[LSx]

Originally Posted by weehe126

We can argue about the extent of damage that detonation/preignition does to a piston or bearing. But im pretty sure that we can all agree that in this case, oil starvation was the cause. Also, if someone has evidence that a bearing has failed due to detonation in a N55 engine please post it. Otherwise this is a clear cut case of oil starvation.

I absolutely agree.

Originally Posted by JETmn

I beg to differ as it takes very little time for the pitting to start. Forged pistons hold up better, but these are cast pistons. If detonation would have caused this problem there will be pitting.

You can beg to differ all you want, it doesn't mean you're right...engines are what I do for a living, I assure you that I am not guessing or basing my statements off what I read somewhere on the internet.

Cast pistons will usually fail at the ring lands before there has been enough detonation cycles to begin visibly pitting the pistons or chambers. Once the ring lands break, oil consumption goes way up and the owner will realize something is wrong. Forged pistons will not usually fail at the ring lands and so they go for a long time under detonation and will exhibit a lot of pitting.

Originally Posted by JETmn

As the above poster stated, it is quite obvious this is from low oil pressure as the car was 3 quarts low. The BMW firmware is also very aggressive in pulling timing and the stock AP maps are very conservative.

I never said it wasn't, I only said you were wrong about the pistons pitting up before rod bearings show wear on the upper shell.

[Walker16]

I spoke the the SA at the dealership today. He said after the tear down of the bottom end they an clearly see that the rod bearing is completely destroyed. He said there is no sign of it except for pieces of metal everywhere inside the engine. They were also able to see into a few of the cylinders and they show no signs of any damage.
He has been in contact with the warranty company and a rep will be out in the next day or so to inspect the car but from his conversations, the warranty company is wanting to attempt to repair the engine instead of replacing it.

BMW is finally on my side and arguing that replacing the engine should be the only option because without a complete tear down of everything there is no way they can ensure that all the metal from the damaged bearing would be removed.

Now i guess it is up to the warranty company to decide if they want to fix or replace the engine or try and put blame back on BMW and argue that the damage is a result of the service i received during the vanos recall..

With a tear down finally done and the dealership even agreeing that the bearing is what failed and besides the metal floating everywhere in the engine there is no other damage besides the bottom end I even more certain that this was all a result of low oil after the recall work was done. Now it will come down to the warranty company using the evidence provided my FFTEC to try and prove the cause of the failure. Ill keep everyone posted as soon as I find out more info..

[Dozhdbog]

A full teardown, inspection, clean, and rebuild will end up costing close to what installing a new engine would be.

[fdawg4l]

Originally Posted by Walker16

Now it will come down to the warranty company using the evidence provided my FFTEC to try and prove the cause of the failure. Ill keep everyone posted as soon as I find out more info..

I hate to even mention it, but it's possible and somewhat plausible that both parties will deny coverage and leave you in the lurch.

The insurance company may say this was due to owner negligence and cite the tune. And it'll be up to you and a judge to prove otherwise.

The dealership will deny coverage because you drove 500 miles and cite their own experts (e.g. the dude who didnt put oil in it) and wash their hands of it. And it'll be up to you again to prove to a judge otherwise.

Lawyer up, man. Get all communication in writing until this is done. I hate lawyers too but once you start communicating with lawyer letter head, things generally start to move quickly, in my experience.

[Walker16]

Originally Posted by fdawg4l

I hate to even mention it, but it's possible and somewhat plausible that both parties will deny coverage and leave you in the lurch.

The insurance company may say this was due to owner negligence and cite the tune. And it'll be up to you and a judge to prove otherwise.

The dealership will deny coverage because you drove 500 miles and cite their own experts (e.g. the dude who didnt put oil in it) and wash their hands of it. And it'll be up to you again to prove to a judge otherwise.

Lawyer up, man. Get all communication in writing until this is done. I hate lawyers too but once you start communicating with lawyer letter head, things generally start to move quickly, in my experience.

what tune?

and the "dude that didnt put oil in it" was there technician so if they admit that there tech failed to fill the car with oil (which is the most likely cause) then they take responsibility and the repair is on them.

I already have the warranty company saying they will repair the car but i'm going to fight that and push to get the whole engine replaced

[JETmn]

Make sure they replace the oil cooler too. I have seen too many engines go a 2nd time from shavings being stuck in the oil cooler and eventually make it through there.

[jwzimm]

With the oil system contaminated with metal shavings there are a lot of other things that will need to be replaced. The oil also lubricates and cools the turbo which has very tight bearing tolerances. Metal shavings are almost certain to have damaged the bearings in that. Also, did they go as far as to remove the rod caps and inspect the bearings for the other cylinders? What about the crankshaft bearings. These are all directly lubricated with engine oil and subject to damage when the oil is contaminated. What about the top end? Vanos Solenoids? Cam shafts? Lifters? Valvetronic actuator?

Basically, everything that the engine oil touches is suspect in that engine. Short of a COMPLETE tear down and rebuild (with new parts) there is no way this engine is salvageable. Do not accept anything less than a replacement engine.

Also, if you use your aftermarket warranty company they are likely to source a used engine for the replacement. If BMW was covering this you would get a new remanufactured engine. That alone would make me push hard to make BMW cover this.

[hetzle]

Originally Posted by FrankiE90

Believe it or not bmw does follow the forum. - when u post picts
with ur plates it identifies u. Fyi.

Sorry to derail the thread but I feel like this statement has the potential to spread misinformation- do you have any proof of this? Ex. past members getting screwed out of warranty coverage due to pictures of mods being posted

[FrankiE90]

Originally Posted by hetzle

Sorry to derail the thread but I feel like this statement has the potential to spread misinformation- do you have any proof of this? Ex. past members getting screwed out of warranty coverage due to pictures of mods being posted

Let's say I had a buddy that lemon'd his car and the bmw police pulled pages
from the forum to work against him. Full pages with pictures and pm replies. These are public forums and if you can be identified with pictures and statements - I would think it could be used against you in a court of law. Can a fellow lawyer on the forum confirm that.

I'm not hear to scare any members but be aware of your privacy.
-it's happen. that's why I posted the statement. Can it be argued that the picts are being used in other forms- yes. Can it be pulled for evidence - yes.

[loesch]

I'm seriously thinking the oil level sensors in these cars are inaccurate. I recently did an oil change and I was definitely a quart low. Literally the same day I checked the oil level and it said full. I have a habit of checking the level probably every couple thousand miles. Every time I've ever checked it, except once, it has been exactly at the full line. One time I pulled out of the garage and almost immediately got a low oil light. I checked the level and it was at the lowest marker on the gauge. After adding a quart or so it went perfectly to the full line again. No way I guessed that right on.

If all else fails and everybody plays the blame game and screws you, just do a bad ass 2JZ swap and make something crazy out of it.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by FrankiE90

Let's say I had a buddy that lemon'd his car and the bmw police pulled pages
from the forum to work against him. Full pages with pictures and pm replies. These are public forums and if you can be identified with pictures and statements - I would think it could be used against you in a court of law. Can a fellow lawyer on the forum confirm that.

I'm not hear to scare any members but be aware of your privacy.
-it's happen. that's why I posted the statement. Can it be argued that the picts are being used in other forms- yes. Can it be pulled for evidence - yes.

If they can reasonably pinpoint your words and username on a public forum to the correspondence between you and BMW - yes, that's entirely usable in court. Not to mention, IP addresses are logged here, giving additional evidence; that is, if they're able to procure that from a moderator.

The chances of it being someone else with a near-identical problem in that region are pretty close to 0 at that point. The public nature of these forums is important to remember.

[wiskerbisskit]

Lawyer up. Bottom line at the end of the day is you had work done at the dealership, they failed to put enough oil in the vehicle, you drove for only 500 miles and boom! Wether it was faulty or working oil level sensor does not matter, the did not add enough oil to car when it left period.

[Walker16]

wel i have heard back from the warranty company and there saying that they will cover the cost to repair the components in the bottom end (crank, bearings ect...) If i want to get a new engine they will put the money towards that but will not pay for the whole thing.
I have started to contact a few lawyers in the area that deal with auto dealer fraud and im going to go after the dealership for the full cost of the replacement.

Looking back i should have done this in the first place like a few people suggested but i figured i would be able to handle this on my own and now that I have talked to a lawyer I should have never let them know that i had the aftermarket warranty since they use that as a way to push blame away from them.

Hopefully I will have more info in the next day or so and the threat of a lawsuit will push them to accept responsibility....

[Jsoboti]

Crazy story man, please keep us updated

[FL335]

Originally Posted by Walker16

wel i have heard back from the warranty company and there saying that they will cover the cost to repair the components in the bottom end (crank, bearings ect...) If i want to get a new engine they will put the money towards that but will not pay for the whole thing.
I have started to contact a few lawyers in the area that deal with auto dealer fraud and im going to go after the dealership for the full cost of the replacement.

Looking back i should have done this in the first place like a few people suggested but i figured i would be able to handle this on my own and now that I have talked to a lawyer I should have never let them know that i had the aftermarket warranty since they use that as a way to push blame away from them.

Hopefully I will have more info in the next day or so and the threat of a lawsuit will push them to accept responsibility....

GL, brother. I am surprised BMW NA has not been any help at all. Are you a CCA member, if you maybe the is a heavy hitter in your chapter that can help?

[JETmn]

Good luck man. I had a similar experience with a tire shop that just broke one of my wheels and won't take any responsibility. You expect the business to do the right thing and it sucks when they don't. Mine is small apples compared to this, hopefully it turns out well in the end!

[Walker16]

op updated!

[FL335]

It's unbelievable all of the BS you have had to go through. Fuck that dealership! What a raw deal. What about car insurance? i know it sounds crazy but another from member had a lot of broken things covered by his ins. carrier....just a thought. The bottomline is that this is a dealer issue after "fixing" whatever it was you went in there for....damn! Good luck.

[Walker16]

op has been updated....

[jwzimm]

It looks like they left it outside in the rain!!

I am going to stand by my original statements that you need to have the entire engine replaced. With a lack of proper lubrication that thing is a time bomb now. Add to it the shitshow dealer work and I wouldn't trust that thing as a paperweight.

[FL335]

Damn...sorry man. That is the worst dealer I have ever heard of. I would let everyone know how shitty they are. GL w/ the lawsuit. Keep us in the loop.

[JETmn]

Sounds like you need to start a Facebook campaign against them like the guy that had the WRX that the dealership crashed. They were going to F him over, but they ended up giving him a new car after it went viral.