[Sniz]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

biggest change is we went with 1/4 charge rows and 1/4 ambient rows with a lower ambient fin density. yours is 1/4 charge rows and 3/8 ambient rows with higher fin density. all geometry, endtank,charge piping is constant!

did that result in a larger effective cooling area internally? Just curious, no plans here to change IC.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Sniz

did that result in a larger effective cooling area internally? Just curious, no plans here to change IC.

we gained 2 more charge rows in the process.

[michsu]

not to make a war against other brands.. but how does this compare to the AA or Spearco? I'm still looking for a good intercooler.. If I buy the intercooler, would that replace my air intake, or are those two things different?

[jcarlucci1]

Originally Posted by michsu

not to make a war against other brands.. but how does this compare to the AA or Spearco? I'm still looking for a good intercooler.. If I buy the intercooler, would that replace my air intake, or are those two things different?

Haha, hope thats not a serious question..but if it is, no, an intercooler does not replace your intake.

[michsu]

ok, thanks =) I have a low post so still learning about all this stuff... seems like the intercooler can lower temperatures (and lower boost) so you can increase the boost more?

[cipher5]

Looking forward to a Attaché and FMIC package deal!

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by cipher5

Looking forward to a Attaché and FMIC package deal!

ding ding ding ding

[michsu]

would I need to buy an intercooler now that I bought the MSDS Stage 1 / 2?? I would think that they both do the same job (according to what Shiv told me).. something about "free flow intakes".. I did a google search and found out that "free flow intakes" and "cold air intake" are the same... sorry about changing topics.. if I do need an intercooler, Helix might look good.. just need to compare against Spearco or AA..

[orientblue3]

Originally Posted by michsu

would I need to buy an intercooler now that I bought the MSDS Stage 1 / 2?? I would think that they both do the same job (according to what Shiv told me).. something about "free flow intakes".. I did a google search and found out that "free flow intakes" and "cold air intake" are the same... sorry about changing topics.. if I do need an intercooler, Helix might look good.. just need to compare against Spearco or AA..

That's not true at all. Read up on intakes and intercoolers.

[michsu]

found this

An intercooler is an air-to-air radiator located between the turbo-charger and the engine, that is used to cool the intake air prior to introducing it into the cylinders.

cold air intake pulls air (in a less restrictive way than the stock setup) from the outside into the engine; can be used on turbo or non-turbo engine.
intercooler cools compressed air between the turbo and the intake manifold; used only on turbocharged engines.

Hope this might help someone else as "dumb" as me... in other words, the air intake is from "outside (open air) to outside of engine", and the intercooler is from "outside of engine to cylinders".. is that right? so in essence, a "double cooling" process...

so which one do you guys recommend to get? (Spearco, Dinan (probably not), Helix, or AA)

[judec]

U're asking in a Helix thread, whether U should get spearco or aa or others? I see U can google, smart guy, now learn to use your brain.

[Bimmer335i07]

Mark, when will it be available? Or do I need to contact Eric?

[michsu]

look judec.. I"m just trying to help others.. dumbass.. You don't even seem to have a bimmer yet.. so what are you talking about? I'm actually trying to find people WHO DO.. I'm trying to actually LEARN about things.. it was just to give others who visit this topic more information about intercoolers and air intakes.. seems people still discuss this intercooler thing a lot..

[TheAcAvenger]

I'll give michsu credit for actually looking up what an intercooler were and what an intake is. Granted, I suppose he shouldve done that before he bought his MSDS intake? But at least you're putting in the effort, michsu.

To answer your question, we don't really know which one is the best yet. Not enough people have them to make a conclusive decision. Hence, that's why we follow threads like these. I'm a fan of what helix has done up to at this point and I've been reading their big Attache thread for a while, so I'll say that i'm confident that helix's final product should be a good one. That's not to say that stett's or spearco's wont be. But 1) there aren't enough dynos out there to show gains and 2) i'm not sure how well I can judge how effective an intercooler is in the middle of winter.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

heres a compilation of performance data for the Helix Intercooler:

stock intercooler at 13.5psi 63 degree ambient temps:
351whp
turbo outlet temperature- 228 degrees F(estimated using a 63 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 13.5 psi)
AIT temp- 129 degrees F
pre and post intercooler temp drop- 99 degrees F
Intercooler efficiency- 60%

Helix intercooler at 13.5psi 63 degree ambient temps:
372whp +22whp
turbo outlet temperature 228 degrees F(estimated using a 63 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 13.5 psi)
AIT temp- 75 degrees F - 54 degree drop over stock
pre and post intercooler temp drop- 153 degrees F
Intercooler efficiency- 93% - 33% improvement in efficiency over stock
Core pressure drop spec is .5psi at 450hp(600cfm) airflow

[michsu]

thanks for the numbers TTurboBullett... let me find some for the AA or Spearco.. then we can compare

Thanks TheACAvenger.. yeah, I should have done some more research.. just figured that it was one of the more popular air intakes.. but then I hear people say that air intakes don't really help the turbos very much =( maybe the intercooler would be much better at it... seems that way with the Helix numbers...

[judec]

Originally Posted by michsu

look judec.. I"m just trying to help others.. dumbass.. You don't even seem to have a bimmer yet.. so what are you talking about? I'm actually trying to find people WHO DO.. I'm trying to actually LEARN about things.. it was just to give others who visit this topic more information about intercoolers and air intakes.. seems people still discuss this intercooler thing a lot..

well no offense, dumbass, but U can pull my finger...

maybe I dont have a 335i YET, but I have my cars, have my experiences, have my know-how. Now let's put it the other way - how do U feel when anyone, even not having a 335i, knows 100 times more about the car like U? Not to mention some sci-fi terms like virtue and etiquette. How would U feel being the OP of this thread, a vendor of stuff, with some newbie jackass hijacking your thread with competition products?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by judec

well no offense, dumbass, but U can pull my finger...

maybe I dont have a 335i YET, but I have my cars, have my experiences, have my know-how. Now let's put it the other way - how do U feel when anyone, even not having a 335i, knows 100 times more about the car like U? Not to mention some sci-fi terms like virtue and etiquette. How would U feel being the OP of this thread, a vendor of stuff, with some newbie jackass hijacking your thread with competition products?

No hijack really, we would really like him to post the comparitive data between the other intercoolers(given by the respective manufacturers) and ours it may OPEN some eyes

this format may work, I'll list the Helix stats:

Install:
Fits in stock location- YES
requires no cutting,removal and/or permanent modification- Yes
Can it be installed without removing front Bumper- YES
Utilizes factory mounting points- Yes
Design:
More core volume than stock- Yes 56%
More Ambient face than stock- Yes 56%
More charge rows than stock(8)- Yes 13
Bar and Plate construction- Yes
Removes restrictive stock O ring connectors- Yes
Seals to factory radiator fan shroud so air is drawn through when car is not in motion- Yes
Performance:
Helix intercooler at 13.5psi 63 degree ambient temps:
372whp +22whp
turbo outlet temperature 228 degrees F(estimated using a 63 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 13.5 psi)
AIT temp- 75 degrees F - 54 degree drop over stock
pre and post intercooler temp drop- 153 degrees F
Intercooler efficiency- 93% - 33% improvement in efficiency over stock
Core pressure drop spec is .5psi at 450hp(600cfm) airflow
Price: $969





But I hear what your saying and thanks for looking out

[Orb]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

heres a compilation of performance data for the Helix Intercooler:

stock intercooler at 13.5psi 63 degree ambient temps:
351whp
turbo outlet temperature- 228 degrees F(estimated using a 63 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 13.5 psi)
AIT temp- 129 degrees F
pre and post intercooler temp drop- 99 degrees F
Intercooler efficiency- 60%

Helix intercooler at 13.5psi 63 degree ambient temps:
372whp +22whp
turbo outlet temperature 228 degrees F(estimated using a 63 degree ambient and 65% compressor efficiency at 13.5 psi)
AIT temp- 75 degrees F - 54 degree drop over stock
pre and post intercooler temp drop- 153 degrees F
Intercooler efficiency- 93% - 33% improvement in efficiency over stock
Core pressure drop spec is .5psi at 450hp(600cfm) airflow

It is great that you posted some data as not many vendors will. I assuming you turbo efficiency number is a guess for calculation but I think the trend might suggest it is lower but no one seems to know. I'm assuming the pressure drop is less than 0.5 PSI at 13.5 PSI inlet manifold boost pressure? Do you have estimate on volume changes from stock?

Orb

[pdjafari2]

TT you mention at 13.6 PSI..is this stock boost or running some sort of piggyback/flash??

I am simply wondering if its beneficial to run a larger/aftermarket FMIC with an otherwise stock engine outside of lower AIT temperatures?? Will I still get a few extra ponies ONLy installing an FMIC?? I mean I know I will only TRULY take FULL advantage of any larger/aftermarket FMIC IF I am running higher than stock boost...but I am just curious

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by pdjafari2

TT you mention at 13.6 PSI..is this stock boost or running some sort of piggyback/flash??

I am simply wondering if its beneficial to run a larger/aftermarket FMIC with an otherwise stock engine outside of lower AIT temperatures?? Will I still get a few extra ponies ONLy installing an FMIC?? I mean I know I will only TRULY take FULL advantage of any larger/aftermarket FMIC IF I am running higher than stock boost...but I am just curious

Stock boost is around 8psi or so...

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Orb

It is great that you posted some data as not many vendors will. I assuming you turbo efficiency number is a guess for calculation but I think the trend might suggest it is lower but no one seems to know. I'm assuming the pressure drop is less than 0.5 PSI at 13.5 PSI inlet manifold boost pressure? Do you have estimate on volume changes from stock?

Orb

At 372whp crank hp is about 425 so we are coming up on the .5 psi pressure loss in the core, now there is some pressure loss associated with the inlet and outlet tubing as well as the end tank but... the design of the cast endtanks are rounded and high flow so not much loss there. There are some mods I am going to be doing that will be pushing power(cfm) through the intercooler MUCH higher I may thread and tap some 1/8npt fitting into the endtanks for pressure probes as I am going to be probing all over the place. my car is going to have more probes than a weekend in area 51 as for the 65% compressor efficiency estimate I would have to say I was being very nice its probably closer to 60%... I think spearco posted pre intercooler temp at a certian boost data knowing this and the ambient temp I would know exact efficincy at that point going forward>>>> i could make a better estimate for higher or lower boost levels.