[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I should have put a :-) after the "stop insulting Dodge" comment. I know exactly what you meant and I'm on the same page. Dodge, with their 14 year old designs, is doing a much better job than BMW. It's insulting to Dodge to compare them to BMW now! BMW is lost and the way that their designers and executives are behaving is deeply disturbing. I'm genuinely embarrassed now to say that I have a BMW.

[paquet]

Originally Posted by Machinebuilder

After reading all these comments it saddens me a bit. I have been a lifelong BMW owner and always thought of BMW as near the top in design, quality and function in fine German automobiles. I agree this era will be looked at as a low point. Hopefully they will find their way again and make the transition to EV's with style. BMW is lucky to have good competitors like Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and now Tesla which will force it either build competitive products or fall by the wayside. Time will tell but they still build excellent products so there is hope.

I'd like to add my 2 cents to this.
Background: was given 2 different 330's as loaners while car was getting fixed (had to make 2 trips - first to diagnose, second to get the parts in)

The new 2020/2021 3's are just awful from the inside - as in they've been deliberately hobbled to look bad unless you splurge on options/updates.
The first 330 did not feel or drive like the classic 3 series performance vehicle you'd expect, and the insides were bare bones sparse in terms of buttons, dash, etc. To me, at that point, you're just paying the premium for the roundel badge and getting a bad deal in terms of performance, luxury etc. Sure you got electric seats, but that's it. Engine strained, did not rev freely etc.
Second 3 had a bit more of an upgrade - better full live cockpit pro dash, but again, button feel and look - terrible. That silvery metal look. (and apparently that style of square silver coloured buttons is in the new M8 Competition as well)
Much better engine performance though, happily revving up and down. But the instrument cluster and the idrive 7 based screen - just ugh.
Compared to idrive 6, idrive 7 just looks ugly and unpolished. The fonts are off, the colours aren't right, there's no aesthetic flow, etc.
The only saving grace - both cars did not have the hideous giant fuck off grilles.

[Germanauto]

My prediction: unfortunately the G8X sells just fine and nothing changes. At best they tame the grilles a little bit for the LCI.

The world has changed over the past decade during the social media age. Drawing unnecessary attention to oneself is what sells. Look at all the schmucks who've made careers on Youtube, Instagram, and Twitter by spewing nonsense. This, combined with the addition of AWD will make this car the best selling M3/4 ever.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

My prediction: unfortunately the G8X LEASES just fine and nothing changes. At best they tame the grilles a little bit for the LCI.

You’re of course correct, I just made one change.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by packet

I'd like to add my 2 cents to this.
Background: was given 2 different 330's as loaners while car was getting fixed (had to make 2 trips - first to diagnose, second to get the parts in)

The new 2020/2021 3's are just awful from the inside - as in they've been deliberately hobbled to look bad unless you splurge on options/updates.
The first 330 did not feel or drive like the classic 3 series performance vehicle you'd expect, and the insides were bare bones sparse in terms of buttons, dash, etc. To me, at that point, you're just paying the premium for the roundel badge and getting a bad deal in terms of performance, luxury etc. Sure you got electric seats, but that's it. Engine strained, did not rev freely etc.
Second 3 had a bit more of an upgrade - better full live cockpit pro dash, but again, button feel and look - terrible. That silvery metal look. (and apparently that style of square silver coloured buttons is in the new M8 Competition as well)
Much better engine performance though, happily revving up and down. But the instrument cluster and the idrive 7 based screen - just ugh.
Compared to idrive 6, idrive 7 just looks ugly and unpolished. The fonts are off, the colours aren't right, there's no aesthetic flow, etc.
The only saving grace - both cars did not have the hideous giant fuck off grilles.

That's odd. I used to travel 50% of the time and frequently chose the 330 G20. I've also rented that car to go skiing in SLC and still remember how fantastically it handled.

[Suds]

Great point, if these cars don’t sell, there maybe some great lease deals.
I would be in for the right low price.

Originally Posted by NickyC

You’re of course correct, I just made one change.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Suds

Great point, if these cars don’t sell, there maybe some great lease deals.
I would be in for the right low price.

There will be, I’m sure you know all about the insane M4CS lease deals that happened. It might take a couple years, but hopefully by then this current abomination will be toned down a bit with an LCI upgrade and it won’t be embarrassing to be seen in one.

[paquet]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

That's odd. I used to travel 50% of the time and frequently chose the 330 G20. I've also rented that car to go skiing in SLC and still remember how fantastically it handled.

I think it depends on the packages provided.
The second 330 i got with the full idrive 7, live cockpit pro, etc - that was perfect - revving happily. night and day difference when compared to the first one. So my guess is you got the 'better' 330 model.

My beef is with the packages / hobbling of the cars / not listening to the customers / deciding for the customer in a high-handed way - which eventually results in the kind of horrid grille design we're seeing right now.

Do I think they'll change it with the LCI? 50-50 on that. Either they do, or they reserve that change for the next generation.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by packet

I think it depends on the packages provided.
The second 330 i got with the full idrive 7, live cockpit pro, etc - that was perfect - revving happily. night and day difference when compared to the first one. So my guess is you got the 'better' 330 model.

My beef is with the packages / hobbling of the cars / not listening to the customers / deciding for the customer in a high-handed way - which eventually results in the kind of horrid grille design we're seeing right now.

Do I think they'll change it with the LCI? 50-50 on that. Either they do, or they reserve that change for the next generation.

It's a rental car, it's pretty basic. Normal 225 square all season tires, etc.

I think it's a mistake to throw the baby out with the bath water. That you hate the grill does not have any relationship with the handling of the car.

Every G20 330 I've driven, and I've driven many, has handled very well. I should know what good handling is having done hundreds of track days and actually being fast.

Just because someone is ugly for example does not mean they are also stupid and lazy. Each of those attributes is independent.

[paquet]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It's a rental car, it's pretty basic. Normal 225 square all season tires, etc.

I think it's a mistake to throw the baby out with the bath water. That you hate the grill does not have any relationship with the handling of the car.

Every G20 330 I've driven, and I've driven many, has handled very well. I should know what good handling is having done hundreds of track days and actually being fast.

Just because someone is ugly for example does not mean they are also stupid and lazy. Each of those attributes is independent.

I just think it's the attitude of 'we know best' that tends to impact the product. A tunnel vision if you will. That's my concern, looking ahead.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It's a rental car, it's pretty basic. Normal 225 square all season tires, etc.

I think it's a mistake to throw the baby out with the bath water. That you hate the grill does not have any relationship with the handling of the car.

Every G20 330 I've driven, and I've driven many, has handled very well. I should know what good handling is having done hundreds of track days and actually being fast.

Just because someone is ugly for example does not mean they are also stupid and lazy. Each of those attributes is independent.

I agree that BMW, in general in its class (I am not comparing BMW to Porsche which IMHO is in a different price class), is a better handling car than its competitors. However, that is what makes the grill so annoyingly ugly. It doesn't have to be beautiful, but I can't imagine walking into my garage multiple times a day (as I do as in greater Phoenix there are very few homes with basements so we use our garages for storage) and seeing that front end! Just make a car that isn't entirely ugly and its driving attributes will supersede that issue.

[omasou]

while the "expressive" performers don’t want such a practical car. The cabin will be smaller, like a suit that’s “not the most comfortable one, but it’s the one in which you look the best. They want a car that’s almost irrational.”

Really hoping he's been interpreting the focus group feedback incorrectly. I want a car the looks good, performs well, aligns w/the brand tradition and fits like a comfortable suit.

Also hoping the "expressive performers" have two subsegments the "peacocks" that only care about showing off that they own a BMW or a M car and the brand loyal that understand why they buy BMW and especially M and that the latter are a much larger group than the former.

Of course, BMW is no stranger to design controversy. We’ve been here before with Chris Bangle, and most of the cars he created are now talked about in revered terms – a point highlighted by Dukec.

Yes, Bangle's designs were polarizing like Dukec but what is in the pipe he's smoking? I've NEVER heard anyone talk about Bangle's designs in "revered terms".

I waited out the Bangle designs and and I can wait out the Dukec designs until he's shown the door.

Guess we'll learn a lot this year from the sales number, sure hope they don't reinforce his views or it may be a long wait.