[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by jcarlucci1

He is saying that 3.7 is not possible..although I believe the graph is a bit off, as I dont think 410whp is necessary to get 4.5 60-100..more like 390-395. Either way, something is up with the procede logs.

In the calculations I considered the weight numbers from a car measured with half tank and 75kg driver. The 15whp you consider I'm off can derive from tests with less loaded vehicles.

I tried to give representative numbers for an 'average' 335i (or at least for the ones I well know). Single cases can result slower or faster with the same power curves... But not so much (+- 0.1s).

P.S.
The 410whp car did the 60-100 in 4.46s on the simulator... I approximated to one digit

P.P.S.
Power curves for the two 'tuned cars' are an estimation (never tested an N54 on this output level). The stock curve otherwise is from my car

[Mr. 5]

I appreciate the simulation graph but I don't know if it would be true for all situations. It is an estimation at best.
I think what we really need is a procede car that makes sure that he has calibrated his logger to do some runs with a Vbox and compare each.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

This is more like it.
60-100 in 4.5 seconds is really good.

I would really like to see a Procede logged car do some fun runs with another tuned car with a Vbox and see how they compare. We can then check the video and compare times at the same time.

I have a Vbox so if anyone wants to hook up this weekend then let me know.
BTW, I think that my average 60-100 is around 4.4

My trap speed in the 1/4 mile is 6mph higher than yours. Same goes for Makala in Florida who is running ~123mph traps with full weight and no meth (with the same v4 map). And yet our dyno results are probably only 20-25whp higher than yours which defies all basic HP/trap speed calculators. So obviously there is more to it than plugging in numbers and forecasting performance.

Shiv

[bimmerboy]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

My trap speed in the 1/4 mile is 6mph higher than yours. Same goes for Makala in Florida who is running ~123mph traps with full weight and no meth (with the same v4 map). And yet our dyno results are probably only 20-25whp higher than yours which defies all basic HP/trap speed calculators. So obviously there is more to it than plugging in numbers and forecasting performance.

Shiv

Would you care to elaborate?

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by bimmerboy

Would you care to elaborate?

6 mph faster trap is probably in the neighborhood of 50 whp more. Shiv says his/Malaka's dyno is probably only about 20-25 whp more than Mr. 5, yet his car their car is trapping 6 mph more. His point is that a dyno number, although a good estimator, doesn't always tell the whole story. At least that is my take on the situation.

[kenneth]

I think he means peak hp is misleading in this case, as the area under the curve is what is causing this. More hp/tq along the rpm levels.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

My trap speed in the 1/4 mile is 6mph higher than yours. Same goes for Makala in Florida who is running ~123mph traps with full weight and no meth (with the same v4 map). And yet our dyno results are probably only 20-25whp higher than yours which defies all basic HP/trap speed calculators. So obviously there is more to it than plugging in numbers and forecasting performance.

Shiv

Right but you can't compare traps from different tracks expecially when my DA was approximately 1500 ft where yours was -700.
If I ran those traps at Sac then I would agree with you.

[Donald-335i]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Right but you can't compare traps from different tracks expecially when my DA was approximately 1500 ft where yours was -700.
If I ran those traps at Sac then I would agree with you.

+1

[kennethcho1337]

Does anyone know the 60-100 time for the 335d?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Right but you can't compare traps from different tracks expecially when my DA was approximately 1500 ft where yours was -700.
If I ran those traps at Sac then I would agree with you.

Turbocharged engines aren't as sensitive to DA variances as NA engines. Especially when they run methanol which drop IAT to below ambient temp. It's true that direct comparions need to be taken with a grain of salt due to uncontrolles variables. But 6mph is a
lot to pick up by changing conditions alone.

[pentaxis]

Area under the curve can play a huge factor in how fast a car actually is. Peak horsepower and torque are only a single plot on that curve. Although peak #'s can give a general estimation for speed of a vehicle when weight is known, it is impossible to know unless the entire graph is shown.

Drag racing makes use of less of the rev range so it isn't quite as much of a worry, but a car that makes ample torque evenly thoughout even a 1000rpm range vs car that drops severely will have a drastic difference in end result.

[easy2speed]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Turbocharged engines aren't as sensitive to DA variances as NA engines. Especially when they run methanol which drop IAT to below ambient temp. It's true that direct comparions need to be taken with a grain of salt due to uncontrolles variables. But 6mph is a
lot to pick up by changing conditions alone.

That would be the case if sac wasn't 2mph fast. So 4mph is easily within DA differences. You Shiv, need to run a vBox 60-100mph time and post the graph. Since most of your customers don't drag race and it seems many do 60-100 logs, this seems to be more appropriate for your customer base than you doing 1/4 runs. Make sure you pick a flat road and post the graph. I, along with many others, do not trust 80% you say.

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by easy2speed

That would be the case if sac wasn't 2mph fast. So 4mph is easily within DA differences. You Shiv, need to run a vBox 60-100mph time and post the graph. Since most of your customers don't drag race and it seems many do 60-100 logs, this seems to be more appropriate for your customer base than you doing 1/4 runs. Make sure you pick a flat road and post the graph. I, along with many others, do not trust 80% you say.

I wouldn't say its easily within the range, but possible. 4 mph is alot. In my experience, my best mph has been in +1000 DA and I have raced in -1000 DA (doesn't get that good too often here though) and I have stock FMIC which makes the DA much more of a factor. With FMIC and Meth, DA will affect your car less.

I agree that verifying a procede 60-100 time on a vbox would put this all to rest though.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by easy2speed

That would be the case if sac wasn't 2mph fast. So 4mph is easily within DA differences. You Shiv, need to run a vBox 60-100mph time and post the graph. Since most of your customers don't drag race and it seems many do 60-100 logs, this seems to be more appropriate for your customer base than you doing 1/4 runs. Make sure you pick a flat road and post the graph. I, along with many others, do not trust 80% you say.

So Sac is 2mph fast? Have you measured it yourself
with your own radar equipment? Did you find any info on the Internet about it being fast? Don't you find it silly that just because I go there, our competition is spreading rumor about timing equipment problems or lane discrepencies. But prior to that, there is no mention anywhere else of it being so?

Shiv

[Vince@ V K Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

So Sac is 2mph fast? Have you measured it yourself
with your own radar equipment? Did you find any info on the Internet about it being fast? Don't you find it silly that just because I go there, our competition is spreading rumor about timing equipment problems or lane discrepencies. But prior to that, there is no mention anywhere else of it being so?

Shiv

quite interesting...

I’m kind of confused as to the main topic of this thread. I first thought it had to do with the overall 60-100 times as a comparison, then I though it had to do with trying to determine a good test of speed 60-100 or 60-130, after that I thought it had to do with what test equipment to use, and now...I’m lost.

1) I think we should first take the numbers with a grain of salt.
2) Standardize a test that can be validated. I would propose we use a V-box since we can validate the information and then we should set up a sticky and have various setups and other cars to compare with too see where we are on the performance world. What set-ups give the best results and what real expectations are for the N54 platform.
3) Finally, we can begin to separate the facts from the marketing Bull-Sh** of vendors and fan-boys alike. Giving valuable intangible information to help progress the n54.

Just my thoughts. Happy V-day by the way.

[JerzeySux]

I have a vbox so anyone in the NY/NJ area who wants to try logging a procede with my vbox may do so. Shoot me a pm.

Shiv arent you in the area? Im willing to let you use my vbox for comparsion.

[easy2speed]

Yea I was there with my buddies' 9 sec GN and we measured it against a vbox on over 30 passes over a 2 day weekend - granted it was about 8-9 months ago. He actually has the premium vbox that retails around $2k not the pbox like I have. I put in my garmin gps after we started seeing a mph descrepency. The garmin reads the highest achieved mph not the averge of the last 66ft like the track does. The garmin was reading 0-0.8mph faster than the track on a car that traps 143mph. So to answer your question, yea I have verified that as much as possible.

[Malaka1]

Anyone else have some 60-100 times? I bought a Vbox and the best I can do in 65F weather just pump gas is 4.77 seconds...Which isn't bad according to this list
http://www.torquestats.com/index.php?pid=mph60_100 Same time as a 997 Turbo!

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Malaka1

Anyone else have some 60-100 times? I bought a Vbox and the best I can do in 65F weather just pump gas is 4.77 seconds...Which isn't bad according to this list
http://www.torquestats.com/index.php?pid=mph60_100 Same time as a 997 Turbo!

I have no idea how in the world a 335i could get in the 3's. Perhaps I can't get there because I have to shift into 4th gear before 100mph?

[Malaka1]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I have no idea how in the world a 335i could get in the 3's. Perhaps I can't get there because I have to shift into 4th gear before 100mph?

Is that time with meth or race gas?

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Malaka1

Is that time with meth or race gas?

Meth and some high octane Unocal pump gas mixed in, so about 96 octane.
With meth race gas doesn't seem to help that much. And conversely, I have run just as fast on race fuel (MS109) also. In fact that was my biggest disappointment with meth. As per my previously posted test results, I thought I would put in some race fuel and run a lot faster. Didn't happen. But the upside is you don't have to constantly pay for high price high octane anymore. Running both together is really more of a safety factor than anythiing. In cold weather, I have seen where the Meth Spray doesn't even seem to make much difference in IATs at first. But in hot temps, I think meth should give you an advantage.

But again, these guys that are getting into the 3's on the data logs, I would like to see how it compares to Vbox results. But I am still running the stock intercooler and stock catback, so I don't know how much of a handicap that presents.

Man, I just looked up some of those torque stat numbers. Don't some of those speeds seem really slow for those cars, and others that are ranked up near the top seem like they should be below some of those cars listed much lower? I thought some of those Lambos listed were in the wrong order too.

[Malaka1]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Meth and some high octane Unocal pump gas mixed in, so about 96 octane.
With meth race gas doesn't seem to help that much. And conversely, I have run just as fast on race fuel (MS109) also. In fact that was my biggest disappointment with meth. As per my previously posted test results, I thought I would put in some race fuel and run a lot faster. Didn't happen. But the upside is you don't have to constantly pay for high price high octane anymore. Running both together is really more of a safety factor than anythiing. In cold weather, I have seen where the Meth Spray doesn't even seem to make much difference in IATs at first. But in hot temps, I think meth should give you an advantage.

But again, these guys that are getting into the 3's on the data logs, I would like to see how it compares to Vbox results. But I am still running the stock intercooler and stock catback, so I don't know how much of a handicap that presents.

Man, I just looked up some of those torque stat numbers. Don't some of those speeds seem really slow for those cars, and others that are ranked up near the top seem like they should be below some of those cars listed much lower? I thought some of those Lambos listed were in the wrong order too.

Ya, I was looking through them again...and I am not sure how accurate those times are.