[possible335i2008]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Because Terry said so. He is trying to address the throttle closure issue that we address earlier with our Torque Targeting logic. First, he said it was complete BS and nothing more than a marketing driven "placebo". Then when that didn't work, he poo-pooed it by saying how dangerous it was and that he doesn't agree with it. When that stopped working, he played the fear card and knowingly spread misinformation about how it interferes with factory safety strategies which is completely nonsense. All the while selling 1.22 chips to unwitting customers who believed they were getting a issue-free tune. Only to later disclose there were shortcomings that were to be to be corrected with a brand new chip (1.3) which was under development while 1.22 was selling.

Same goes for the closed loop PID system is is trying to implement right now. What he is trying to emulate right now is what we've had implemented since v3 came out last year. Of course, he initially claimed that it was a dangerous "band aid" which, to this day, I still don't get. Now he's trying to implement it in platform that doesn't isolate input DC from output DC. Which is like software filtering intercooler pipe pressure provide a psuedo-boost pressure signal. Oh wait... he's doing that to and no one will figure it out until the shortcomings are brought up weeks/months from now.

I'm pretty well versed at the tech behind all this. So I'm not easily swayed by the marketing bullshit that runs so rampant in this forum by those who have something to gain (free parts, commission, etc,.) I'm not exactly unbaised/unmotivated myself but I do a pretty good job of trying to keep things factual.

shiv

Cool so explain if you wouldn't mind why your system is better and or safer for everybody, and terry was talking about meth systems just about the same time everyone was mentioning the topic, both products have had their flaws period. And for the record I paid 79x dollars for my jb3 (initial release) and I would love some free stuff but none has come my way , and now I think since there has been banter on a jb3 thread I believe that healthy criticism should be allowed on procede threads, this whole situation has become ridiculous...lets just stick to facts that can be proven to be better for the car for both performance and durability, numbers prove everything..now lets have them

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by 2point3

As normal the obvious conclusion is apparently a given tune has not been moving as well as its competition is unit sales and on the track. Again this tune will not gain any sales due to the owners lack of charisma even with the new impressive features.

+1

I'd love to give the product a try but not happening.

[Ilma]

Shiv has ample charisma.

However, he does tends to get condescending when frustrated.

In all fairness he did take a lot of criticism about torque targeting being smoke and mirrors so I don't blame him one bit for pointing out that it is now being emulated by the competition.

Those are just facts and they speak beyond all the rhetoric being induced here.

If you don't agree....that's OK with me.

[Septro]

Whew - looks like I missed the fireworks.

I would agree that a vendor should remain out of another competitive product's thread. Just bad ju-ju. The commenter's are correct that Shiv provides a wealth of expertise but he has zero situational awareness how to communicate it.

Honestly, when some product features he puts out - that alone does more to carry favor with customers to buy his tune than any other example. But the bitchin back and forth like this with overly-aggressive harping of another competitor makes people lose any interest in the products he's selling (at least in my case).

If the copying bothered Vishnu so much, patent yo' shit and file a lawsuit for crying out loud. This is like having Downy bitch to their customers about Snuggle stealing their fabric softener secrets... Or CostCo to Sam's Club, AMC to Regal, Microsoft to Apple, Simpson's to Family Guy, John Holmes to Dirk Diggler (you get the idea)

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Septro

Whew - looks like I missed the fireworks.

I would agree that a vendor should remain out of another competitive product's thread. Just bad ju-ju. The commenter's are correct that Shiv provides a wealth of expertise but he has zero situational awareness how to communicate it.

Is situational awareness really necessary when talking about cars and technology? Are we so thin skinned at the mere mention of a technical shortcoming/misrepresentation sends those who adopt said product into fits of outrage? More so than the actual technical shortcoming itself? I don't personalize car stuff that much. At least not enough to call anyone names

Shiv

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

PS. My suggestion for the knocking customer
was to run premium fuel. And it worked.

Didn't you offset the CPS enough to avoid it ?

[luca335i]

Well I'm gonna have to agree that 1.22 was certainly flawed,hence the super quick release of 1.3. I had overboost codes and boost oscilation. I did feel inconsistent throttle feel and boost was all over the place. But it seems terry is on the right track with 1.3. I stayed with bms because my car was still fast as hell and all this jibber jabber about piggy backs will soon end when flash technology can be readily available. Piggy backs have always been inherently flawed, even with Vishnu. V2 users with boost spikes and limp mode problems can certainly attest to this. It's taken both bms and Vishnu a few years to create a proper functional piggy,which certainly isn't an accomplishment. The only thing that swayed me away from Vishnu is the lack of popularity with other engine platforms like subaru, mitsu. I've always liked the fact that terry is dedicated to the n54 platform and is not gonna move on to the newest FI car and ditch his customers.

[runningman]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Is situational awareness really necessary when talking about cars and technology? Are we so thin skinned at the mere mention of a technical shortcoming/misrepresentation sends those who adopt said product into fits of outrage? More so than the actual technical shortcoming itself? I don't personalize car stuff that much. At least not enough to call anyone names

Shiv

The issue isn't really about pointing out shortcomings/misrepresentations, although there appears plenty of that to go around on both sides. From what I can see it is about your increasingly diminishing credibility.

When you said their resistor tune would never work and then two years later offered up your own, you lost some credibility. When you said the JB3 would never be released and it was, you lost some credibility. When you said your system was knock free and it was shown not to be so by your customers, you lost some credibility. When you said it had no throttle closure and it was shown to have some by your customers, you lost some credibility. People more familiar with your history could probably triple this list. Your abandoned boost gauge project cost you credibility.

Even in this thread you complain about using the map sensor for a boost gauge readout yet you suggested a similar product (no name tune), not to mention that very same sensor is the ONLY boost reference your system uses to tune with. So it is good enough for the safety of a 15k engine but not good enough for a $200 boost gauge readout?

Now you cry their 1.3 update will never work, despite some testers saying how much they love it. So one has to ask themselves, why should I trust what this guy has to say when he's been wrong so many times before?

[luca335i]

I love the 1.3 so far. Will write a review tonight.

[335jb3power]

man.. shiv you needa learn how to shut the fuck up..

[luca335i]

LOL

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Ziggy99

Since the thread has been jacked anyway, why dont u share this?

Now that is what you call hard-core trolling.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by runningman

The issue isn't really about pointing out shortcomings/misrepresentations, although there appears plenty of that to go around on both sides. From what I can see it is about your increasingly diminishing credibility.

When you said their resistor tune would never work and then two years later offered up your own, you lost some credibility. When you said the JB3 would never be released and it was, you lost some credibility. When you said your system was knock free and it was shown not to be so by your customers, you lost some credibility. When you said it had no throttle closure and it was shown to have some by your customers, you lost some credibility. People more familiar with your history could probably triple this list. Your abandoned boost gauge project cost you credibility.

Even in this thread you complain about using the map sensor for a boost gauge readout yet you suggested a similar product (no name tune), not to mention that very same sensor is the ONLY boost reference your system uses to tune with. So it is good enough for the safety of a 15k engine but not good enough for a $200 boost gauge readout?

Now you cry their 1.3 update will never work, despite some testers saying how much they love it. So one has to ask themselves, why should I trust what this guy has to say when he's been wrong so many times before?

Man, you never quit.

1) We never offered our own resistor based tune. To date, we've provided a DIY and a proposed version that we have yet to even offer. Never been a fan of resistor based tuned and that's not going to change anytime soon.

2) I said the Jb3 wouldn't come to market because I didn't believe that BMS had the ability to properly replicate the CAS angle sensor as they claimed it would. And sure enough, they dropped it from the feature list without telling anyone.

3) The customer who logged knock doesn't get knock when he switched to the recommended fuel.

4) When did I ever say we eliminate throttle closure. I believe that was Terry who made such a claim. I merely said we reduced the frequency and severity of it. Which, by all third party testing, we did

5) We dropped the gauge offering because of our relationship with Rixst3r. And you'll see why shortly. I'll leave that announcement to Rick.

6) 6 flashing LEDs does not a boost gauge make. The TMAP sensor does not measure manifold pressure so why pass it off like it can? Again, we are talking about a product that we not even brought to market.

Anything else?

Shiv

[cn555ic]

Man Shiv..It means that I have to buy a new guage again from Rick...I am on my second one!!!!lol

[335jb3power]

aright shiv.. why dont you start your own thread on why you think your product is better than jb's.. why do you have to go n hate like that? seriously.. people came to read this thread because the headlines said "jb3 1.33 installed and tested".. it didnt fuckin say "my names shiv and im a dick because i cant accept the fact someone out there has a better tune than me".. now dont get me wrong.. the procede is great.. and so is jb.. but why you have to go n jack every juicebox thread.. i think most people agree with me on this.. when you come on here like that it makes people realize how insecure you are about your own shit.. not getting as much sales as jb3? im sorry.. but relax.. work on your own shit.. and worry about your own things.. wanna hate on jb3? like i said before.. start your own thread on it.. dont go n jack other peoples..

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by 335jb3power

aright shiv.. why dont you start your own thread on why you think your product is better than jb's.. why do you have to go n hate like that? seriously.. people came to read this thread because the headlines said "jb3 1.33 installed and tested".. it didnt fuckin say "my names shiv and im a dick because i cant accept the fact someone out there has a better tune than me".. now dont get me wrong.. the procede is great.. and so is jb.. but why you have to go n jack every juicebox thread.. i think most people agree with me on this.. when you come on here like that it makes people realize how insecure you are about your own shit.. not getting as much sales as jb3? im sorry.. but relax.. work on your own shit.. and worry about your own things.. wanna hate on jb3? like i said before.. start your own thread on it.. dont go n jack other peoples..

Where is this "hate" I'm spewing? And what's with the profanity? Can't you talk/type like an adult?

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Man Shiv..It means that I have to buy a new guage again from Rick...I am on my second one!!!!lol

No, just a software update and a few cosmetic tweaks... but lots of new features
If existing customers want the changes, you can just send it in for a re-flash of the firmware for a small fee to cover shipping and labor.

I've had them done for a while, but my main programmer was out of country, his father had a heart attack.

I am putting together an official announcement post this weekend.

/threadjack

[Septro]

I give you props Shivareeno for taking on all comers and replying to every ass clown that writes something on the forums. I still think the way you do it leaves a lot to be desired and it costs you some customers, but F#$@ dude don't change.

You stay classy baby!

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

No, just a software update and a few cosmetic tweaks... but lots of new features
If existing customers want the changes, you can just send it in for a re-flash of the firmware for a small fee to cover shipping and labor.

I've had them done for a while, but my main programmer was out of country, his father had a heart attack.

I am putting together an official announcement post this weekend.

/threadjack

Niiiiiiiiiiiice!!

[Septro]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

No, just a software update and a few cosmetic tweaks... but lots of new features
If existing customers want the changes, you can just send it in for a re-flash of the firmware for a small fee to cover shipping and labor.

I've had them done for a while, but my main programmer was out of country, his father had a heart attack.

I am putting together an official announcement post this weekend.

/threadjack

That's some good looking out for your customers Rick. Basically free features for the cost of some stamps and labor... too bad I already bought the BMS gauge

[runningman]

Partial reply:

Originally Posted by Shiv

2) I said the Jb3 wouldn't come to market because I didn't believe that BMS had the ability to properly replicate the CAS angle sensor as they claimed it would. And sure enough, they dropped it from the feature list without telling anyone.

I don't see anything about CAS angle sensors listed in the following?

Originally Posted by Shiv

Spoken like someone who has absolutely I clue about tuning the n54. As for the jb3 being designed for low power consumption, why don't you do the math at the current requirement of driving two 12ohm 14v solenoids at 100% duty cycle. Unless I'm mistaken on of the design goals was to drive both solenoids

Hence, vaporware.

Shiv

From: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=23

Originally Posted by Shiv

3) The customer who logged knock doesn't get knock when he switched to the recommended fuel.

91 octane fuel is the suggested fuel, but I was not referring to just that one customer. Here are two others:

Originally Posted by Scalbert

I ran the same tests this morning doing the reset and adapting to stock mode but this time with the PROcede. There appears to be knock events seen.

From:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=386

Originally Posted by Ilma

Here's my BT datalog of Stage 2 Procede with 90% UT using 94 Octane.
No knock status flags, but some definite timing pull perhaps?

From:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=460

Originally Posted by Shiv

4) When did I ever say we eliminate throttle closure. I believe that was Terry who made such a claim. I merely said we reduced the frequency and severity of it. Which, by all third party testing, we did

Here:

Originally Posted by Shiv

With v3, our PID based boost control system keeps the ECU's perceived duty cycle wherever we want it. With one simple change, we were able to keep throttle from closing

From:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...53&postcount=1

Originally Posted by Shiv

5) We dropped the gauge offering because of our relationship with Rixst3r. And you'll see why shortly. I'll leave that announcement to Rick.

That it was so quickly dropped does not inspire confidence in your decision making ability.

Originally Posted by Shiv

6) 6 flashing LEDs does not a boost gauge make. The TMAP sensor does not measure manifold pressure so why pass it off like it can? Again, we are talking about a product that we not even brought to market.

You don't seem to have a problem passing it off as boost pressure in your tuning/logging software? You don't seem to mind doing 100% of your tuning using that single sensor? If there is a concern with its accuracy shouldn't that be really alarming news for all V3 users?

[Septro]

omg Shiv, you got knocked the #@$ out!

runningman - while I admire your concise response - it's all for naught dude. I figured out that either Shiv is either blissfully unaware of his antagonistic method of communication or maliciously intent on subverting wherever he can.. either way, he isn't gonna change.