[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I feel this really applies to consultants or hourly employees only. In my industry, at least, the hours worked doesn't result in more pay unless you get a promotion, and those are generally in the $30k+ range.

I think it also applies to small business owners and their assessments of whether or not it is worth it to grow their business incrementally.

[JimVonBaden]

IMHO It is always worth working more hours for more pay, even as you increase tax brackets. As was said, you still take home at least 50% (usually much more) of what you earn extra. Of course there are other considerations, like quality of life balance. No point in earning a ton of money if you have no free time to enjoy the extra.

What this Taskmaster character is saying is that you should just suck it up and pay your taxes, no matter how high they are, because the government needs it, and they always use it wisely, so shut up and take it. I honestly didn't know that anyone was that stupid, but he made it clear several times that that is what he appears to believe.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

you are missing the point. I know i make more money, but im making it at a lower rate. I have a certain threshold that I have. If I make money above it, im good, if its below, im not going out of my way to do it.

I agree taxes are low right now, so there isnt much to complain about. If taxes were higher, I'm not sure where my threshold would move to. Havent done the calcs.

Originally Posted by Joekerr

I've already tried explaining this point before, but I still don't think he is willing to acknowledge it. Everyone has a tipping point where they discover that the incremental extra dollars is not worth the incremental effort it takes to earn it, and so they take a hard pass.

I get it, but doesn't mean it's not nonsense.

Be poor and stop complaining.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by smrtypants44

But you are still making more money? I'm not sure how it makes people want to work less?

I agree with you. Saying the harder you work is the more you get taxed is a blue collar mentality. But that mentality is NOT how people like Musk, Bezos, Gates, heck even Trump sees work. I am still incentivized to work harder, even with the top tax bracket at 48%.

Here's the thing, the people in the top marginal bracket, generally aren't remotely close to blue collar. Their money is working for them. They got people working for them. In other words, their income tends to be passive. They're making money as they sleep and breathe. The CEO of my company is this person. He's actively looking for ways to make even more money. I want to be this person.

For the most part, the people in the middle to lower brackets, a day you don't work is a day you don't get paid. And that is still true for me.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by xQx

Fook me.

So, how hard is it to land a $150k USD job in SF?

It's hard if you're not in banking or a coder/developer.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

TEACHERS.

Fuck me what a gig.

- Making near 6 figures
- Gold plated pension
- Work a 7 hour day
- Three months off a year
- Severely reduced or even no childcare costs
- Near impossible to get fired
- "PA Days" scheduled around long weekends
- Monumental sick day call ins on either side of long weekends (like 16 times the national average)
- Strike every few years to get MOAR

Honestly, what a joke.

I am not sure where you are getting your information but you are very misinformed unless you are talking about collegiate level only or something (or if Canada is really that different than the US)

Iowa is decent on pay and they are nowhere close to 6 figures (try half that).
They work more than 7 hours a day.
I am not sure what you mean by no childcare costs, do you think teachers get free childcare, or are you saying when the kids are in school their schedules will overlap and reduce the cost for a few years?

I think they are paid well for what they do and the ability it takes to be a teacher... but you are completely over exaggerating it.

[PoorLurker]

according to my google search - SF teacher salary - start in the low 50ks and after nearly 30 years on the job - high 90ks

Basically like $20k a year if one were to live in a midwest place where single family houses are $150-200k.

[Pinscher]

I feel as if I pay tax on every dollar like 5 times in Canada. Every service we get from the government has a tax. I just shipped something through Canada Post and they are charging me for the gas use to ship the item. WTF, was I paying for in the first place? not shipping?

It wasn't so bad when I was a kid and I was only charged the purchase tax on things, but now that I'm older I honestly don't see any end to it. I may not be a "slave," but I certainly can only afford to keep working to no end and I'll have zero opportunity to buy a house or what not to boot.

I'm a Second Generation Canadian, I live in Vancouver, work in IT, and will not inherit any $ from family. Game over.

Where I live, people in my situation end up living on what ever pension the government gives the, and those people are now out on the street as retired and newly bums.

Rent here, which is pretty much just paying someones mortgage on a property they can't afford and never should have bought, is ridiculous.

[se15679875]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

i can beat you all, i make poverty level income in san francisco, claim 0 for taxes, and still owe $3k additional to FED this year. my effective tax rate with FED and state combined is 29%....wtf is happening??

My effective rate is around 29%, but I'm nowhere near the poverty level. That's pretty insane. I live in a state with no state income tax.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

Yup, then add the 13% HST on every single purchase, user fee's, revenue tools and hidden taxes plus property tax and you're paying over 50%.

On over 200K household income, we're paying an effective combined federal/provincial rate of 20.6% (no deductions for kids either). BC has 5% GST and 7% PST (not harmonized) so 12% instead of 13% but if you want to compare to US, purchase sales taxes run from about 7% to 11% (only Delaware and Oregon don't have sales taxes). I know Ontario has higher taxes than BC, but if your comment meant that your total tax load was double ... probably close but if your actually comparing average US taxes to average Canadian taxes ... we're not that much different (they have gas taxes, we have gas taxes, they have road tolls, we don't in BC as of right now ... you might in Ontario, etc).

For all that, IMO we get a lot more value from our taxes than the US (notwithstanding some maddening political decisions every now and then).

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by se15679875

My effective rate is around 29%, but I'm nowhere near the poverty level. That's pretty insane. I live in a state with no state income tax.

And what is it that you do? Own a pizza shop? Invest in bitcoin and verge?

Asking for a friend...

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Taskmaster

But it doesn't, and that's the dumbest parallel I've ever heard.

You don't need an incentive to make money - money is it's own reward. If you want to give up driving nice cars, dining at nice restaurants, traveling to nice places, banging your nice wife (who can afford to maintain herself) and having nice things - you'll work for it.

Or you can live in section 8 housing and have none of those things.
The hyperbolic rambling in here are absolutely absurd.

Unless you value other things more than the money? At some point making more doesn't matter anymore and that point varies by person. Time is more important than money for one.

And sure you do. Its not an all or nothing proposition. If I make 100k and work 40 hrs a week and could work 60 and make 150k. That's a fair trade not even taking into account taxes. I wouldn't do it. I want my 20 hrs more than I want that 50k.

[xQx]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

And what is it that you do? Own a pizza shop? Invest in bitcoin and verge?

Asking for a friend...

Was wondering the same thing. I'm guessing that's a $300k salary and $200k of investment income. If it were an owner-business I'd be expecting that to be a corporate tax return rather than all that income being in the individual's name.

PoorLurker - I like the irony of your username given you're clearing half a million USD per year Many of us dream of that sort of cashflow.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Unless you value other things more than the money? At some point making more doesn't matter anymore and that point varies by person. Time is more important than money for one.

And sure you do. Its not an all or nothing proposition. If I make 100k and work 40 hrs a week and could work 60 and make 150k. That's a fair trade not even taking into account taxes. I wouldn't do it. I want my 20 hrs more than I want that 50k.

That’s fine. And if time means more to you than money, a tax cut won’t change that.

[se15679875]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

And what is it that you do? Own a pizza shop? Invest in bitcoin and verge?

Asking for a friend...

Originally Posted by xQx

Was wondering the same thing. I'm guessing that's a $300k salary and $200k of investment income. If it were an owner-business I'd be expecting that to be a corporate tax return rather than all that income being in the individual's name.

PoorLurker - I like the irony of your username given you're clearing half a million USD per year Many of us dream of that sort of cashflow.

It's personal income (I wish I could finagle the system into paying the corporate tax rate )

I'm a physician. $294k is my base salary from the hospital, but I do a lot of locum tenens work on my days off in underserved parts of the state to supplement my income ($197k). $24k is from dividends. Most of my capital gains are unrealized; I'm a buy and hold vanguard ETF kinda guy, but I mess around with random stocks from time to time.

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by xQx

PoorLurker - I like the irony of your username given you're clearing half a million USD per year Many of us dream of that sort of cashflow.

That tax form is not mine, haha.

Originally Posted by se15679875

It's personal income (I wish I could finagle the system into paying the corporate tax rate )

I'm a physician. $294k is my base salary from the hospital, but I do a lot of locum tenens work on my days off in underserved parts of the state to supplement my income ($197k). $24k is from dividends. Most of my capital gains are unrealized; I'm a buy and hold vanguard ETF kinda guy, but I mess around with random stocks from time to time.

Just spent way too many days at the hospital and was wondering what the doctors made. I thought many of the doctors were around high 100s to mid 200s. However, I hear CA pays very poorly compared to other states. One radiologist mentioned his classmates getting offers nearly twice as much in Texas as he was in CA. Which specialty?

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

On over 200K household income, we're paying an effective combined federal/provincial rate of 20.6% (no deductions for kids either). BC has 5% GST and 7% PST (not harmonized) so 12% instead of 13% but if you want to compare to US, purchase sales taxes run from about 7% to 11% (only Delaware and Oregon don't have sales taxes). I know Ontario has higher taxes than BC, but if your comment meant that your total tax load was double ... probably close but if your actually comparing average US taxes to average Canadian taxes ... we're not that much different (they have gas taxes, we have gas taxes, they have road tolls, we don't in BC as of right now ... you might in Ontario, etc).

For all that, IMO we get a lot more value from our taxes than the US (notwithstanding some maddening political decisions every now and then).

Perhaps in some respects we do, but when I look at what we pay for some items that are just taxed beyond belief and then compare that with the government waste and mismanagement I think we are over taxed, and it's only going to get worse with all of the "free stuff" Kathleen Wynne is promising, carbon taxes and other revenue tools governments are always looking for.

[joots]

Originally Posted by se15679875

It's personal income (I wish I could finagle the system into paying the corporate tax rate )

I'm a physician. $294k is my base salary from the hospital, but I do a lot of locum tenens work on my days off in underserved parts of the state to supplement my income ($197k). $24k is from dividends. Most of my capital gains are unrealized; I'm a buy and hold vanguard ETF kinda guy, but I mess around with random stocks from time to time.

Sounds like you could be a hospitalist.

[se15679875]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

That tax form is not mine, haha.



Just spent way too many days at the hospital and was wondering what the doctors made. I thought many of the doctors were around high 100s to mid 200s. However, I hear CA pays very poorly compared to other states. One radiologist mentioned his classmates getting offers nearly twice as much in Texas as he was in CA. Which specialty?

I don't doubt that. The coasts are sort of a double whammy because compensation is less (slightly) and cost of living is significantly more.

High 100s is probably on the low end for physicians in general - maybe 15 or 20 years ago but physician compensation has generally kept up with inflation. A pediatrician, psychiatrist, or infectious disease physician working in academia might be around mid 100s. Your typical internal medicine physician employed by a hospital will probably be in the $220-$240 range, whereas specialists in private practice usually clear $275-300.

I have some friends in radiology working in academia who make around $340k while those who work non-academic jobs might expect to make 1.25-1.5x the income for twice the work.

I'd be lying to myself if I said I didn't have an awesome gig, but being a physician definitely encompasses a lot of delayed gratification. I'm in a good spot in life now. I just turned 39 but I feel like I've just passed the break even point in terms of wealth accumulation relative to a scenario in which I had taken a high 5 figure or low six figure job straight out of college.

I'm just trying to bank (and invest) as much money as I can now while I'm still relatively young.

[Flying Ace]

bump, anyone finish their 2018 taxes yet and have a comparison of your effective tax rates in 2017 and 2018?

Did Trump end up giving you a tax cut?

[RickFLM4]

I haven't finished / filed yet, but will getting a nice benefit from 199A. Also much easier to complete (standard deduction vs. itemizing), aside from getting through changes for the first time. So I am happy with the changes.

[Hawkeye]

Got married so can't do apples to apples comparison. Just doing the standard deduction was nice though.