[5against8]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The other thing is, with the size of the luxury coupe market shrinking slowly but surely, these new products seem strangely ill timed. Its marketing gymnastics to keep them from overlapping too much with each other.


Will BMW be in the same spot? Too early to tell. It all seems a bit fragile though.

I wonder how much CLAR/35up helps BMW with this to reduce cost (and I don't know if MB/AMG has anything similar). Supposedly all G0X, G1X, G2X, G3X and F9X will have some sort of shared architecture, which might shift the break-even point down a bit for a given niche model.

Either way, BMW should position an M car to compete with the 911 imo. Either by moving the next base M4 slightly upmarket or with the "new M6". Or should i say "continue to position". The F82 did beat the base 991 in a C&D comparo, and this is the same C&D that's been increasingly harsh of F8Xs as of late.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by maragulon

^E coupe will have E43 and E55 models

Later. There is an I6 model coming in a year or two which may very well wear the E55 name. Don't know about an E43 when the E400 is here already. No other model in the lineup is offered as both (in the US, which is where I refer to, to be clear).

In any case, it's still a weird situation right now, in the present.

Originally Posted by 5against8

I wonder how much CLAR/35up helps BMW with this to reduce cost (and I don't know if MB/AMG has anything similar). Supposedly all G0X, G1X, G2X, G3X and F9X will have some sort of shared architecture, which might shift the break-even point down a bit for a given niche model.

Mercedes has something very similar: MRA. Although they separate the SUVs to a relative called MHA.

Either way, BMW should position an M car to compete with the 911 imo. Either by moving the next base M4 slightly upmarket or with the "new M6". Or should i say "continue to position". The F82 did beat the base 991 in a C&D comparo, and this is the same C&D that's been increasingly harsh of F8Xs as of late.

But a sports car ought to sit within the Z family of products. Why cloud the message of the proper passenger car family with a dedicated performance car?

As I've related in the past, I doubt that the new 6 will genuinely be a sports car like a 911. We'll see what they cook up, but I strongly suspect a product targeted at a demographic closer to the personal luxury coupe market than a true driving enthusiast.

[5against8]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

But a sports car ought to sit within the Z family of products. Why cloud the message of the proper passenger car family with a dedicated performance car?

I could probably argue this one both ways. Is the base M4 a "proper sports car"? Good points though. Do we think there would ever be a 2+2 Z car? Not that it needs to be, most cars that compete with the 911 aren't.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 5against8

I could probably argue this one both ways. Is the base M4 a "proper sports car"? Good points though. Do we think there would ever be a 2+2 Z car? Not that it needs to be, most cars that compete with the 911 aren't.

Yeah, this one has been debated at length a number of times, and you can certainly make arguments either way. I'm hoping we can not rehash it here because I don't want to see this thread go OT. But here's the synopsis.

What it comes down to is that the definitions make more sense if you think of a sports car as ground up effort. A 911, regardless of what engine and suspension you put under it (within reason of course - you can sabotage anything by being deliberately obtuse) is a sports car. A 4 Series? As in, the lowest 420d? Not a sports car. So then, you can't call the M4 a sports car because then someone says no, but wait, the 440i qualifies too, and the next guy says only the M4 GTS qualifies - not the standard M4.

There are sport sedans, sport coupes, sport hatches, and some of them are brutally fast and amazing on the track and some can even perform like some of the great sports cars out there. And then there are sports cars built from the ground up to be just that with passenger hauling traded for speed and agility.

If we move away from the thinking that a car must be called a sports car to be considered a legitimate performance machine (take the ego out of it) the definitions start to make a whole lot of sense.

[MadViper]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Shanghai in April. But they will be launched on the eve of the show at the huge M Event held before a major Chinese show.

Scott,
Do you know when the M2 LCI and the M2 Competition will be launched?

[ynguldyn]

We now know what's inside X3M.

[squeaky]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

We now know what's inside X3M.

What?

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by squeaky

What?

First Page.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

We now know what's inside X3M.

F97 X3M will start production as a MY2020 vehicle (expect early 2019 intro) and will debut S58 making 450-460hp.

So the S55 will indeed give way to a new S58. And you'll be able to get an X3 M with more power than the M4 in the same showroom (M3 will already be out of production). Any indication yet if the X4 M will launch with the X3 M? It seems likely since the Series X4 will have launched in 2018.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that the next generation M3/M4 will use the same engine, perhaps with more power. It would be great to see the next M3 by 2020, but I don't think they'll let it out the door before the current M4 is done.

[2M]

Whats up with the bmw chassis codes? Like in the beginning there were so many cars named under the E chassis, then there was only one F car in each series and BMW is going to G already? I thought they'd do something like : F12 F28 F34 F39 F60 for the 5's. Instead there was only 1 F chassis for the 5 series - F10. Now the G's are out and the M5 is an F90. Back in the day the M5 would have been G30 M. Am I the only one confused with these chassis codes?

[BimmerMat135]

Any chance to see the B58/S58 in the F87?

[brad850csi]

"M8: F91 Cab, F92 Coupe, F93 GC. Coming in 2019-2020"

So the 6 gets renamed 8 basically.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

We now know what's inside X3M.

Man, that is gonna be a fun little Monster.

Long time to wait though - too bad it will be 2 more years.

[remmib]

Originally Posted by 2M

Whats up with the bmw chassis codes? Like in the beginning there were so many cars named under the E chassis, then there was only one F car in each series and BMW is going to G already? I thought they'd do something like : F12 F28 F34 F39 F60 for the 5's. Instead there was only 1 F chassis for the 5 series - F10. Now the G's are out and the M5 is an F90. Back in the day the M5 would have been G30 M. Am I the only one confused with these chassis codes?

F80 to F99 are reserved for M cars now I believe.

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

* Some specifics regarding US spec 2018 M4 CS: standard DCT

[emulajavi]

Originally Posted by 2M

Whats up with the bmw chassis codes? Like in the beginning there were so many cars named under the E chassis, then there was only one F car in each series and BMW is going to G already? I thought they'd do something like : F12 F28 F34 F39 F60 for the 5's. Instead there was only 1 F chassis for the 5 series - F10. Now the G's are out and the M5 is an F90. Back in the day the M5 would have been G30 M. Am I the only one confused with these chassis codes?

I agree. With the introduction of the F letter it seemed they could make things more clear but now it's a mess.

It'd be better if they'd stick to something like
Letter (generation) + 1digit (series) + 1digit (variation inside series).

A new letter would be introduced with every 7-series, which is the car that always introduces a new design language, new chasis, new technology, etc...

So, for example:

H70 (next generation -2022- 7-series short wheelbase)
H71 (... long wheelbase)
H72 (X7)

H50 (next generation -2023- 5 series)
H51 (.... wagon)
H52 (M5)
H53 (X5)
H54 (X5M)


H40 (4 series Coupe)
H41 (4 series Convertible)
H42 (4 series Gran Coupe)
H43 (M4 series Coupe)
H46 (X4)
H47 (X4M)

And so on....

Each new 7 series will introduce a new letter every 6-7 years (H, J, K, L). Ten variations for each series is more than enough. They have room to introduce or eliminate chasis variations on each generation.

- MINIs would use H01, H02, etc, and since there are not 9 different MINI chasis it'd be sufficient. Also they could get the M letter for them, and use 10 numbers for each generation.
- RR could get the H90, H91, etc or get their own RR01, RR02 etc for them.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by remmib

F80 to F99 are reserved for M cars now I believe.

If that's true that only leaves room for 20 M Car models then.

I guess it could make sense, when laws catch up with Autonomous Cars technology, and makes human driving completely illegal in the future, thus ending all sport car production for ever.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by 2M

Whats up with the bmw chassis codes? Like in the beginning there were so many cars named under the E chassis, then there was only one F car in each series and BMW is going to G already? I thought they'd do something like : F12 F28 F34 F39 F60 for the 5's. Instead there was only 1 F chassis for the 5 series - F10. Now the G's are out and the M5 is an F90. Back in the day the M5 would have been G30 M. Am I the only one confused with these chassis codes?

What difference does it make now?... There was never a pattern or logic to the codes at any point in the past, and there still isn't... The F30 and E30 is only example I can think of where a model got the same numbers as a previous generation... so now, just like the past, you'll simply have to remember each of them... it's not confusing, it just becomes a bigger task to remember them all since with each generation there are additional models as well as replacement models.

[ORIGIN M.]

Yes it is likely.

I think it will go something like this.

M2=B58
M2 CS=S55

M4=S55
M4 CS=S58

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Any chance to see the B58/S58 in the F87?

[aajami]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

"M8: F91 Cab, F92 Coupe, F93 GC. Coming in 2019-2020"

So the 6 gets renamed 8 basically.

Question is what does the new 6 look like? Is it in fact going to compete against the 911 and AMG GT?

[Germanauto]

I'm excited for the X3M. BMW no longer owns the "sporty" end of that segment like they used to when their only competition was the RX, GLK, and Q5. With the Macan, Velar, Stelvio, SQ5, etc. in the segment now it's vital BMW place driving dynamics as a high priority in the next X3 and offer trim levels (like an ///M) to compete with the souped up versions of those SUVs.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Yes it is likely.

I think it will go something like this.

M2=B58

I'd call that a long shot at best. There's really no incentive to change it up. The 2 Series and M2 LCI is this year and engines are expected to be unchanged (excluding the new CS). After that point, any updates to product will be minor and incremental.

M4 CS=S58

That's not happening either. The engine is debuting in the X3M. It isn't ready yet.