[citrixscu]

If the DME proves that the 8100+ RPM happened at the time that your car was at the hotel, and you can prove that you actually did valet it there, it looks like the Hotel might be in need of a lawsuit.

[BavarianBullet]

Originally Posted by eurodriver

Ok after reading this post I realized that I picked my car up from a hotel where I valied the car. However, after I picked up the car I got on the freeway and was going easy 70MPH for about 3 miles till gas in my car cut off. Lets say the car was over revved; wouldn't the car have broken down right away?

Not necessarily, it depends on what's actually broken. If it's a bearing, it could take a while to spin and seize from lack of oil. Usually the valvetrain gets it if the engine was over-revved.

Using my super-duper math skills I was able to run a few wrong-gear shift scenarios and can say the following re your 8161 RPM DME log:
1) Downshifting from third into second (vs intended 4th) at 5370 rpm would send the engine rpms to 8161rpms.
2) Downshifting from second into first (vs intended 3rd) at 4800 rpm would send the engine rpms to 8161rpms.
3) Downshifting from 4th into 3rd (vs intended 5th) at 6150 rpm would send the engine rpms to 8161rpms.

I put the 3rd to 2nd shift at the top as it's the most likely candidate for missed shifts based on real world experience. 1st is really hard to shift into at any speed and 4th at 6150rpm is upwards of 110mph. At that speed or higher, you'd need a lot of road so the highest likelihood of a valet-induced engine grenade is the 3rd to 2nd miss and mechanical over-rev.

I hope you get to the bottom of it and if it's the valets, nail their asses to the wall.

[Jed]

Originally Posted by eurodriver

Ok after reading this post I realized that I picked my car up from a hotel where I valied the car. However, after I picked up the car I got on the freeway and was going easy 70MPH for about 3 miles till gas in my car cut off. Lets say the car was over revved; wouldn't the car have broken down right away?

You don't happen to have any kind of receipt of having stayed at the hotel to back you up do you?

[SteveMD]

Originally Posted by BavarianBullet

Using my super-duper math skills I was able to run a few wrong-gear shift scenarios and can say the following re your 8161 RPM DME log:
1) Downshifting from third into second (vs intended 4th) at 5370 rpm would send the engine rpms to 8161rpms.
2) Downshifting from second into first (vs intended 3rd) at 4800 rpm would send the engine rpms to 8161rpms.
3) Downshifting from 4th into 3rd (vs intended 5th) at 6150 rpm would send the engine rpms to 8161rpms.

Any of those scenarios, even the 2nd one, would have the car moving at a pretty good lick. The valet must have gone on a joy ride.

[eurodriver]

Originally Posted by Jed

You don't happen to have any kind of receipt of having stayed at the hotel to back you up do you?

I did not stay at the hotel. I met up with my friends that were staying there and just ended up valeting the car. When i parked the car the valet guys were young(prob 18ish) and got all excited when they saw my car.

I dont know where the valet ticket was. I ended up not having to pay for the valet because I did not park it over night. However, I am hoping the valet slip is still in my car(which is at the dealership).

[Kbueno]

+1, if it wasn't you..it was the valet. He/she could of done a money shift and something bent/manifested itself after you drove a bit.

[bmwzimmer]

Dude, THAT REALLY SUCKS MAN

[bogdan]

Originally Posted by Brad@PSI MOTORS

That is crazy. Start looking into a lawyer that will go after them on the basis of contract violation. The contract being the warranty. They will need to prove your car hit 8800rpm with the computer info and prove that it was scanned on your car. I think they are just trying to see if you will cave. Dealers do not like using warranty for big ticket items like this because they do not get paid right away and it is usually a pain for them. Plus I was told they do not make as much money.

What's contract violation?

Dealers don't just push people to see if they will cave based on wanting to get paid... That's absurd. Do you realize the kind of trouble the dealer would be in with BMW NA if they were discovered doing that? Hint: The money they make on an engine would not be worth losing their frachise.

Yes warranty pays less less than C.O.D. work, but most claims are paid in a matter of 24 hours after being submitted.

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

the is no real "black box" in the car -- but there is an event logging system incorporated in the DME --

In previous years if misuse/abuse suspected -- the dealer would have to remove the DME and send it to the engineering department of BMWNA or AG -- the engineers would extract the logged data and return the results.

I am gathering the new ISTA/P system is more advanced and allows quicker access to the information...

this is second hand information -- subject to validation

Yes, the DME does record over-rev situations. Usually this data can be seen by BMW when uploading FASTA data, no need to remove the DME and send it to BMW unless they specifically ask for it.

While the ISID units can see more, it seems like they actually take longer to scan a car than the previous GT-ONE units.

Originally Posted by Brad@PSI MOTORS

the stupid thing is if it really did rev to 8800 then that would mean 1 of 2 things. Either he has a tune or the ECU freaked out and let it go that high or is an improper readin. If that was the case then it is BMW's issue they have to fix.

No tuners for these engine will let them go to 8800rpm, because it's not sustainable with the OEM valvetrain. However, you're assuming that this happened on an acceleration cycle. There are many failsafe's in the DME that will not let an engine rev to 8800+ under acceleration.

There is only one thing that would bypass the OEM RPM limit on any manual cars. That would be a mechnical over-rev. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be written into software to prevent the mechnical side from spinning past the RPM limit if you mistakenly shift from 5th to 2nd.

To the OP

I'm really sorry to hear this has happened to you. I'll try to give to you as nicely as I can. If the cause is an over-rev it will not be covered under warranty because it would be considered abuse. That is not really the dealers decision, but BMW NA. The decison should be arrived at after doing a teardown.
I have seen valves float on the S54 engines, but they were the intake valves which is not related to an over-rev condition. If exhaust valves are bent, that would indicate a mechanical over-rev (money $shift).

If I had to bet money, I would say that the valet was screwing around with your car in or near the lot and shifted into 1st instead of 3rd.

I would pursue this with the Hotel/Valet company. I really do wish you luck with the situation, and hope they will resolve it correctly.

[thisguyhere]

wow good luck man , hope you find that valet ticket. I'm never using valet again!

[Topless 335i]

Were you also going 88mph?

[EDIT] Nevermind...I just read the whole thread and that's messed up. If you can't find the valet slip, I'm sure the hotel has security footage for the parking lot you may be able to view (but I highly doubt they'd let you). Hope it works out well.

[bmwzimmer]

Originally Posted by eurodriver

I did not stay at the hotel. I met up with my friends that were staying there and just ended up valeting the car. When i parked the car the valet guys were young(prob 18ish) and got all excited when they saw my car.

I dont know where the valet ticket was. I ended up not having to pay for the valet because I did not park it over night. However, I am hoping the valet slip is still in my car(which is at the dealership).

I would Kill Those Fockers!!!!

[DMRTech]

I know that Vishnu Canabus has a valet mode, but it should be restricted even more so to protect these cars from "dennis the menace" type valet employees. I used to have a WRX with all bolt-ons, upgraded fuel system and upgraded turbo. It was tuned by a COBB accessport which had a valet mode that would not let the car rev past 3500 RPM - I think that after hearing your story a tuner live Shiv or Terry should make a map that protects the car in this way. Bottom line is that there will be times when you are in a hurry and may need to valet your car - no one should have to worry about this happening to them...

[detrick]

I refuse to use valet parking...if you're lucky, you might escape with just a ding or scratch.

[Tortfeasor 335xi]

I hope you find the Valet ticket, I really do. I also hope that the over rev corresponds with the time you valet parked the car. Just know that, not having the ticket does not mean you are SOL, just that you will need other proof. Regardless, I still think you should be doing research into local lawyers who do automotive work. $19,000 is a lot of money to pay for an engine replacement.

[onefastman]

Go to the hotel and be curtious and ask for the securty footage, make up some story that you need a copy for a crazy gf that thought you were some where else and thinks your cheating or what ever, and take it to a lawyer with the info from bmw, the law suit should go quickly especially if a summary judgment motion passes which on something this obvieous might.

[skifreak107]

Originally Posted by onefastman

Go to the hotel and be curtious and ask for the securty footage, make up some story that you need a copy for a crazy gf that thought you were some where else and thinks your cheating or what ever, and take it to a lawyer with the info from bmw, the law suit should go quickly especially if a summary judgment motion passes which on something this obvieous might.

99% of the time they won't without a police report or the actual police asking.

[RiXst3r]

How many miles are on the car now? I am guessing it has not had any miles added since the engine stopped.

The freeze frame data of the over-rev will show the mileage of when it happened... if the mileage difference is the distance from the hotel, you know it happened at the hotel.

-Rick

[Htown09]

Originally Posted by Tortfeasor 335xi

I hope you find the Valet ticket, I really do. I also hope that the over rev corresponds with the time you valet parked the car. Just know that, not having the ticket does not mean you are SOL, just that you will need other proof. Regardless, I still think you should be doing research into local lawyers who do automotive work. $19,000 is a lot of money to pay for an engine replacement.

Can you ask the dealership about the time it was overrevved? If so, I concur to then file a dispute (police report) and start investigating the valet boys.

[bmwzimmer]

Originally Posted by Daniel@RissRacing

I know that Vishnu Canabus has a valet mode, but it should be restricted even more so to protect these cars from "dennis the menace" type valet employees. I used to have a WRX with all bolt-ons, upgraded fuel system and upgraded turbo. It was tuned by a COBB accessport which had a valet mode that would not let the car rev past 3500 RPM - I think that after hearing your story a tuner live Shiv or Terry should make a map that protects the car in this way. Bottom line is that there will be times when you are in a hurry and may need to valet your car - no one should have to worry about this happening to them...

Valet mode isn't going to stop a bonehead "money shift"

It can happen to any MT

[DMRTech]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

Valet mode isn't going to stop a bonehead "money shift"

It can happen to any MT

If someone was to make a valet mode like the one I descibed where the rev limiter is set to 3500 then there would be no reason to drive the car in an abusive manner. Whoever caused the damage to this car was obviously racing it and was trying to downshift from an already fast engine speed.

This bonehead was joyriding and that is why he had a "money shift". If there were safeguards in place to keep joyriding from happening in the first place then I am sure supposed situations like this would be eliminated - valet drivers do not normally drive highway speeds nor do they need to. I am just looking for solutions to eliminate future occurances of this supposed problem. If it is a big enough concern and it is brought to the attention of the right people i.e. Shiv or Terry, then ethusiast who tune their cars have one less problem to worry about during the duration of their ownership of the vehicle.

If the car was over revved like the dealer has stated, then it will state on the scanner the exact milage it occured. From there you can check the actual milage on the vehicle to see how much was added on after the occurance of the over-rev. You stated that you had driven 3 miles, so if the over-rev occurace happened 4+ miles before the current milage, then you know who did it beyond a reasonable doubt - valet bonehead. Case Closed - New Engine Paid

[marcel b]

for me it is strange that you were able to drive home from the hotel.. I would expect an engine to blow up straight away when it hit 8800 RPM! curious what will come out.
Good luck man!

[CubanJJ09]

god that sucks, hope everything turns out ok. il be keepin an eye on this one