[iaknown]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

We tested the boost solenoid with no issues and from what we have seen, (at least on this forum), I havent seen anyone else post a before and after dyno on porting the wastegate.

EDIT: just giving you guys some data to look at, if there is anything else, just let me know.

Very interesting! I need to dig up my before/after piggyback logs....I certainly don't remember anything near a 10 psi drop at any point from this mod.

But at any rate, it seems the turbos can handle the increased pressure with a reliable tune, which is always good news....

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
...
These engines are sheduled so that back pressure is practically all the time at least 15psi higher than boost pressure.
Recirculation needs that pressure difference to work.
So 15-20psi higher back pressure is still ok.
...

Curious on this. I didn't figure out how to log the exhaust manifold pressure (turbine drive pressure) until early last year. Attached is a log I have on my work computer from mid summer when I was playing with the external waste gate control (this one was still using a combination of the internal and external wastegates) and before I started letting the drive pressure go higher and also before reducing some of the intake pressure drop losses.

Is this type of pressure relationship different than what you were describing, or is it similar to what you've measured? The HP turbo seems to operate pretty efficiently through it's rpm range, and LP turbo starts out at a lovely 1:1 ratio at the switchover rpm, but soon starts becoming less efficient as the rpm's go up.

[DWR]

Regarding the question about EBP to boost ratio, like so many other things, it depends. Also, should point out that is a different question than absolute EBP or boost, as those are typically mechanical limits.

Essentially, the question is about pumping efficiency and net air flow. As the EPC becomes relatively larger than boost, there are times during the overlap of camshaft exhaust and intake events when backflow can occur. This becomes more of an issue as overlap increases. OE diesel camshafts have little overlap, so the ratio is not as critical. Competition diesels may have greater overlap, due to longer event durations. In this case, the ratio is more critical, but often other modifications on the exhaust side including turbine sizing etc. keep it in check and lower.

I have struggled to get specifications on the camshaft in our engines. IF ANYONE CAN GET ME CAMSHAFT SPECS, I can provide a more detailed and specific answer.

[zackz]

@ tuikku: First, thanks for your contribution, very interesting information.

As you do, I'm making my own softwares, and I'm testing the fuel system limits.

What about the stock in tank fuel pump? Does it do the job at high power levels?

If i'm right you own a pre lci 535d with solenoid injectors? So slightly bigger in tank and hp pumps as 335d's, in stock form...

How much fuel pressure are you asking now? Problem is that the stock Hp rail fuel pressure sensor can read max 1800 bars.

[tuikku]

Originally Posted by zackz

@ tuikku: First, thanks for your contribution, very interesting information.

As you do, I'm making my own softwares, and I'm testing the fuel system limits.

What about the stock in tank fuel pump? Does it do the job at high power levels?

If i'm right you own a pre lci 535d with solenoid injectors? So slightly bigger in tank and hp pumps as 335d's, in stock form...

How much fuel pressure are you asking now? Problem is that the stock Hp rail fuel pressure sensor can read max 1800 bars.

Hi
Tank pump is same in almost every model, it is ok.
Yes solenoid, my cp-pump is bigger 95 => 75.
Rail pressure sensor reads 2000bar, but I am using 1800, solenoid injectors can not handle more, piezo´s can.
My cp-pump is in it limit now, if I give more fuel, pressure collapse.

[tuikku]

Originally Posted by DWR

Regarding the question about EBP to boost ratio, like so many other things, it depends. Also, should point out that is a different question than absolute EBP or boost, as those are typically mechanical limits.

Essentially, the question is about pumping efficiency and net air flow...

No overlap in these modern cdi`s.
No benefit with different timing or tuning, have tried.
And no need for that. Basically stock engine block, only stiffer valve springs, stress plate and steel bolts down side, MB 320cdi (OM648) gives ~520hp from rear wheels, and ~100hp more next summer. So no need to do more than put suitable turbo´s under bonnet.

Yes, deep inside me, I am a Mercedes man.
If it is allowed, I would like some day post some pictures here from my MB douple turbo project.

[tuikku]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

....
Is this type of pressure relationship different than what you were describing, or is it similar to what you've measured? The HP turbo seems to operate pretty efficiently through it's rpm range, and LP turbo starts out at a lovely 1:1 ratio at the switchover rpm, but soon starts becoming less efficient as the rpm's go up.

Recycling works only in "part throttle positions", in every day driving.
Basically there are two limitations to recycling ending, fuel rate and rpm.
No matter, which limiter fills first, egr ventil shuts down.
The change smaller to bigger turbo begins +2000rpm and ends 2800-3000 rpm, depending the situation.
Harder you push the pedal, earlier ecu tries to make the change and shut the egr.
Smaller turbo has two jobs, produce back pressure enough for recycling and wake up the bigger one, after that ecu turns it aside.
In my car, I have forced the change earlier. I am trying to have as much low end torq as possible.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by tuikku

No overlap in these modern cdi`s.
No benefit with different timing or tuning, have tried.

The definition of overlap depends upon the lift at which it is measured. There is more than 1 standard method. Diesels can have overlap that is negative degrees. So, are you saying that you have experimented with duration and lobe center separation or just advance and retard?

Originally Posted by tuikku

Yes, deep inside me, I am a Mercedes man.
If it is allowed, I would like some day post some pictures here from my MB douple turbo project.

To me, anything with a turbo is cool. 2 turbos is double cool. Please share.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by tuikku

Smaller turbo has two jobs, produce back pressure enough for recycling and wake up the bigger one, after that ecu turns it aside.
In my car, I have forced the change earlier. I am trying to have as much low end torq as possible.

Sometimes I saw dips in the boost curve at the transition, when the car was stock. Remapping helps. I have always thought the transition timing was not right. Interesting to hear you have made an adjustment to bring the LP turbo on sooner.

[tuikku]

Originally Posted by DWR

The definition of overlap depends upon the lift at which it is measured. There is more than 1 standard method. Diesels can have overlap that is negative degrees. So, are you saying that you have experimented with duration and lobe center separation or just advance and retard?...

Yes, yu are right, I don´t understand first, sorry.

I have tried more lift + intake open earlier and shut down later + exhaust open earlier and shut down later. It was quite a long time ago, I don´t remember degrees or anything any more and the paper is certainly lost.
No benefit anyway.

Porting head gives more flow.
MB head flows a bit better as stock as BMW one lightly ported (+10%)

[tuikku]

Originally Posted by DWR

Sometimes I saw dips in the boost curve at the transition, when the car was stock. Remapping helps. I have always thought the transition timing was not right. Interesting to hear you have made an adjustment to bring the LP turbo on sooner.

Vacuum system is not so stable.
No leak is allowed.
I have had difficulties to make mine system work properly, everything is changed now. this car is not in very good shape (+250 000 miles)...

[DWR]

Originally Posted by tuikku

Yes, yu are right, I don´t understand first, sorry.

I have tried more lift + intake open earlier and shut down later + exhaust open earlier and shut down later. It was quite a long time ago, I don´t remember degrees or anything any more and the paper is certainly lost.
No benefit anyway.

Porting head gives more flow.
MB head flows a bit better as stock as BMW one lightly ported (+10%)

Knowing where you wish the torque to peak, I agree. These engines will rev higher, safely. So, the peak torque could be moved, if higher HP with lower torque was desired. So far,no one has followed Alpina's lead in the tuning community. Some of this has to do with experience, some has to do with technical reasons.

Also, agree the head flow could be better, and in fact it was in the earlier engines. Valves sizes have been reduced for various reasons, but mostly to keep good mixing at low loads/revs and to avoid variable valve actuation (and turbos can compensate for these deficiencies). And again, it is a cost benefit analysis, where these things make a much bigger difference in a gas engine than a diesel.

Complements to you. I'm getting a picture of someone who is very thorough and persistant. Those are admirable qualities.

[zackz]

Originally Posted by tuikku

Hi
Tank pump is same in almost every model, it is ok.
Yes solenoid, my cp-pump is bigger 95 => 75.
Rail pressure sensor reads 2000bar, but I am using 1800, solenoid injectors can not handle more, piezo´s can.
My cp-pump is in it limit now, if I give more fuel, pressure collapse.

Thanks, in fact 335D and LCI 535D have a 700 mm3/rev hp pump, yours is a 900 mm3/rev.

About the in tank pumps, E6X diesel pump is bigger than E9X ones, at least 10 ltr/h more.
That's why 335D is a little restricted compared to LCI 535D, and some people change the in tank pump with the 535d model.

About the rail pressure sensor, the sensor conversion map ends at 1800 bars for 5V in the 335d ecu, have you tested a modded map?

[zackz]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

what DDE are you running the EDC16 or 17?

Sorry yes, we are talking about EDC16 on E6X 535D and E9X 335D

[DWR]

tuikku, just curious if your engine has swirl flaps?

[tuikku]

.
Bob is right.
The only real difference in programs from our cars is that urea-additive feature. Read/write on the table is not so big thing.
But what comes to technic - I am not so sure any more.
There could be, I do not hope that, but could be.
Because it means that I have been barking the wrong tree all the time ...


Current tank pump can be found for instance from realoem.




CP-pumps and where do they last, I have a good picture in my mind.
The latest ~1000nm/400hp 530d I remapped last Sunday ...
I have done very many variations and built also for myself, so maybe I do not need any advice for that.

And same to rail pressure sensor, all of 1600 bar sensors reads up to => 2000bar, you need to do your homework better. Don´t need any advice for that either.

Thank you.

[tuikku]

Originally Posted by DWR

tuikku, just curious if your engine has swirl flaps?

No, earlier owner had taken the away.

But my earlier 530d had them.

Real good invention, if they only lasts.
Too difficult for me to explain the working pricipals, but I hope, that you can help about this ?
They gives more air flow speed at low engine rpm´s => better swirl => better burn.
Better burn means, that you can put more fuel and get more low end torq, which is a great thing.

[tuikku]

.
My Mercedes ....
And that damn BW

Exhaust manifold.
There are many my own thoughts and ideas in it.
"Generation II"
Welded by the professional - not me.







My car
Big intercooler
Big transmission oil cooler
Big cr-pump with mods
Big injectors, custom made
Big exhaust pipe upgrade
Transmission upgrade + Quaife
Air suspension and brakes upgrade
No dpf, cat, egr, maf, lambda ....
Jus "basic" engine with couple of pressure and temperature sensors.








... And that miserable BW





Next summer setup building has begun ...
First pics, bigger turbo adjusting.

[tuikku]

.
"Generation I" manifold.
Then I thought, that this is the best version ...

[petey_highboost]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
My Mercedes ....
And that damn BW

Exhaust manifold.
There are many my own thoughts and ideas in it.
"Generation II"
Welded by the professional - not me.







My car
Big intercooler
Big transmission oil cooler
Big cr-pump with mods
Big injectors, custom made
Big exhaust pipe upgrade
Transmission upgrade + Quaife
Air suspension and brakes upgrade
No dpf, cat, egr, maf, lambda ....
Jus "basic" engine with couple of pressure and temperature sensors.








... And that miserable BW





Next summer setup building has begun ...
First pics, bigger turbo adjusting.

What are your thoughts about the US e320 CDI MB's (05-07 I believe) prior to the bluetec models

[zackz]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Gotcha, the US got the EDC17CP09 thats password locked, no flashing over the ODBII for us..

Yeah Bob you're right, I should have precise that we are using EDC16 for the EU market, it's a shame for US customers to be not able to flash over OBD plug...

[zackz]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
Bob is right.
The only real difference in programs from our cars is that urea-additive feature. Read/write on the table is not so big thing.
But what comes to technic - I am not so sure any more.
There could be, I do not hope that, but could be.
Because it means that I have been barking the wrong tree all the time ...


Current tank pump can be found for instance from realoem.




CP-pumps and where do they last, I have a good picture in my mind.
The latest ~1000nm/400hp 530d I remapped last Sunday ...
I have done very many variations and built also for myself, so maybe I do not need any advice for that.

And same to rail pressure sensor, all of 1600 bar sensors reads up to => 2000bar, you need to do your homework better. Don´t need any advice for that either.

Thank you.

tuikku, don't be pissed off, I'm not trying to give you advices, or bother you or anything else...

We are just talking about the possible mods, you seem to know your shit, no doubts about that, that's why I'm asking you some things, about which upgrades are working or not for you...

However, I think I'm allowed, as all of us, to bring some information if it can help other members

About the rail pressure sensor, had never stated that what you say is wrong, that was just to know if the stock edc16 rail pressure sensor was able to read 2000 bars with a modded conversion map, that's all...

EDC17 equipped bmw cars seem to have a 2000 bars rail pressure sensor in stock form for you guys in the US