[Myrder]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Seems awfully weird that one of the biggest exchanges in the world would suddenly shut down and be offline for days. I mean if it was just "maintenance" as you claim, then surely there is a more elegant way to do so?

https://www.mtgox.com/

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Seems awfully weird that one of the biggest exchanges in the world would suddenly shut down and be offline for days. I mean if it was just "maintenance" as you claim, then surely there is a more elegant way to do so?

Also, don't confuse me for someone who doesn't support cryptoCurrency, I'm actually a supporter, but I am not a supporter of speculative investments. There is a difference.



Well no, but I'm certainly closer than 9 bitCoins.

It's not closed for maintenance
They found out there was a problem with the way they transferred bitcoins
Under certain circumstances, they would not get an ok that the transfer occurred
So they would retry
Ended up being all the transfers were succesful and they had sent multiple times what the initial transfer was
Which means they had to cover the shortfall

All investments other than putting your money in the bank are speculative
Every share you buy could go up and could crash
Which is why more people have lost in the stock market than anything else
Same applies to investing in a company
Or gold

Everything other than prostitutes is speculative
Some have different risks, and different rewards
That's really what it boils down to

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by kmarei

It's not closed for maintenance
They found out there was a problem with the way they transferred bitcoins
Under certain circumstances, they would not get an ok that the transfer occurred
So they would retry
Ended up being all the transfers were succesful and they had sent multiple times what the initial transfer was
Which means they had to cover the shortfall

Exactly! That shortfall happens to be $350,000,000 worth of BitCoins stolen because of inadequate transfer security at Mt.gox. You also failed to mention that this has been reported for MONTHS, and people have thought Mt.Gox's failure was imminent for weeks.

So tell me again how you're trying to portray it paints Mt.gox in any better light?

All investments other than putting your money in the bank are speculative

That is even slightly speculative in that Banks can fail, and have spectacularly, and FDIC only covers up to a certain amount in deposit guarantees.

Yes, all investments are speculative, and all poisons are poisonous. Some poisons give you a headache, and some kill you.

BitCoin is purely speculative at this point, a lethal type of poison that differs from other investments. Many BitCoin investors are only looking at price movement, and nothing else. Google is partially speculative, but it is a company that has and creates value other than speculative value in that the company is a leader in information gathering, targeted advertising, consumer and enterprise level software, and consumer devices. All of which have an intrinsic value that is not purely speculative. Based on the success of that business model, you can more or less predict the direction of the stock price in the company as long as you pay attention. That's why some people can gain $326 dollars per share in profit ($24,000+ total) and some people can barely break even on 9 bit coins after 2-3 months of work.

[MediaArtist]

Mt. Gox just filed for bankruptcy protection today.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...379087576.html

BitCoin exchange Mt. Gox said Friday it was filing for bankruptcy protection after losing almost 750,000 of its customers' bitcoins, marking the collapse of a marketplace that once dominated trading in the virtual currency.

The company said it also lost around 100,000 of its own bitcoins. Together, the lost bitcoins would be worth approximately $473 million at market prices charted by the CoinDesk bitcoin index...

Don't worry though, according to Kmarei:

Originally Posted by kmarei

again
if you read
it hasn't disappeared into thin air
when the site returns the bitcoins will still be there
they had issues with their transfer system, and some users were abusing that to profit
so they shut it down to figure out what the issue was
and they will be back

You still sure about that smart guy?

[Maestro]

I tell you some people need to think for themselves and stop listening to the hype. I been tracking this for years and I am sorry it did not pass the smell test, it look too good to be true and people were acting way too irrational about it.

The Governments are starting to look into this since criminals and big drug trafficers are starting to use these systems. The way law enforces have been successful at tracing illegal activities and putting people behind bars is to track the money, how did you think the government figured out who all was involved in 911, they tracked the money.

These cyber currencies do not allow them to track the money there is no trail to follow so they are not too happy about this. It just a matter of time before it all comes down and those who do not get out will loose.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Mt. Gox just filed for bankruptcy protection today.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...379087576.html



Don't worry though, according to Kmarei:


You still sure about that smart guy?

I was quoting what was written on their website
listen
obviously your time investing in google leaves you with a lot of free time
if you don't like them, don't invest in them
no one is forcing you to put your money in them

I like them, and I see crypto currencies as the way forward
and I choose to invest my money in them

many people have made tons of money on bitcoins
that is a fact
whether you like it or not
and yes its going through a rough phase now
just like a lot of companies had serious issues and went bankrupt
remember pan am? Enron? etc etc etc

[Myrder]

Originally Posted by kmarei

I was quoting what was written on their website
listen
obviously your time investing in google leaves you with a lot of free time
if you don't like them, don't invest in them
no one is forcing you to put your money in them

I like them, and I see crypto currencies as the way forward
and I choose to invest my money in them

many people have made tons of money on bitcoins
that is a fact
whether you like it or not
and yes its going through a rough phase now
just like a lot of companies had serious issues and went bankrupt
remember pan am? Enron? etc etc etc

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. - Mark Twain

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by kmarei

I was quoting what was written on their website
listen
obviously your time investing in google leaves you with a lot of free time
if you don't like them, don't invest in them
no one is forcing you to put your money in them

I like them, and I see crypto currencies as the way forward
and I choose to invest my money in them

Kmarei it's not about "like or dislike" it's about you being purposefully dishonest, and when you get called out on it, you start with the kiddy red herring tantrum "Oh you don't like crypto currency and you don't understand it."

You claimed the BitCoins from Mt.Gox would be perfectly safe and the site would be back up. If you didn't know that to be a fact, then why try to pass it off as a fact, just because their website said so despite all the overwhelming evidence pointing to the contrary?

Then insultingly, you continue to try and play BitCoin PR rep by trivializing nearly half a billion dollars in losses:

Originally Posted by kmarei

It's not closed for maintenance
They found out there was a problem with the way they transferred bitcoins
Under certain circumstances, they would not get an ok that the transfer occurred
So they would retry
Ended up being all the transfers were succesful and they had sent multiple times what the initial transfer was
Which means they had to cover the shortfall

If you don't like being called out for lying, don't be a liar, and don't parrot liars. It's pretty simple.

many people have made tons of money on bitcoins
that is a fact

Yes, and it's also a fact that a ton of people have also gotten wiped out, like everyone at Mt.Gox, and the numerous other exchanges that fold, or criminally disappear before anyone knows what's happening.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Kmarei it's not about "like or dislike" it's about you being purposefully dishonest, and when you get called out on it, you start with the kiddy red herring tantrum "Oh you don't like crypto currency and you don't understand it."

before you talk shit about someone
you better be ready to provide proof
how did you find out I was purposely being dishonest?
I did specifically say this info was from their website
not that I had insider knowledge
it's perfectly clear to me you have no basic understanding of cryptocurrencies
and your knee jerk reactions are typical of this

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

You claimed the BitCoins from Mt.Gox would be perfectly safe and the site would be back up. If you didn't know that to be a fact, then why try to pass it off as a fact, just because their website said so despite all the overwhelming evidence pointing to the contrary?

I did not "claim"
I simply said what was written on their website
I don't work for mtgox, nor have I ever dealt with them
I use coinbase

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Then insultingly, you continue to try and play BitCoin PR rep by trivializing nearly half a billion dollars in losses:

you mean the same way you are PR rep for the stock market and how you won god knows how much on google stock?
do you have any idea how many trillions have been lost in the stock market?

should I call you "purposefully dishonest" and a "liar" based on that?

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

If you don't like being called out for lying, don't be a liar, and don't parrot liars. It's pretty simple.

same applies to you

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Yes, and it's also a fact that a ton of people have also gotten wiped out, like everyone at Mt.Gox, and the numerous other exchanges that fold, or criminally disappear before anyone knows what's happening.

you mean the same as the countless millions of people who have gotten wiped out in the stock market?

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by Myrder

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. - Mark Twain

it's not denial, its trying to find out the truth
not like some of you here


here is the article I was quoting
http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/...Strategy-Draft

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by kmarei

before you talk shit about someone
you better be ready to provide proof
how did you find out I was purposely being dishonest?
I did specifically say this info was from their website
not that I had insider knowledge

But you were parroting their company line, which makes you a liar.

Example:

Person A: "Hey I heard EasyExchange was bankrupt! Their website is gone, and disappeared. Seems like they are in big trouble."

Kmarei: "again if you read it hasn't disappeared into thin air when the site returns the bitcoins will still be there they had issues with their transfer system, and some users were abusing that to profit so they shut it down to figure out what the issue was and they will be back."

You, Kmarei, are parroting something that is dishonest and it's clear the way you worded your statement that you were using their company line to say that Mt.Gox was perfectly fine and would be back, when the reality was the complete opposite.

Like I said, if you parrot liars, you become one yourself. That's purposefully being dishonest because you had no disclaimer, i.e - "I don't know if the information is accurate but their website says this." No you simply laid it out as if it was a fact that's why you are a dishonest person and a liar.

you mean the same way you are PR rep for the stock market and how you won god knows how much on google stock?
do you have any idea how many trillions have been lost in the stock market?

should I call you "purposefully dishonest" and a "liar" based on that?

What? I've never told anyone anything dishonest about Google, I simply made my stock pick public so people could see that I am not full of shit when I make my picks, I posted my pick MONTHS ago for all to see, and I'm simply showing actual gains that anyone can go and check for themselves. Go back and read my post from months ago in this thread, tell me where I am being purposefully a liar like you have done countless times, and have been exposed for doing so, in this thread?

I never said "Go buy Google now and make money" nor did I make any false claims about the company to hide or cloud the issue of their solvency as a company. How is that the same thing as you using the Mt.Gox company line to try and claim that the lost bitcoins were "safe"? That's completely different.

But I invite anyone on the forum to go back and read this thread, and find where I was being purposefully deceitful about any of my investments or where I mislead anyone about Google as a company. Then I invite the same people to go back and read the post from Kmarei where he's parroting that Mt.Gox would be fine and the coins were safe. Kmarei wants to embarrass himself a bit more in front of the forum, so why not indulge him?

But let me guess your canned response, "You hate cryptocurrency and don't understand it! Waah!" What a clown.

you mean the same as the countless millions of people who have gotten wiped out in the stock market?

Stocks, tulips, bitcoins. People get wiped out. The unlucky ones lose, the less unlucky break even, and the smart ones make money. That's how it is for ALL instruments of investment.

[Maestro]

kmarei,

I know noting about you, however, cyber currency is suppose to void of traditional institutional business by design and the fact this now has companies around it who are going bankrupt to protect their assets from the people who entrusted in them should tell you something.

I totally understand the whole cyber currency concept and understand it altruistic view of a better world. Yes people are making money on it, but not from hard work. They are making money on people being naive and greedy. The ones making all the money know it will not last so they continue to convince people to buy in and they hope to get out before it all falls apart.

There is no future in this game, the government will shut it all down, and it will go underground which make it useless at that point. The Government can not allow it to stand since it allow and promotes criminal activities.

It hings on the edge of being unethical, since most people who are getting in do not understand what drives up or down the value of the currency, it makes it worthless as currency if it is not stable enough to know how much it is going to cost you to buy something.

Case and point, those who bought in or traded in at $1200 last fall and who need to cash out or buy something today with that fall investment will only get around $200 today, so if they want to buy a $200 item today it actually just cost them $1200 that is ripping people off. Do not give me the stock market analogy, I haven investing for over 25 yrs and have make lots of money, but I do not pay my bills with stock investment, and most times I understand exactly what my investment is worth, and what drives it up and down so I can choose when to enter and exit. Most people do not have that choose on currency they use to live off. When the pay a bill they need to know that a $1 is $1 every day of the week.

The fact there are people like yourself hyping the whole concept tells me it does not pass the smell test. If it has to be hyped and it not completely obvious where the value is at then it does not smell good.

I have to agree with MediaArtist, on this points, you kept saying it would come back, just watch, you were making statements of fact which you had no facts on. As we all watch it did not come back and all the bitcoins in that company possession are gone. From what I read it was not necessarily hackers, that appears to be the cover story, it was their own system program which corrupted the transactions and data so any value anyone had there is gone. It was vaporized in a way, and if you have you coins there you can not say hey give me back what I had, since you now have no proof what was there.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

But you were parroting their company line, which makes you a liar.

Example:



You, Kmarei, are parroting something that is dishonest and it's clear the way you worded your statement that you were using their company line to say that Mt.Gox was perfectly fine and would be back, when the reality was the complete opposite.

Like I said, if you parrot liars, you become one yourself. That's purposefully being dishonest because you had no disclaimer, i.e - "I don't know if the information is accurate but their website says this." No you simply laid it out as if it was a fact that's why you are a dishonest person and a liar.



What? I've never told anyone anything dishonest about Google, I simply made my stock pick public so people could see that I am not full of shit when I make my picks, I posted my pick MONTHS ago for all to see, and I'm simply showing actual gains that anyone can go and check for themselves. Go back and read my post from months ago in this thread, tell me where I am being purposefully a liar like you have done countless times, and have been exposed for doing so, in this thread?

I never said "Go buy Google now and make money" nor did I make any false claims about the company to hide or cloud the issue of their solvency as a company. How is that the same thing as you using the Mt.Gox company line to try and claim that the lost bitcoins were "safe"? That's completely different.

But I invite anyone on the forum to go back and read this thread, and find where I was being purposefully deceitful about any of my investments or where I mislead anyone about Google as a company. Then I invite the same people to go back and read the post from Kmarei where he's parroting that Mt.Gox would be fine and the coins were safe. Kmarei wants to embarrass himself a bit more in front of the forum, so why not indulge him?

But let me guess your canned response, "You hate cryptocurrency and don't understand it! Waah!" What a clown.



Stocks, tulips, bitcoins. People get wiped out. The unlucky ones lose, the less unlucky break even, and the smart ones make money. That's how it is for ALL instruments of investment.

how old are you, if you don't mind my asking?

[ItsHectic]

I have a large amount invested in Bitcoin, a smaller amount invested in litecoin. And I trade altcoins with some pocket change for fun.

I consider it a long term investment and I am not emotionally involved in it, if I lose it all it doesnt bother me, members of my family have lost a lot more money or missed out on making larger amounts of money through bad investments, poor timing and missed opportunities.

I also have a buisiness model for a sort of crypto brokerage company on the line, its too early for it to work now but if crypto goes mainstream it should be popular.

[Myrder]

Originally Posted by kmarei

it's not denial, its trying to find out the truth
not like some of you here


here is the article I was quoting
http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/...Strategy-Draft

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by Maestro

kmarei,

I know noting about you, however, cyber currency is suppose to void of traditional institutional business by design and the fact this now has companies around it who are going bankrupt to protect their assets from the people who entrusted in them should tell you something.

it tells me the guys that started mtgox are dishonest
if you think that should tell us bitcoins are bad, you are very much mistaken
because for every mtgox, there are numerous companies like coinbase that are doing very well, and honour the people that invest with them.

Originally Posted by Maestro

I totally understand the whole cyber currency concept and understand it altruistic view of a better world. Yes people are making money on it, but not from hard work. They are making money on people being naive and greedy. The ones making all the money know it will not last so they continue to convince people to buy in and they hope to get out before it all falls apart.

and making money in the stock market is hard work?
the fact is bitcoin has been around for 5 years now
so it's not a fad, and many people have made tons of money on it
and many investers have put money in it
http://allthingsd.com/20131212/bitco...t-in-coinbase/

some people made money, some people lost money
that's part of investment

Originally Posted by Maestro

There is no future in this game, the government will shut it all down, and it will go underground which make it useless at that point. The Government can not allow it to stand since it allow and promotes criminal activities.

It hings on the edge of being unethical, since most people who are getting in do not understand what drives up or down the value of the currency, it makes it worthless as currency if it is not stable enough to know how much it is going to cost you to buy something.

well so far the US government sees it favorably
so what you said is speculation
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...coin-lovefest/

also the statement that most people getting into it don't understand is another speculative statement
I have met and talked to people that understand it very well
and have profited from it.
and for every investment vessel you have people who invest in it without a clear understanding of it.
same applies to the stock market

Originally Posted by Maestro

Case and point, those who bought in or traded in at $1200 last fall and who need to cash out or buy something today with that fall investment will only get around $200 today, so if they want to buy a $200 item today it actually just cost them $1200 that is ripping people off. Do not give me the stock market analogy, I haven investing for over 25 yrs and have make lots of money, but I do not pay my bills with stock investment, and most times I understand exactly what my investment is worth, and what drives it up and down so I can choose when to enter and exit. Most people do not have that choose on currency they use to live off. When the pay a bill they need to know that a $1 is $1 every day of the week.

The fact there are people like yourself hyping the whole concept tells me it does not pass the smell test. If it has to be hyped and it not completely obvious where the value is at then it does not smell good.

same applies to people who bought apple stock in fall of 2012 and wanted to cash out in april 2013
they bought at $700 and had to sell at $400

now if you were talking about CDs
then yes I would understand your point of view
thats guaranteed income, no surprises there

[Myrder]

Beanie Babies were popular for longer than 5 years... actually they are still made!

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by kmarei

how old are you, if you don't mind my asking?

Old enough to know that I wouldn't drop $12k to $15k on BitCoin mining machines.

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/201...in-mining.html

And it gets worse as time goes on.

9 BitCoins.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Of course, my Google call which I documented here months ago ... is up $326 per share since I bought, and I'm up over $24,000 in a little less than 6 months. I didn't have to buy a $15,000 mining machine, I didn't have to spend time making sure it kept running, or wasting electricity, or worrying that all my BitCoin would be stolen, or lost in huge insolvent exchange. Nope, just sat here on my computer clicking my mouse a few times.

Originally Posted by kmarei

again i'm not getting a fleet of M cars
anymore than you are with the money you made on google stock
but at least I am open minded enough to try new things

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Old enough to know that I wouldn't drop $12k to $15k on BitCoin mining machines.

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/201...in-mining.html

And it gets worse as time goes on.

9 BitCoins.

MediaArtist, you sound more like a 10yr old than anything else.

Maybe you're looking for this?



Why don't you take your negativity elsewhere and let those who are invested (i.e. adults) enjoy? Whether you agree with it or not is really irrelevant to the OP's original question. And you're certainly not anyone's conscience here, so give it up.

[Maestro]

kmarei,

The fact you are talking about bitcoin as an invest show you do not understand its purpose. It was developed as a currency not as an investment vehicle, Yes people trade currenceis to make money but they are looking for albatross situation which allow you to make money on exchange rated difference. You can not buy a $ today and sell it for 10X$ tomorrow or anytime in the future. I have US $'s from the 1930's which are silver certificated so they were originally back in silver at the time, if I go to the bank or store today, I can only buy a $ worth of product with it and I can not get the 1930 worth of silver for it today which would be about 3 oz or $60 today value.

Bitcoin was develop as replacement of the current hard currency we have today and to be a peer to peer transaction which eliminated banks and exchanges and the such. it was suppose to allow people to make purchases of durable goods and service without having to pay fees and interests to banks and credit card companies.

But people who are looking to make a fast buck turn a currency into an investment vehicle then hype it to get other to keep buying in. It was never intended to be bough and sold as a commodity. The people who are making money at this know the only way to drive up the value is to make sure more and more people keep coming in so demand is higher than supply.

Also your stock analogy is wrong, people do not pay bills and buy goods and services with Apple stock they pay with $. The mere fact that merchant accept bitcoins tell you it is not an investment or security it is currency since this is the only acceptable way to buy product in the world. You know it is illegal in the US to buy something with gold or any precious metals unless it is minted into a coin, you can not trade securities for durable goods or services either. So bitcoin is not an investment never was intended to be an investment.

Last your stupid link about senate hearing on bitcoin proves nothing about whether the US government is bought in they are just learning what is about. The FBI and such are very worry they can not track terrorist financial transactions because of cyber money, and there is lots of conversation about money laundering through cyber money systems, If the government can not track the money they will shut it down or make it illegal to transact it, like some countries are starting to do. Yeah the government maybe interested in but it will be highly regulated and traceable when they are done with it. No government will allow black market currency systems to exist which people can hide their assets and net worth if you believe this you are naive.

I would not said the owner of MT Gox is dishonest, it sounds like this program screw up and you all lost value because his screwed up program. It could have been an honest mistake, but it all open source programming and there is no trust system in place.

http://www.dailytech.com/The%20Death...ticle34390.htm

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by johanness

MediaArtist, you sound more like a 10yr old than anything else.

Maybe you're looking for this?



Why don't you take your negativity elsewhere and let those who are invested (i.e. adults) enjoy? Whether you agree with it or not is really irrelevant to the OP's original question. And you're certainly not anyone's conscience here, so give it up.

I love how these BitCoin investors are so angry at me. The hate is swelling in you now. Take your CryptoCurrency. Use it. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

I love how these BitCoin investors are so angry at me. The hate is swelling in you now. Take your CryptoCurrency. Use it. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant.

Actually you can buy it cheap now, let see if they are willing to sell you some, lets see how long they hold it, depends on their faith in it. At some point you have to cut your loss and move on, I do it all the time in the market, you can hope it comes back or move to something you know will make you money in the mean time.