[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Nice. But that AEM sensor looks alot like a Honeywell or SSI unit which it certainly is (maybe WIKA). Disappointed you didn't drop me a note as we have various units waiting to be tested.

Nice to see you back scalbert! You should come around more often

Regarding some other points raised in this thread, I'll respond later tonight when I have some more time. Up to my neck in msd81 code right now.

[Jake@MOTIV]

wasn't necessarily looking for a response to my post. Just for you to show more respect and not say things that aren't really true. Let your product sell itself instead of using misinformation to sell more. Yea - its a dog eat dog world but I know I give more business to companies that have integrity.

[M///1rider]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Thank you. But I think you are underestimating what it takes to tune a single turbo system at this power level. A flash, by itself, won't be able to do it. Nor with a juice box. Or anything else that is currently available. Selling hardware by itself is a good way to disappoint the user and create an expensive paper weight.

Very true but im sure after maybe a better fueling option a flash tune will be able to be ran.

If that fueling option every happens

But shiv when are those magazine reviews i wanna see people drool

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Nice to see you back scalbert! You should come around more often

Hey Shiv,

I hardly read the forums any longer as personal and business commitments take most of my time. I suppose that is a good problem to have. My "slow" and overpriced M3 has been trouble free and an joy to drive in the mountains. That said, an extra and linear 50+ HP would be welcome so I may come calling in the near future.

I have been popping in from time to time to see the progress on the N54 which is fantastic. Kudos to your excellent work as always. It is great to see the progress and success.

Now, if you want to check out other sensors, perhaps the same, drop me a note and I can probaly get you a few samples. I might be able to beat AEM's pricing as they certainly do not make it themselves.

[cupertinosteve]

@flylow335i - i don't think he's disrespecting anything, but stating the obvious ... You say you own a JB, you should know how it controls boost and do those methods apply here?With regards to a flash, what is it going to do when there is a single, external wastegate with different thresholds.

I think klipseracer nailed ... there were some modifications to the procede to get this to work, but it was easier (in software or use of free pins) for them since this platform was designed for a broader application (i.e. not just BMWs).

[cupertinosteve]

@scalbert - you should stick a PWM meth kit to your M3.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by cupertinosteve

@scalbert - you should stick a PWM meth kit to your M3.

That is a strong possibility. I am sourcing an x-pipe, pulley and intake (mainly to hear the intake better, not for power) and then a tune which will most likely be the PROcede and meth kit. Jut trying to decide if I want to refill or keep it simple.

[TMR]

Originally Posted by scalbert

That is a strong possibility. I am sourcing an x-pipe, pulley and intake (mainly to hear the intake better, not for power) and then a tune which will most likely be the PROcede and meth kit. Jut trying to decide if I want to refill or keep it simple.

DEFINITELY worth the ounce a week refill!! ( then again i drive 300 miles a week ) not to mention ive yet to get the low fluid light. I just fill up on the weekends and call it a day.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by TMR

DEFINITELY worth the ounce a week refill!! ( then again i drive 300 miles a week ) not to mention ive yet to get the low fluid light. I just fill up on the weekends and call it a day.

Thanks for the inspiration. I will keep that in mind.

Now back to the regular programming.

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by cupertinosteve

I think klipseracer nailed ... there were some modifications to the procede to get this to work, but it was easier (in software or use of free pins) for them since this platform was designed for a broader application (i.e. not just BMWs).

I am a very even playing field minded type of person. If I had my car and a kit was for sale, I'd buy the vishnu hands down. But the truth is, I am certain that the JB tune will be made capable to handle a single turbo as I already know they are working on and there are ways to internally gate a single turbo as well so I can say that a flash could make this work as well or in the least, provide a large supplemental role in the single turbo process. Shiv himself agrees with me to a degree by considering raising the rev limit. I think there is room here for everyone to make money! But again, Vishnu is doing it now, not later, this is a defining difference.

[Jake@MOTIV]

@cupertino - again no disrespect - but you do not seem to have the knowledge to argue this topic. There is no problem controlling a wastegate with a flash tune. Flash tunes have more than the ability to change tables and values. They can also add and change logic. This is why I requested shiv stop spreading misinformation and respect other tuners. I agree that JB# tune is not my first or second choice but you would be surprised at the abilities of flash tunes. This platform is unique because so many do use a piggyback. Flash tunes and standalones are my preference.

I am not bashing the procede. It is the best piggy back I have ever used and he has done a great job. I love haltechs. I have been using them since the original halwin software was basic and not standard ems software. I just prefer having access to the original tables and full access to tuning my car.

This thread is about shiv's idea of what works best for HIS setup (map sensor wise). I just wanted to see him stop disrespecting another vendor by spreading incorrect information about what it can and cannot do. I was respectful and still feel it was a very reasonable request. I am not associated with cobb or any tuning company here. I simply think it is horrible business practice to lie about another companies capabilities. I said it once I'll say it again - let the procede sell itself - you dont need to lie or bash another product to sell something if your product truly is worth its weight.

[themyst]

^ has been around a loooong time. He knows what he's talking about.

[New Guy]

:

Originally Posted by FlyLow335i

@cupertino - again no disrespect - but you do not seem to have the knowledge to argue this topic. There is no problem controlling a wastegate with a flash tune. Flash tunes have more than the ability to change tables and values. They can also add and change logic. This is why I requested shiv stop spreading misinformation and respect other tuners. I agree that JB# tune is not my first or second choice but you would be surprised at the abilities of flash tunes. This platform is unique because so many do use a piggyback. Flash tunes and standalones are my preference.

I am not bashing the procede. It is the best piggy back I have ever used and he has done a great job. I love haltechs. I have been using them since the original halwin software was basic and not standard ems software. I just prefer having access to the original tables and full access to tuning my car.

This thread is about shiv's idea of what works best for HIS setup (map sensor wise). I just wanted to see him stop disrespecting another vendor by spreading incorrect information about what it can and cannot do. I was respectful and still feel it was a very reasonable request. I am not associated with cobb or any tuning company here. I simply think it is horrible business practice to lie about another companies capabilities. I said it once I'll say it again - let the procede sell itself - you dont need to lie or bash another product to sell something if your product truly is worth its weight.

Very well said

[805beemer]

whats a matter shiv, cat got your tounge?

I can see why shiv hates cobb though. I mean they did run him out of the evo and sti scene. Now with cobb in the bmw market for a little over a year and and they already hold a majority of new tunes sales. So you can't blame shiv for his open cobb bashing, but you certinaly dont have to respect him.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by FlyLow335i

@cupertino - again no disrespect - but you do not seem to have the knowledge to argue this topic. There is no problem controlling a wastegate with a flash tune. Flash tunes have more than the ability to change tables and values. They can also add and change logic. This is why I requested shiv stop spreading misinformation and respect other tuners. I agree that JB# tune is not my first or second choice but you would be surprised at the abilities of flash tunes. This platform is unique because so many do use a piggyback. Flash tunes and standalones are my preference.

I am not bashing the procede. It is the best piggy back I have ever used and he has done a great job. I love haltechs. I have been using them since the original halwin software was basic and not standard ems software. I just prefer having access to the original tables and full access to tuning my car.

This thread is about shiv's idea of what works best for HIS setup (map sensor wise). I just wanted to see him stop disrespecting another vendor by spreading incorrect information about what it can and cannot do. I was respectful and still feel it was a very reasonable request. I am not associated with cobb or any tuning company here. I simply think it is horrible business practice to lie about another companies capabilities. I said it once I'll say it again - let the procede sell itself - you dont need to lie or bash another product to sell something if your product truly is worth its weight.

You can call me a liar on an internet forum. I've read you say worse on other forums. But while you are doing that, I'll keep on developing comprehensive engine control systems for this platform. That being said, I've been developing a flash since last year for the MSD80/81 with the hopes of it being the "basic" engine control option for our single turbo system.



So when I say what I say, i'm saying from personal experience based on actual testing. This means countless hours on the dyno, on the road and on the phone talking to many other flash tuning shops overseas. And as the only person who has experience with tuning single turbo N54s through both flash and Procede approaches, I'd like to think to my statements are justified. There are some advantages of MSD 80/81 ROM editing. Although perhaps not as many as you believe. But there are also many disadvantages as people are seeing with respect to just about every aspect of boost control, torque limit/actual deviation, and throttle reaction. And I'm not even talking about the obvious issues involved with rescaling load variables, integrating methanol control/monitoring and isolated boost control. We've done the work and learned the lessons. Others will do the same as their schedules/interests permit. Everyone who works with this DME knows how interdependent the tables/limits are and what compromises must be made to make things "work" on a basic level.

So let's leave name-calling for kids. Because kids don't do what we are doing. Instead, kids like to call other peoples names on internet forums.

Best Regards.
Shiv

[Jake@MOTIV]

Again - I go back to the topic of respect. I never said you didn't know what you were doing. I never said you were doing anything badly. I requested you simply leave putting another vender's abilities / products down. Also - that is a very limited number of tables. I am sure you have 100s more and that is just a short compiled list.

Instead of getting defensive you should have taken the compliments (ex: the procede is by far the most advance piggy I've ever used) and not become rude like you just did. Again - all I requested is you simply focus on your product and not voice your opinion on what is or isn't possible on other solutions. Thats common courtesy. I don't know why you are trying to bully someone who was making such a simple request.

[themyst]

So flylow says flash tunes have more than the ability to change tables and values, and you show us a screen shot of maybe 10% of the DME tables? What are you trying to prove? You should toy with ATP a bit and see what you're missing out on. It's not just tables and values.

Also, falsely assuming your competition does not have the ability your tune somehow does... IS lying. Think back to your FASTA "findings".

[805beemer]

So let me get this straight.

Stacking cobb + jb4= bad

stacking proceede flash tune + v5= just fine

[ichi_ban]

Shiv - PM price to me when you're ready! LOL

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by TeamSoloE93

Shiv - PM price to me when you're ready! LOL

Sorry but I need more hours in a day to keep up with PMs these days Shoot an email over to sales@vishnutuning.com and the sales guys can keep you in the loop via mailing list.

[cupertinosteve]

@flylow - i'll just drop the subject ... but the last thing i'll add, is that I know shiv has the competitor's products and keeps a very close eye on what they can and cannot do.

In general, here's my take ... there is an advantage working outside the system and there are different advantages working within the system ... if you do both, you (tuner) can decide what is best for your approach. When you have only one tool (inside or outside), then you try to solve everything with it.

Stacking two independent solutions on top of each other is probably not as good as stacking an inside-DME solution with an outside-DME solution from the same vendor.

I know Shiv has used flashing, piggyback and standalone systems (over a decade)... its safe to say he has more experience than most of us on this forum. Is he the best "tuner"? That's subjective.

But just because you have kitchen and recipe ... doesn't make you a chef. and if you're a chef, you can make some pretty good stuff with some basic goods.

[cupertinosteve]

@shiv - just ignore the forums and get back to work. the results speak for themselves