peace of mind.