[dixy2k]

I understand your frustration.
After almost two months at the dealership, it doesn't stick to me anymore. I just don't care about it anymore.
The dealer has not contacted me for the past 10 days or more.

I got to get rid of the car before the warranty (70k mile) expires. I don't see the point in paying for BMW's mistakes.

[r.carson]

I feel you brother...but when I saw my car on the ground put back together (predetailed even) it just looked so much better than all the loaners I've been driving; way more fun to drive too.

I would have gotten rid of it if they offered anyway near market value for their "buy back" BMW came with $3k and the dealership offered $19k for a Le Mans M-Sport with 40k mi; sales side of things would have liked me to spend $80k in the last 36 months to be in an entry level BMW. 36 months from now I'm either out another $25k and have a year left of standard warranty or out out of pocket $0 and have a year of an extended warranty...no brainer for me. If driving a loaner is the worst thing I have to complain about, I'm doing ok. On the flip side maintenance actually seemed apologetic and wanted to make me happy.

In conclusion, Nov. 2017 I will be willing to give the car away for peanuts as I've had my fun and drained the value out it. By then Tesla will be in full force in America, made in the USA baby!

First and last BMW I'll ever own; most expensive car I've bought and most troublesome...and I own 74 bronco and a 72 Karmann Ghia that don't total the cost or downtime put together. Shameless plug for my Ghia...I love this car!

[daveN007]

Originally Posted by r.carson

That is an amazing looking car.

I have been thinking of getting a 1989 Carrera Cabriolet as a "rest of my life" car.
Like this one:

[dixy2k]

Keeping up with the convertible theme

[Jhayd11]

For those looking to get BMW to pay attention to the matter, I have had a few reps call regarding this post and my email to BMW NA.

Consistently, even with my conversations at the dealership and with my own issues months ago, BMW relies more on the reports coming in from their tech's. The best thing to do is make sure that you get BMW NA involved if you have an CBU issue, and have BMW dealer do the work, hopefully at the expense of BMW NA.

Between the guys getting the fix early and under warranty, and the guys like me making a stink out of warranty, it should draw some attraction to get BMW corp to find a better repair/prevention tactic.

[rockbien]

My Saga:

I have been struggling with SES issues since the beginning of September. Two codes have persisted through numerous visits - P0101 and P0402. It seems like every time I pick it up they assure me that they got the problem this time. Without fail, SES is back within a week. So far since September they have replaced the maf, 6 injectors, vacuum lines, egr valve, egr sensor, and the intake hose. The most recent SES came back with the diagnosis of carbon build-up. I dropped the car off 4 weeks ago and as of last week it is still in pieces in the shop.

My SA doesn't return calls now so I am resigned to driving to the dealership if I need an update feeling like I am crashing some party when I walk through the door and the SA sees me. They have been good about providing a loaner for the most part, and I only paid for the initial diagnostic in early September. However I had to show the SA that the injectors were covered under the carb warranty to get them to cover that repair.

I'm not yet sure if this is just the typical diagnostic procedure that the dealerships follow (fix the lowest, cheapest hanging fruit first) or if they are just inexperienced with the 335d at this dealership and are taking stabs at potential fixes. I'm not even sure if cleaning the carbon out of the intake/head will fix the SES issues at this point.

One of the biggest dilemmas that I (and it seems many here) am facing is whether or not I can afford to own this car out of warranty. It has only 52K miles on it and I didn't opt for the extended warranty. Now I am ineligible for the BMW extended warranty. Had these issues cropped up before 50K I would have definitely purchased the warranty. Now I am feeling betrayed by the finest car I've owned. My brain says to get rid of the d, my heart wants to go on long drives and flog it from the lights.

Would I recommend this car to a friend? At this point - No.

[dixy2k]

Did you have to pay for the EGR valve?
My SA told my it is not covered under the emission warranty.

[rockbien]

Originally Posted by dixy2k

Did you have to pay for the EGR valve?
My SA told my it is not covered under the emission warranty.

I didn't pay. It should be covered. Read page 35 in the service and warranty booklet:

http://www.chapmanbmw.com/PDF/servic...ty_booklet.pdf

It basically says that if you fail an emissions check in a carb state the failing part is covered up to 7yrs/70k

[rockbien]

Just re-read the booklet. Looks like the egr is not on the list of covered parts to 7/70k. I guess mine was a goodwill repair.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Mark M

...
However, not sure I agree with the notion that there are 25k 335ds. Based on the attached, I'd suspect the number to be more like 10 to 13k.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

You may be right - ...

TDIwyse posted a wonderful link to some data that BMW sent to the EPA/NHTSA (regarding fuel pump problems, prompted by consumer complaints and VW problems):

Model Model Year US Production
335d 2009 1,104
335d 2010 1,732
335d 2011 7,043
X5 xDrive35d 2009 2,767
X5 xDrive35d 2010 4,934
X5 xDrive35d 2011 10,445
X5 xDrive35d 2012 1,963

The full links are in the "Biodiesel" thread at http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...55&postcount=8
There are a few tidbits about warranty claims in there; but nothing on CBU.

[Mark M]

Interesting Floyd, thanks for that bit of data. Looks like less than 10,000 335d cars in the country.

I guess I tend to be subconsciously drawn to the rare cars. I also have an e30 M3 in the garage.

[ficklerx]

Originally Posted by Mark M

Looks like less than 10,000 335d cars in the country.

Interesting, especially when you consider the the next number.

Originally Posted by Mark M

2. Dealer confirmed there are currently 251 intake manifolds on back order across the US right now.

Based on just those two numbers, ~2.5% of total production is currently affected. The sales number is real. For sake of argument, I assume that the back order figure is correct. But I am biased since mine is one of the 251.

If you also believe that this problem is primarily occurring in the 40k-50k miles range, what is the real percentage of units that have or will experience this? The mileage represents about 3 years of driving for ages 20-60. The 2011 models are starting to enter this zone now. If we assume that 2.5% of those awaiting intakes today are primarily '09s and '10s, the numbers will at least triple as the '11s get older.

The worst part is this is just a symptomatic repair, not a cure.

[montr]

Originally Posted by ficklerx

Interesting, especially when you consider the the next number.



Based on just those two numbers, ~2.5% of total production is currently affected. The sales number is real. For sake of argument, I assume that the back order figure is correct. But I am biased since mine is one of the 251.

If you also believe that this problem is primarily occurring in the 40k-50k miles range, what is the real percentage of units that have or will experience this? The mileage represents about 3 years of driving for ages 20-60. The 2011 models are starting to enter this zone now. If we assume that 2.5% of those awaiting intakes today are primarily '09s and '10s, the numbers will at least triple as the '11s get older.

The worst part is this is just a symptomatic repair, not a cure.

It is likely that it is above 251. This is only considering backordered intake manifold.

[335dFan]

A while ago someone, in some forum, posted an opinion or statistic (I don't remember which) about how big a percentage of the population in question has to be before a manufacturer will either take notice or be forced to take notice and do something. The problem with this CBU is that I don't see what BMW's practical options are at this point. They cannot afford ($$$) to redesign the physical aspects of the car to avoid the problem and yet still meet the emission standards, or can they? Fortunately for them this is a relatively small part of their business (US 335Ds) and I would guess they hope they have made the proper adjustments to the 328d and 535d. The thing is, the 328d and 535d design had to have been baselined before 335d problems starting reaching critical mass, right? Given their options, I can see why they are trying to apply band-aids to the problem rather than do something more comprehensive and costly. Perhaps a solid cleaning mechanism would be the best solution for them. Whether it is for us or not depends on how the costs are allocated. I'd hate to be in the BMW hierarchy on this issue. But maybe it is just noise to them? Of course it isn't just noise if they can't sell the new diesels here. It's interesting how they have not abandoned diesels in the USA yet and they are also investing heavily in the i Series. Any other thoughts?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by 335dFan

A while ago someone, in some forum, posted an opinion or statistic (I don't remember which) about how big a percentage of the population in question has to be before a manufacturer will either take notice or be forced to take notice and do something. The problem with this CBU is that I don't see what BMW's practical options are at this point. They cannot afford ($$$) to redesign the physical aspects of the car to avoid the problem and yet still meet the emission standards, or can they? Fortunately for them this is a relatively small part of their business (US 335Ds) and I would guess they hope they have made the proper adjustments to the 328d and 535d. The thing is, the 328d and 535d design had to have been baselined before 335d problems starting reaching critical mass, right? Given their options, I can see why they are trying to apply band-aids to the problem rather than do something more comprehensive and costly. Perhaps a solid cleaning mechanism would be the best solution for them. Whether it is for us or not depends on how the costs are allocated. I'd hate to be in the BMW hierarchy on this issue. But maybe it is just noise to them? Of course it isn't just noise if they can't sell the new diesels here. It's interesting how they have not abandoned diesels in the USA yet and they are also investing heavily in the i Series. Any other thoughts?

Great post! Being that this is a diesel w/EGR I would be surprised if they redesigned the head. That would cost major bucks because this engine is no longer manufactured.

Maybe a silent recall with a cut off like Lexus has done in the past?

I really wish we had bore scope pictures of a clean head. I wonder if it was possible to shave off the curves of the runners.

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by 335dFan

A while ago someone, in some forum, posted an opinion or statistic (I don't remember which) about how big a percentage of the population in question has to be before a manufacturer will either take notice or be forced to take notice and do something. The problem with this CBU is that I don't see what BMW's practical options are at this point. They cannot afford ($$$) to redesign the physical aspects of the car to avoid the problem and yet still meet the emission standards, or can they? Fortunately for them this is a relatively small part of their business (US 335Ds) and I would guess they hope they have made the proper adjustments to the 328d and 535d. The thing is, the 328d and 535d design had to have been baselined before 335d problems starting reaching critical mass, right? Given their options, I can see why they are trying to apply band-aids to the problem rather than do something more comprehensive and costly. Perhaps a solid cleaning mechanism would be the best solution for them. Whether it is for us or not depends on how the costs are allocated. I'd hate to be in the BMW hierarchy on this issue. But maybe it is just noise to them? Of course it isn't just noise if they can't sell the new diesels here. It's interesting how they have not abandoned diesels in the USA yet and they are also investing heavily in the i Series. Any other thoughts?

Not necessarily a factor on those N57 models. In fact its apparently not a factor on other older M57 models. This engine has been around for about 13 years at this point!

[335dFan]

Originally Posted by taibanl

Not necessarily a factor on those N57 models. In fact its apparently not a factor on other older M57 models. This engine has been around for about 13 years at this point!

????

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by 335dFan

????

The Advanced Diesel with Blue Performance document dates the M57 to '98.

[335dFan]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

The Advanced Diesel with Blue Performance document dates the M57 to '98.

I'm trying to understand the implications of this. It is not unreasonable to assume that the geometry of the intake and flow of fuel and air has not changed since '98. If that is the case, then we must lay the blame for the "apparent" premature CBU problems on something that was changed since '98 that feeds the fuel and air flow. Which to this simple observer seems to the peculiarities of the USA emissions equipment, principally the EGR I guess. Which brings me back to my original suggestion that BMW appears to be constrained by standards concerning what their options are.

Clearly, my comments assume that there is a problem. Not everyone agrees with that, inasmuch as some have apparently had zero problems up into the 100k mileage point. I haven't for sure, but I am only at 28k. So back to my original somewhat rhetorical question: what is the percentage of owners with problems cropping up at 40-60k, and what does that percentage have to be before a reasonable observer would say enough is enough?

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by 335dFan

I'm trying to understand the implications of this. It is not unreasonable to assume that the geometry of the intake and flow of fuel and air has not changed since '98...

There have been several models since then, of course. But the document doesn't totally describe them (only in gross terms of displacement and hp/tq.) However, I suspect that EGR was used on most if not all of them.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by 335dFan

I'm trying to understand the implications of this. It is not unreasonable to assume that the geometry of the intake and flow of fuel and air has not changed since '98. If that is the case, then we must lay the blame for the "apparent" premature CBU problems on something that was changed since '98 that feeds the fuel and air flow. Which to this simple observer seems to the peculiarities of the USA emissions equipment, principally the EGR I guess. Which brings me back to my original suggestion that BMW appears to be constrained by standards concerning what their options are.

Clearly, my comments assume that there is a problem. Not everyone agrees with that, inasmuch as some have apparently had zero problems up into the 100k mileage point. I haven't for sure, but I am only at 28k. So back to my original somewhat rhetorical question: what is the percentage of owners with problems cropping up at 40-60k, and what does that percentage have to be before a reasonable observer would say enough is enough?

Well the amount of fuel and air has definitely changed no? I tried searching Euro forums on CBU and TBH I only found maybe 2 which were specific to CBU.

Now of course I'm sure there are more but they're old and probability too difficult to find due to their age. I've asked about the CBU issue in the Euro & UK sections of this site and did not get an answer either. Does it mean that they don't have this issue? I dunno. Would it be wise to compare a lower powered M57 to ours? Probably not.

All models have EGR I believe and DPF was at least 2006 (per RealOEM).


Now I did quiet a bit of research in 2008 on this car and TBH the only "common" issues were swirl flaps and red hose boost leak. Nothing about CBU. Only VW TDI and Ford 6.0 wore the CBU crowns at the time.

It really seems that this is a US issue. I wonder if it's tied to the programming of the, at the time, newer DDE? I wonder if there was a situation where say EGR would remain open during DPF regeneration and although the problem was later on fixed the damage was done on some cars?

[Jbwhiton]

Hey guys,
I know its been awhile since anyone posted on here but I want to fill everyone in on an inside look. We had ses light for carbon buildup and local shop removed intake and cleaned out the passages of the head. Sounded like a carb cleaner and brush method. Either way it worked, and we have had it back issue free for months. Since they didn't clean the egr valve, I took it out and cleaned it. It was packed at 88k miles. I also cleaned the oil out of the intercooler and Hoses. I also put a washer in between egr cooler and valve. It stopped about 95% of the soot. Our mileage instantly jumped but it eventually trips a ses for egr. I pulled it to check the washer and there was a ton of new soot. Otherwise runs butter smooth, and keeps up with m5s and kicked a new gt mustang back to school. Anyone who wants help figuring out issues feel free to contact, as I've got a pretty good handle on how this thing works. Also an additive and cetane booster is a no brainer as no one on the power stroke with worse injector issues didn't achieve better injector performance when using it. It also helps for a more complete burn. Otherwise this is a solid machine and should last a very long time!