[antonio335]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Pentosin 5W-30, is doing just fine in my FSI Audi A6, which oddly enough, destroys oil more than my 335I. I've now bought this fluid for my 335I, and I'm going to run it next. Ironically, the best oil that my 335I has seen, so far is Total 5W-30 Ineo MC3, which oddly enough is LL-04. It kept temps lowest, even compared to the stealership oils. My real world findings on this are similar to Mr. 5's, which is why he started using I think Valvoline 5W-40, also LL04 approved.

ok the correct oil is * Pentosin High Performance 5W-30 is LL-01 approved>>>>///??? in your opinion

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

This is the stuff that is dangerous and typically posted by Turkey and others with no technical understanding of engines or oils. He has not conducted any objective scientific oil testing to determine the oils LUBRICATING performance in his engine. He does not have any technical basis to conclude the lubricating performance of any of the oils he has used. He is basing his oil lubrication performance assumptions on a UOA which does NOT tell you anything about how an oil LUBRICATES the engine.

This is precisely why people like Turkey are dangerous. They don't know what they don't know. They don't want to understand what they don't know if it refutes their meritless beliefs. Until Turkey conducts the LL-01 oil test he will not have ANY technical basis to conclude that any oil is better than another oil regarding lubrication performance in a BMW gas engine operated in the U.S.

Some of the test involved in the LL-01 oil test sequence that Turkey would need to conduct but has failed to conduct, include but are not limited to:

1. The CEC L-088-02 piston ring sticking test, The (TU5JP-L4) varnish test, and the 72 hour absolute viscosity increase at 40oC between min and max values during

2. The ASTM D6593-00 (Sequence VG) Under protocol & requirements for API test, Oil consumption during the test to determine
Average engine sludge
Rocker cover sludge
Average Piston skirt varnish
Average engine varnish
Comp. ring (hot stuck)
Oil screen clogging

3. The CEC L-038-94 (TU3M) to determine:
Cam wear, average
Cam wear, max.
Pad merit (Ave. of 8 pads

4. The CEC L-053-95 (M111) to determine: average engine sludge

5. The CEC L-093-04 (DV4TD) to determine: Absolute viscosity increase at
100oC and 6 % soot for piston merit

6. The CEC L–099-08 (OM646LA) to determine :
Cam wear outlet (avg. max. wear 8 cams)
Cam wear inlet (avg. max. wear 8 c.); (8)
Cylinder wear (avg. 4 cyl.); s. note (8)
Bore polishing (13 mm) - max. value of 4 cylinders
Tappet wear inlet (avg. max. wear 8 cams)
Tappet wear outlet (avg. max. wear 8cams)
Piston cleanliness (avg. 4 pistons)
Engine sludge avg.

These are just some of the proper oil LUBRICATION PERFORMANCE TESTS that need to be conducted to determine how an oil performs in an engine.

Turkey didn't conduct ANY oil LUBRICATION performance tests. He based his oil lubrication PERFORMANCE assumptions on a Used Oil Analysis test which does NOT measure oil LUBRICATION PERFORMANCE. A UOA tells you if the oil is still serviceable, NOT how the oil performs in actually lubricating the engine. This is the problem with Turkey and others who don't have the technical knowledge to understand oil lubrication performance. They try to use an improper $25 USED OIL ANALYSIS test to replace proper oil lubrication performance testing, which can not be done. The proper comprehensive car maker oil performance testing sequence such as the LL-01 takes months to conduct and test all aspects of oil lubrication performance in the engine.

Turkey has absolutely no objective, scientific, oil lubrication performance test data to reach any conclusion on any oils. His conclusion are baseless, meritless and dangerous at the very least.

This is why you should use the oil that your car maker REQUIRES and not listen to technically illiterate internet oil experts. (sic) They simply do not know what they don't know and that is VERY dangerous.

If you wonder where the above oil LUBRICATION performance tests come from, they are part of the ACEA oil certification requirements that all Euro car makers use with additional engine family specific oil tests. These tests are REQUIRED to determine how an oil actually lubricates your engine. All oils must pass these tests to be certified to ACEA or Euro car maker oil specifications. For reference the ACEA A3/B4 oil specs are the basis for many Euro car maker oil lubrication performance testing.

http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/fi...nces_Final.pdf

Now you now more FACTS regarding oil lubrication performance testing and why a UOA tells you nothing about how an oil actually performs in lubricating your engine. Oil lubrication performance tests tell you how the oil lubricates your engine. A UOA tells you if the oil can be used for a longer OCI, not how the oil lubricates your engine. Add this post to the FACTS listed in post # 64 and # 69 if you want the FACTS regarding the proper oil for your BMW engine.

Note: Bold, upper case and underlined type is for emphasis and for those with reading comprehension deficiencies.

[bryans2k]

thats a poor copy/paste job right there, uh huh... lol... just use the oil BMW has stated is certified and you will be fine. I don't get what the objective is from trying to prove these other oils will maybe or maybe not be fine. Are you guys bored? We have oils that are certified to work and work just fine. What's the point of this thread other than to debate something that at the end of the day is nothing but a copy/paste job from websites and no one's actual hands on testing results. So futile...

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Do some research on LL's. Everything that is LL04, IS LL01, but nothing that is LL01, is LL04. .

I'd like to see a proof of that please. A simple PDF from BMW will suffice. Thank you.

[jimk]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I'd like to see a proof of that please. A simple PDF from BMW will suffice. Thank you.

Read what's in the picture in post 95 above.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

This is precisely why people like Turkey are dangerous. They don't know what they don't know. They don't want to understand what they don't know if it refutes their meritless beliefs. Until Turkey conducts the LL-01 oil test he will not have ANY technical basis to conclude that any oil is better than another oil regarding lubrication performance in a BMW gas engine operated in the U.S.

I have a question for you about BMW gas engines. So the S54 which is used in the E46 M3, Z4 M, and E90 M3 uses Castrol 10W-60. Or at least thats what BMW NA stealerships are pouring in. However BMW(Castrol) 10W 60 is NOT BMW LL01 approved. Total 10W-50 IS BMW LL01 approved. Which oil should you use in any of the above stated cars? Why is the stealership using non LL01 approved oil?

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-O...s-and-Recs.pdf

Scroll down on that cart and see the marked X by S85, S62, and S54.

SO much for your "testing sequence".

[Turkeybaster115]

Still waiting for Rat to explain the above phenomenon!

Castrol 10W 60 widely used in BMW M engines, with no LL-anyting testing:
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...0_B1968_05.pdf

Very "Boutique Oilish" if you ask me.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by jimk

Read what's in the picture in post 95 above.

Yeah, I saw that just a minute after I posted. Cool.

[Turkeybaster115]

Still waiting for TrackRat to stop hiding, man up, and answer my question. If BMW is using 10-W60 in quite a few engines, without any type of LL approval, why then can one not use reputable, expensive, fully sythetic, "boutique oils" like amsoil, redline and royal purple in our cars?

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

^^^ I already answered your question in the other thread.

LL-01 oil specifications apply to oils with a viscosity between 0W-40 used in non-M engines. 0w-40 oils are not for M engines that use 10w-60 specific oils. You need to use the proper oil for a given application.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=Fuchs

The weight of the oil is negligable here, after all total, motul and several companies make BMW LL01 approved 10W-50. so NO, that doesn't answer my question. BMW's LL test must be performed on all oils, before they are used in BMW engines. This is your idea. Now please defend that stance where we see E46 M3/E90 M3/M5's/Z4M's etc.... not using BMW LL tested oils. Don't give me that its an M, because its BMW relabelled castrol 10W-60 used in these cars. So why doesn't castrol do the BMW LL test on this oil, like it does for some of its products?

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

You continue to prove that you're technically illiterate on oil testing. What part of the LL-01 oil spec is for oil viscosities between 0w-40, don't you understand??????? The BMW specific 10w-60 oil can have the proper LL-01 chemistry but it can not be approved as an LL-01 oil because it is outside the 0w-40 viscosity range that the LL-01 oil specs are written for.

Well, I could simply say, if BMW LL-01 testing is not required for anything higher than a 0W-40, why then did they perform it on Total, and Motul's 10W-50? But that would just be falling into your trap, and dodging the issue.

First you are completely ignorant about what the LL-01 testing sequence involves. You instead list tests done by the ACEA, which is not what the LL-01 sequence includes. Here is what the BMW LL-01 is:
"BMW LL-01 - Like the LL-98, also required to be ACEA A3, API SJ, and run a 370 hour test, but the test engine is now an M54 and compatibility with the valvetronic system is a specific test requirement. These oils tend to run a little bit lighter than the LL-98, with a Kvis100 range of 11.3 to 14.1, averaging about 12.3. HTHS averages about 3.6, TBN about 10.4, and density about 0.849."

So maybe running an oil in an M54 (2001 BMW 330CI) engine cannot ensure it will last in an E46 M3 engine (S54), or even a 335I engine (N54)?

[DieselDiner]

From the 2011 E90 Owner's Manual:

Approved oils can be identified by the following
specification:
Gasoline engine
Preferred: BMW Longlife-01
BMW Longlife-01 FE
Alternatively: BMW Longlife-98
Diesel engine
Preferred: BMW Longlife-04
Approved oils belong to the following viscosity
classes: SAE 0W-40, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-40
and SAE 5W-30.

Alternative oil types
If approved oils are not available, you can use
quantities of up to 1 US quart/1 liter of another
oil with the following specifications:
API SM or higher