[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Btw, to the point of electric vehicles being heavier, like I said, a solution for this is already in the works:

https://www.wired.com/story/cell-to-...tric-vehicles/

Reading the link, there is nothing about rare earth metals, weight, or longevity mentioned here. They talk about a different, less energy dense chemistry that still requires rare earth metals, but because of packaging, they can fix them directly to the chassis.

Oh and by the way, I haven't heard you mention a solution for the fact that we are eventually going to run out of fossil fuel, which is NOT a renewable resource. You rail about lithium, cobalt etc., but avoid the elephant in the room. Funny.

We aren’t going to run out of anything. We have been at peak fuel since 1971 and production worldwide has increased. The only thing that might eventually happen is running out of easily accessible fuel, and we eventually (30- 50-100yrs) have to look at converting shale oil.

I’m not for or against anything but bad Ideas. BEVs are a bad idea

[AmuroRay]

Dealership Quotes $30,000 to Replace Battery in a $10,000 Chevrolet Volt | It’s a huge sum to pay for a new battery in an old hybrid, but cheaper alternatives may exist. https://www.thedrive.com/news/dealer...chevrolet-volt

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Reading the link, there is nothing about rare earth metals, weight, or longevity mentioned here. They talk about a different, less energy dense chemistry that still requires rare earth metals, but because of packaging, they can fix them directly to the chassis.

We aren't going to run out of anything. We have been at peak fuel since 1971 and production worldwide has increased. The only thing that might eventually happen is running out of easily accessible fuel, and we eventually (30- 50-100yrs) have to look at converting shale oil.

I'm not for or against anything but bad Ideas. BEVs are a bad idea

The point is that the article counters your insinuation about the weight of EVs causing increased polution due to "tire wear" which is an asinine assertion in the first place. The article demonstrates one of the mechanisms which will significantly reduce the weight of the batteries which are what lead to EVs weighing more than ICE vehicles. But its all good, if you can't see the writing on the wall then you are clearly blind. ICE is ANCIENT technology and will soon be all but obsolete.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Dealership Quotes $30,000 to Replace Battery in a $10,000 Chevrolet Volt | It's a huge sum to pay for a new battery in an old hybrid, but cheaper alternatives may exist. https://www.thedrive.com/news/dealer...chevrolet-volt

Why do you keep bringing up nonsense? A Tesla Model Y battery is rated for 300k-500k miles. You know anyone with 500k on their car? And a battery replacement situation is very much UNLIKELY before that point. Honestly, you keep bring up strawman bs to validate your point. I get it, you're a dinosaur. You are clearly one of the people who are going to be left behind:

https://www.slashgear.com/967534/her...actually-last/

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Why do you keep bringing up nonsense? A Tesla Model Y battery is rated for 300k-500k miles. You know anyone with 500k on their car? And a battery replacement situation is very much UNLIKELY before that point. Honestly, you keep bring up strawman bs to validate your point. I get it, you're a dinosaur. You are clearly one of the people who are going to be left behind:

https://www.slashgear.com/967534/her...actually-last/

Rated at- and lasting until are two different things. Tesla has been gaming their warranty process for a while, and have been know to change the specifications of their cars POST purchase, including, but not limited to: charging speed, power and available battery capacity. Tesla also will not replace the battery unless it meets and extremely narrow window of ‘defective’ and expect to lose about 10% of the range from new in less than 100k - more if you live up north or have to use the super chargers.

The point here is - despite claims that costs are going down, these vehicles are showing higher repairs costs, and per your links posted previously, that will get worse when the battery is integrated in the chassis, leading to a ‘throw away’ car if a battery cell fails. There is literally no benefit to the consumer in any of this.

[AmuroRay]

I’m going to be ‘left behind’ if I’m not forced into adopting something that’s clearly flawed and a bad deal for consumers? So be it.

It blows my mind how much people will do and believe to follow the crowd.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by jmack123

The point is that the article counters your insinuation about the weight of EVs causing increased polution due to "tire wear" which is an asinine assertion in the first place. The article demonstrates one of the mechanisms which will significantly reduce the weight of the batteries which are what lead to EVs weighing more than ICE vehicles. But its all good, if you can't see the writing on the wall then you are clearly blind. ICE is ANCIENT technology and will soon be all but obsolete.

It's asinine because you say so? Do you care about particulate emissions or not?

But the article you posted didn't really list weight savings as a benefit, instead the savings were from packaging with less "wasted" space so more batteries could be fit for the same volume. The LPF batter in the article was a less dense battery chemistry than what is currently used - so there really wouldn't be a 'weight savings" in the sense your thinking.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

It's asinine because you say so? Do you care about particulate emissions or not?

But the article you posted didn't really list weight savings as a benefit, instead the savings were from packaging with less "wasted" space so more batteries could be fit for the same volume. The LPF batter in the article was a less dense battery chemistry than what is currently used - so there really wouldn't be a 'weight savings" in the sense your thinking.

Trying to articulate reason and critical thinking to somebody who is cult invested in a cause or political ideology/political identity is an uphill endeavor for sure. People who are pro-EV as a lifestyle or political position choose not to look at the aggregate pollution of EV's. We gain nothing long-term from moving to EV's. It's just feel-good marketing/messaging with no substance.

[ArkhamM5]

Originally Posted by jmack123

I'll wait for the counter-research that you have on the topic. Please nothing from and/or funded by the fossil-fuels industry, cuz you know, "cronyism".

No thats not how it works, you claim an intervention works the burden of proof is on you. You posted the lowest form of evidence based on models which is essentially speculation. Thats before even considering the source. Imagine a medical company pulling the shit youre claiming, they have this magical essential oil that you rub on and 20 years from now youll get all your wishes come true here is a scientific study thats based on a model from the Essential Petroleum Agency. .... smh credulous simpleton.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I’m going to be ‘left behind’ if I’m not forced into adopting something that’s clearly flawed and a bad deal for consumers? So be it.

It blows my mind how much people will do and believe to follow the crowd.

Well if 100mpge average efficiency isn't good enough for you, then enjoy it for the performance. Goodwind had some serious performance machines this year. EVs dominated. Its only a matter time.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by ArkhamM5

No thats not how it works, you claim an intervention works the burden of proof is on you. You posted the lowest form of evidence based on models which is essentially speculation. Thats before even considering the source. Imagine a medical company pulling the shit youre claiming, they have this magical essential oil that you rub on and 20 years from now youll get all your wishes come true here is a scientific study thats based on a model from the Essential Petroleum Agency. .... smh credulous simpleton.

Bro, you are a simple-minded fool. Look at the growth of Tesla. It is LITERALLY one of the fastest growing companies. And EVERY MAJOR vehicle manufacturer is making EVs. There is your EVIDENCE. Oh wait, you are smarter than all the major manufacturers? Sorry dawg, you are too slow to have this convo with me. And I work in IT, so I know plenty about emerging tech. The irony is you are the simpleton. Idiot. You clearly aren't a student of history, but whenever there is a tech breakthrough, some idiot like you comes along thinking they have the secret as to why it won't work. Good luck with your outdated tech. You are gonna be left behind.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Bro, you are a simple-minded fool. Look at the growth of Tesla. It is LITERALLY one of the fastest growing companies. And EVERY MAJOR vehicle manufacturer is making EVs. There is your EVIDENCE. Oh wait, you are smarter than all the major manufacturers? Sorry dawg, you are too slow to have this convo with me. And I work in IT, so I know plenty about emerging tech. The irony is you are the simpleton. Idiot. You clearly aren't a student of history, but whenever there is a tech breakthrough, some idiot like you comes along thinking they have the secret as to why it won't work. Good luck with your outdated tech. You are gonna be left behind.

Very rude.

Anyhow, you being in tech has nothing to do with what we are actually speaking about here.
The ‘tech’ is not there, and it’s being pushed as part of the government (read: not consumers) agenda. People will be forced to do this, despite all the logistics issues I presented before you still not being solved. This is going to be a net negative for anyone who can’t afford a brand new car every 3-5 years and do nothing to curb ‘emissions’ especially when cars aren’t even the major contributor.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Well if 100mpge average efficiency isn't good enough for you, then enjoy it for the performance. Goodwind had some serious performance machines this year. EVs dominated. Its only a matter time.

It’s not good enough for shipping, planes and trucking so no, it’s not that good.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Very rude.

Anyhow, you being in tech has nothing to do with what we are actually speaking about here.
The 'tech' is not there, and it's being pushed as part of the government (read: not consumers) agenda. People will be forced to do this, despite all the logistics issues I presented before you still not being solved. This is going to be a net negative for anyone who can't afford a brand new car every 3-5 years and do nothing to curb 'emissions' especially when cars aren't even the major contributor.

Yea. Nonsense. And tech has EVERYTHING to do with it. This is an EMERGING technology, and emerging technology is my wheelhouse. But again, keep thinking you know better than EVERY SINGLE major manufacturer. Cuz you are so smart right? Oh and btw, the OP called me a "simpleton" so hardly think my response was rude.

[ArkhamM5]

Simple minded? You're the one conflating a market for a product meaning its good for the environment. Another added factor is its subsidized by the government with tax credits (Tesla was but not anymore). There is a huge market for them sure, who loves filling up their car. Again this move the pollution away from the user and makes them feel better. With rising gas prices (again caused by the government) it sure makes the market for them look nice. The power grid cant support everyone charging their cars (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/u...charging.html) its nice to switch your gas bill to your electric bill. Kinda like switching to using debit cards, makes it easier to spend. Shit there def some people who may benefit from EVs but planet savers and better than ICE environmentally has yet to be demonstrated independently yet. The propganda has been pretty good thats def helped the market, I mean you believe it so deeply with little evidence.

This is clearly going no where you have made up your mind. You've stated your position and I've stated mine, im open to evidence but it has to be more than speculation. Have a good one, safe driving.

[10"]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Dealership Quotes $30,000 to Replace Battery in a $10,000 Chevrolet Volt | It’s a huge sum to pay for a new battery in an old hybrid, but cheaper alternatives may exist. https://www.thedrive.com/news/dealer...chevrolet-volt

If electric cars can't stay on the road—-they are a HUGE environmental burden. OUCH

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by ArkhamM5

Simple minded? You're the one conflating a market for a product meaning its good for the environment. Another added factor is its subsidized by the government with tax credits (Tesla was but not anymore). There is a huge market for them sure, who loves filling up their car. Again this move the pollution away from the user and makes them feel better. With rising gas prices (again caused by the government) it sure makes the market for them look nice. The power grid cant support everyone charging their cars (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/u...-charging.html) its nice to switch your gas bill to your electric bill. Kinda like switching to using debit cards, makes it easier to spend. Shit there def some people who may benefit from EVs but planet savers and better than ICE environmentally has yet to be demonstrated independently yet. The propganda has been pretty good thats def helped the market, I mean you believe it so deeply with little evidence.

This is clearly going no where you have made up your mind. You've stated your position and I've stated mine, im open to evidence but it has to be more than speculation. Have a good one, safe driving.

Again, regarding it being good for the environment my simple-minded friend - I have provided receipts from reputable sources (e.g. EPA etc). When you have verifiable sources stating otherwise lemme know, ok? You posted some bs article, yet I provided sources with studies demonstrating EVs cause LESS POLLUTION than ICE vehicles. Enough of the right-wing braindead conspiracies that so many of you traffic in. When you have evidence lemme know. Facts over feelings amirite?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Again, regarding it being good for the environment my simple-minded friend - I have provided receipts from reputable sources (e.g. EPA etc). When you have verifiable sources stating otherwise lemme know, ok? You posted some bs article, yet I provided sources with studies demonstrating EVs cause LESS POLLUTION than ICE vehicles. Enough of the right-wing braindead conspiracies that so many of you traffic in. When you have evidence lemme know. Facts over feelings amirite?

Right wing? So anything or anybody that poses valid questions, debates the efficacy of EV's as it pertains to climate and/or is contrary to the pro-EV camp's position is right wing? There is plenty of data available that pokes significant holes in the "EV is better" debate. The EPA is a government arm, after all; not exactly the most unbiased source or one without an agenda.

[JMD]

Bring it!

[yousefnjr]

Is it possible to discuss the performance benefits of EVs without things devolving into politics and name calling? Good grief. Call me crazy but a quad motor 800hp+ burnout machine isn’t about being green

Don’t care about the minerals, recycling, or infrastructure. Really don’t care about what someone in an apartment will do. What’s more interesting here is the guy in the interview saying this new platform will allow them do things they haven’t before, and that driving dynamics / handling will not suffer. Anybody actually read the article in the OP?

What an impressive acceleration! What’s more, I was blown away by the outstanding cornering dynamics and very sensitive vehicle control – all qualities that should not be lacking in any M automobile.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Is it possible to discuss the performance benefits of EVs without things devolving into politics and name calling? Good grief. Call me crazy but a quad motor 800hp+ burnout machine isn’t about being green

Don’t care about the minerals, recycling, or infrastructure. Really don’t care about what someone in an apartment will do. What’s more interesting here is the guy in the interview saying this new platform will allow them do things they haven’t before, and that driving dynamics / handling will not suffer. Anybody actually read the article in the OP?

They say this all the time - it’s marketing.

People are complaining because despite all the hype, the product comes with a lot of compromises. If you want to read marketing material, no one is stopping you, if you want to discuss the benefits, no one is stopping you. Why do we have to have a conversation revolving around what you care about only? Just ignore it if you don’t want to read it.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

They say this all the time - it’s marketing.

People are complaining because despite all the hype, the product comes with a lot of compromises. If you want to read marketing material, no one is stopping you, if you want to discuss the benefits, no one is stopping you. Why do we have to have a conversation revolving around what you care about only? Just ignore it if you don’t want to read it.

Because it’s the topic of the thread? There’s about 1000 others for debating the merits of EVs in general