[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

I have a set of professional scales for corner balancing my car. If you ever make it out here you're welcome to put your car on them. My car's current weight with full tank is 3620 (without me in it). There's always a cold beer in the fridge for you as well.

Thnx. Very tempting :-)

Also, thanks for the weight info. That is lighter than I expected. Unless you've done some significant weight saving measures?

The curb weight I was basing things off was 3825, and then taking into account weight subtraction/additions. But I may be a little "heavy" in my estimate.

http://www.autobytel.com/bmw/335d/2011/specifications/

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

...
Also this week I started trying to optimize the ST4 "Lite" DDE from Jarek in my system (was previously working on the new 2.5 updated version). That is looking promising. Low/mid range output is much better with the ST4L. Upper rpm's are pretty close, as the ST4 Lite appears to be more aggressive with DDE controlled fueling in regards to holding the AFR's in check at the upper rpm's than the previous one.

Here's a comparison of the 2 DDE results when "optimized" in my system. The ST4L has more output pretty much everywhere except the very top end, which is basically a wash. If it wasn't so aggresive with maintaining a good AFR, the output at the top end would be higher. However, there's no black smoke with the ST4L version.

Compared to PerfExpert result of the older 2.5 tune I used for the 125.5 and 125.7 pulls (see post #2) these are both measuring a pretty substantial improvement in capability.

[335dsleeper]

Wow... you're making almost 550whp. How does the airlfow look with these pulls? Still in the 64-65lb range?

Can you add fuel up top with you controller? Do you think with this new tune you'll coax 550whp out of her? Picking up that much power through the rev range will likely get your trap a bit higher, no? How does the manifold pressure look up top? Do you think you're seeing an EMP issue at the higher revs/boost now? Or are EMPs no longer an issue with the hybrids turbos?

It'd be nice to see the actual weight of your car. Your current trap suggest you're either quite a bit under 3800lbs or you're making more than 650BHP, which is insane when you think about it, a 250% increase in power without opening the engine. Pretty impressive either way.

It'll be great to see what a Proturbo hybrid, JR tuned car can do with tune/meth alone and without a piggyback/fuel controller.

edit: Not sure if this has been posted before. JR stage 4 hybrid tune on fuel only with the R90 pump... pretty impressive.

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Here's a comparison of the 2 DDE results when "optimized" in my system. The ST4L has more output pretty much everywhere except the very top end, which is basically a wash. If it wasn't so aggresive with maintaining a good AFR, the output at the top end would be higher. However, there's no black smoke with the ST4L version.

Compared to PerfExpert result of the older 2.5 tune I used for the 125.5 and 125.7 pulls (see post #2) these are both measuring a pretty substantial improvement in capability.

[TDIwyse]

Here's kind of a neat comparison of the higher shift range of DWR's newer TCU map, and how it works with the peak pwr curves. The ST4 Lite gives more power across the shift ranges.

Most of the rpm range is in or near the optimum level now, but having a few hundred more rpms up top could also help.

[TDIwyse]

See below in blue

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

Wow... you're making almost 550whp. How does the airlfow look with these pulls? Still in the 64-65lb range?

I'm not directly measuring it anymore. I should go back into matchbot and check. The things Jarek is doing in the ST4L DDE get more boost out of the turbo's with the exact same EWG settings, so it flows a little more the the 2.5 versions, which were moving about 65'ish lb/min.

Can you add fuel up top with you controller?

I'm doing that on both these tunes, and using water/methanol.

But the interesting thing (to me at least) is the logs show that the DDE is pulling back injection duration at the top end to keep AFR's above ~15.0:1. So the HPFP could still supply more fuel if the DDE would allow for a lower AFR. The previous DDE tunes allowed for lower AFR's, but also didn't generate as much boost ... so it's a bit of a wash right now. However, I think if he tweaked the DDE a bit to allow lower AFR's, there could be a bit more peak power to squeeze out.
...

Picking up that much power through the rev range will likely get your trap a bit higher, no?

I would expect so. The PefExpert "Timed Run" results indicate a substantial potential reduction in the ET as well. The higher shift point and coming back into the next gear at a higher rpm help better utilize the top end power, so more power is being applied through each gear.


How does the manifold pressure look up top? Do you think you're seeing an EMP issue at the higher revs/boost now? Or are EMPs no longer an issue with the hybrids turbos?

I haven't seen the HP related EMP issue yet at the EMP/Boost ratio I've been running.


It'd be nice to see the actual weight of your car. Your current trap suggest you're either quite a bit under 3800lbs or you're making more than 650BHP, which is insane when you think about it, a 250% increase in power without opening the engine. Pretty impressive either way.

Agreed. Mik325tds's post has me wondering about my weight estimate.

[TDIwyse]

This is also kind of a neat comparison using PerfExpert "Timed Runs" from the config in March that was used for the posted 1/4 mile pull, vs the present configuration. Both tests were done on the exact same stretch of road, and the ambient conditions are noted (the DA for the March pull is substantially better).

The March version had an earlier DWR TCU tune and the older ST2.5 version with custom stuff and was using Continental DWS 245/40R17 tires. This mornings pull was with the ST4L plus custom and DWR's latest custom TCU tune and rear tires are Continental DW 235/45R17. The larger diameter tires (25.3 vs 24.7) and extended shift rpm is why the accelerometer "nulls" for the shifts don't line up at the same speed.

Looking at the change in time required to go from 45 to 105 (both cases are therefore starting at the top end of 2nd gear section where traction was starting to work and both go through a 2/3 and 3/4 shift) and a 45 to 123 (both cases do 2/3, 3/4 and 4/5 shifts) shows some significant reductions in time... not sure I believe the magnitude of the change yet.

[335dsleeper]

That's a pretty substantial reduction in time. Awesome!

Interesting the DDE is pulling injector duration. I wonder if this signal could be intercepted with a piggy back to limit the DDE's interference. If the tune or piggyback can be tweaked to allow power to climb until the rev limit, it looks like power output above 4500 would be incredible, especially without opening the engine.

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

But the interesting thing (to me at least) is the logs show that the DDE is pulling back injection duration at the top end to keep AFR's above ~15.0:1. So the HPFP could still supply more fuel if the DDE would allow for a lower AFR. The previous DDE tunes allowed for lower AFR's, but also didn't generate as much boost ... so it's a bit of a wash right now. However, I think if he tweaked the DDE a bit to allow lower AFR's, there could be a bit more peak power to squeeze out.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Thnx. Very tempting :-)

Also, thanks for the weight info. That is lighter than I expected. Unless you've done some significant weight saving measures?

The curb weight I was basing things off was 3825, and then taking into account weight subtraction/additions. But I may be a little "heavy" in my estimate.

http://www.autobytel.com/bmw/335d/2011/specifications/

There are some weight saving measures in place. ABC delete but stock exhaust. SCR tank is out. Race pipe instead of throttle body. EGR cooler is still in place. The car is now on a TCKline double adjustable coil over system which is quite a bit lighter than stock springs and dampers but not more than 50 pounds.

[335dsleeper]

Very similar to my set up. 3885 with me and I fluctuate between 230-240.

Im sure you could remove a fair amount more weight but, the interior noise and overall enjoyment would suffer, IMO.

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

There are some weight saving measures in place. ABC delete but stock exhaust. SCR tank is out. Race pipe instead of throttle body. EGR cooler is still in place. The car is now on a TCKline double adjustable coil over system which is quite a bit lighter than stock springs and dampers but not more than 50 pounds.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

There are some weight saving measures in place. ABC delete but stock exhaust. SCR tank is out. Race pipe instead of throttle body. EGR cooler is still in place. The car is now on a TCKline double adjustable coil over system which is quite a bit lighter than stock springs and dampers but not more than 50 pounds.

Thnx. I had some non-allocated time this morning, so I went and bought two 500 lb capacity bathroom scales and did some redneck measurements :-)

Used the lift to raise and lower the car onto equal height stacks of wood (2 2x10's for the non-measured corners) and then the "weighed" corner onto the scales (with 2 thinner sections that covered most of the scales, then a 2x6 on top of that to distribute weight to the 2 scales ... this stack was within 1/16 in of the other 3 corners, so not perfect, but close).

I came up with ~3640 lbs with a car that has 3/4 tank of fuel. Front/Rear weight distribution was about 52/48%. So it looks like I'm in the ballpark as to what you guys are measuring.

With myself and work stuff (lunch, coffee, computer, papers, workout gear and shower stuff) that adds about 230-240 lbs.

So the total would be in the ~ 3870 lbs (1755 kg) for most of my PerfExpert tests from the last couple years. So it looks like I have been over estimating the weight by a bit (~125 kg), which is good to know.

However, I'm not intending the pwr/tq #'s from PerfExpert to be exact, just using it as a tool for measuring relative affects of modifications.

[335dsleeper]

Hahaha. You're crazy!

Perf Expert might not be perfect but, your trap speed is hard to argue. 125mph is going to take a good amount of power.

[32valves]

3850lbs on the scale at m.i.r.

And I weigh about 190lbs.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by 32valves

3850lbs on the scale at m.i.r.

And I weigh about 190lbs.

Thnx. This is interesting seeing various members measured weights.

Can you list your mods to the car that would impact weight reduction?

[32valves]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Thnx. This is interesting seeing various members measured weights.

Can you list your mods to the car that would impact weight reduction?

19" rims up front
17" rims in rear
Bpc down pipe
Circuit werks exhaust
All def equipment removed
Half tank of fuel
1 gallon water meth tank
Full interior
M3 rep bumper with fog light deletes
Light weight windshield wipers and floor mats

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Thnx. I had some non-allocated time this morning, so I went and bought two 500 lb capacity bathroom scales and did some redneck measurements :-)

Used the lift to raise and lower the car onto equal height stacks of wood (2 2x10's for the non-measured corners) and then the "weighed" corner onto the scales (with 2 thinner sections that covered most of the scales, then a 2x6 on top of that to distribute weight to the 2 scales ... this stack was within 1/16 in of the other 3 corners, so not perfect, but close).

I came up with ~3640 lbs with a car that has 3/4 tank of fuel. Front/Rear weight distribution was about 52/48%. So it looks like I'm in the ballpark as to what you guys are measuring.

With myself and work stuff (lunch, coffee, computer, papers, workout gear and shower stuff) that adds about 230-240 lbs.

So the total would be in the ~ 3870 lbs (1755 kg) for most of my PerfExpert tests from the last couple years. So it looks like I have been over estimating the weight by a bit (~125 kg), which is good to know.

However, I'm not intending the pwr/tq #'s from PerfExpert to be exact, just using it as a tool for measuring relative affects of modifications.

It's amazing how similar our ideas are. This was exactly how I was going to do it until a friend of mine found this amazing deal on a used set of professional scales.
In order to improve accuracy you can disconnect your sway bars which would eliminate weight transfer to the other side if your heights are slightly off. You could also measure your rim to fender distances while on the scales. Even though you can't do much about your balance it is a sanity check of the measured weights.

[johnvaz]

TDIWyse great acheivment. prob one of the fastests 335d in the world what sort of 100-200 kmh time you doing mate?

[335dsleeper]

1+

Originally Posted by johnvaz

TDIWyse great acheivment. prob one of the fastests 335d in the world what sort of 100-200 kmh time you doing mate?

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by johnvaz

...what sort of 100-200 kmh time you doing mate?

Sorry for the late response, but was away from internet access.

I guess the dragstrip stuff has 100-200 kph (62.14-124.27 mph) embedded in it. But I don't have specific 100-200 times.

I've seen people post videos on youtube of their speedometer for things like this, but it seems like a very poorly controlled test. No way to verify road slope/grade, wind, location, ambient weather conditions, etc. Would be very easy to choose conditions that distort the results. Plus, my bmw speedometer shows faster speeds than what the vehicle is actually traveling (the OBD speed is right on if using OEM tire sizes, but the speedometer is higher than the OBD logged speed).

[335dsleeper]

You need a Vbox to do high speed test like that? Vbox measures the slope etc.

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Sorry for the late response, but was away from internet access.

I guess the dragstrip stuff has 100-200 kph (62.14-124.27 mph) embedded in it. But I don't have specific 100-200 times.

I've seen people post videos on youtube of their speedometer for things like this, but it seems like a very poorly controlled test. No way to verify road slope/grade, wind, location, ambient weather conditions, etc. Would be very easy to choose conditions that distort the results. Plus, my bmw speedometer shows faster speeds than what the vehicle is actually traveling (the OBD speed is right on if using OEM tire sizes, but the speedometer is higher than the OBD logged speed).

[johnvaz]

true. them v boxes are great and accurante

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

You need a Vbox to do high speed test like that? Vbox measures the slope etc.

I don't think Vbox corrects for slope (unless you can possibly create a math function to do this).

Example: http://www.racelogic.co.uk/_download...20Distance.pdf

Although one of the most accurate measurements systems available, a potential pitfall of the measurement of braking distance is that, due to the nature of GPS satellite positioning, the VBOX measures braking distance assuming a flat surface.

And in their power measurement description they also mention the requirement to have a flat road.

https://racelogic.support/02VBOX_Mot...B_-_Power_Mode

It is very important that the test is carried out on a completely flat road and the correct procedure is followed very carefully.

[335dsleeper]

https://racelogic.support/01VBOX_Aut..._road_Gradient

I've seen it posted on graphs. Not sure if it requires additional tools or programming though.