Mike/Terry, can you please join this discussion?

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 02-23-2011, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

flip side:

after working on customers car for the first time ever and getting the car out same day as requested -- customer return next day stating whatever we did caused an intermittent rattle in the car --- say ok, let take a look .. put customer into loaner.. for three days -- noise evident but no where close to the engine bay work we performed -- finally pulled dash assy and disassembled console -- finally pulled the driver front seat, and trapped on the seat rail assy is a pager -- which had a message waiting and buzzed every couple of minutes or so.

now the tech is not getting paid for this cause we when with the customers idea that it was something we did-- evidently it wasnt

so i call the customer and say the car is ready, he comes down and i show him the pager -- he said he had been looking for it ... it told him it was the noise he was hearing and there was nothing wrong with the work we did.

he apologizes and we part friends and the tech is short 11 hours of labor --

and this only one of many customer diagnosed issues that i have either worked with the customer on or the shop ate the charges and the tech lost their shorts ..

so do i disbelieve every customer that comes in thinking he/she knows whats wrong with the car ?

Oh I got too many stories like this.... BELIEVE ME.

I question how some people get through life.

Forcefed3 · 02-23-2011, 09:10 PM

I think I will keep my JB4, they are making pretty good progress. And I am not running extremely high boost levels, so I am not that worried. I am sure that if there are any real problems Terry will be able to work them out.

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

true..

take care -- tomorrow ill see if i can get some design specs for the current knock sensing system..

cheers!!

Please do, its clear you have experiece with this. Simply showing how this ecu works based on written documentation for the source would help everyone. If you can't/won't. Then we will simply have to wait for ATR which will provide the community with the most data to date.

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

I think I will keep my JB4, they are making pretty good progress. And I am not running extremely high boost levels, so I am not that worried. I am sure that if there are any real problems Terry will be able to work them out.

No one here is telling you to sell it, switch it, keep it. Once the info is presented, at the end of the day it is up to you to decide what you want to do.

BTW terry just confirmed what I told you, except he made it sound complicated when the reality is this:

NO PIGGYBACK can change load to a higer output then the ecu wants to see. Being that they cant do this, they are stuck with what the ecu wants the car to at STOCK load, despite the ACTUAL load (sometimes, depending on how much boost you want to run)being well beyond any written maps in the factory ecu.

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Oh I got too many stories like this.... BELIEVE ME.

I question how some people get through life.

Im guilty of this, back int he day, probably the 3rd car i started messing with was an 02 se-r. Ended up with i/h/e/cams/safc for power mods. I had this stupid rattle that sounded like it was coming from the drivers A pillar. Took it in, tech noticed the hole i drilled for the CAI was making the intake hit when the engine moved around. HE fixed it by simply splitting a hose and placing it around the cut I made. I felt like an idiot (well i was an idiot I was 18), but the guy fixed it anyway lol. That same guys also replaced my engine a couple thousand miles before I put cams into it because the engine sucked in a screw on the intake manifold butterfly vavles. (known recall/defect) He was also a master tech and sorta took me under wing. Check my cam install for me and said everythign looks spot on and even raised my idle to help with the stalling. People like this are RARE, but do exist.

Litos · 02-23-2011, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

You are too funny today..

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439505 (note the title "another")

yeah, this was expected......

"...running a modified 12 ohm board (duty cycle safety bypassed) with around 18.5-19psi on meth/pump and little taper..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPSlick

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379716 (somewhere in that thread he blows his engine)

"...Turbo Dynamic Stage 2 turbos...."

nice try, but those are isolates cases of 1) being a retard and 2) running bigger turbos.

show me a jb3/jb4 car with minimal boltons that has burned to the ground.....

and even if you find one or two, that's cool. that's one or two out of thousands of cars that have been running these tunes for the last 2 years....

STONEY_M5 · 02-23-2011, 09:40 PM

Lito's there are numerous other forums on the net, so for sake of argument someone hates e90 post for whatever reason u won't get his story here.... Get my drift.

JB4-335 · 02-23-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Thats the same 2-3 log you posted before, try to log for more then 4 seconds please.

AND???

Still waiting to see some of more of your logs clap.

Joshboody · 02-23-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Why would they use that as an argument if the JB4 does it also? Are you 100% positive on that?

their argument is that JB scales the load... this is how they control boost, based on factory control. The procede fakes the load, because its directly controling boost... that's why boost is very stable when you compare the 2. check out the logs.

Dmacc · 02-23-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Litos

yeah, this was expected......

"...running a modified 12 ohm board (duty cycle safety bypassed) with around 18.5-19psi on meth/pump and little taper..."

"...Turbo Dynamic Stage 2 turbos...."

nice try, but those are isolates cases of 1) being a retard and 2) running bigger turbos.

show me a jb3/jb4 car with minimal boltons that has burned to the ground.....

and even if you find one or two, that's cool. that's one or two out of thousands of cars that have been running these tunes for the last 2 years....

keep this car for as long as i keep mine, and stick with the jb tune. my tune running the same psi will keep my engine from failing in the long run, and yours will fail before mine. simply put

Dmacc · 02-23-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB4135

AND???

Still waiting to see some of more of your logs clap.

how hard is it for you to do a 3-4 log? you haven't proved him wrong yet because you don't know how to log properly.

Litos · 02-23-2011, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmacc

keep this car for as long as i keep mine, and stick with the jb tune. my tune running the same psi will keep my engine from failing in the long run, and yours will fail before mine. simply put

i guess you can speculate all you want, but we'll have to check eachother in 2 years.....

p.s.
mine is an 07 with 35k miles - i will guarantee that your car breaks before mine.

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB4135

AND???

Still waiting to see some of more of your logs clap.

You would figure that by now you would realize that I don't make bullshti up. How many logs would you like to sir? There are all going to show ZERO dips btw, thery are all going to show the same EXACT timing.

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshboody

their argument is that JB scales the load... this is how they control boost, based on factory control. The procede fakes the load, because its directly controling boost... that's why boost is very stable when you compare the 2. check out the logs.

The juice box doesnt scale the load the ecu wants to see. That is the biggest crap I have ever read. What it does is scales the boost the ecu runs to create its own boost level. The ecu still thinks it is running stock boost, with overshoots/undershoots just like a stock car.

Forcefed3 · 02-23-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

No one here is telling you to sell it, switch it, keep it. Once the info is presented, at the end of the day it is up to you to decide what you want to do.

BTW terry just confirmed what I told you, except he made it sound complicated when the reality is this:

NO PIGGYBACK can change load to a higer output then the ecu wants to see. Being that they cant do this, they are stuck with what the ecu wants the car to at STOCK load, despite the ACTUAL load (sometimes, depending on how much boost you want to run)being well beyond any written maps in the factory ecu.

Yeah, if I ever decide to go with upgraded turbos then I may consider switching. Its just not my first priority right now.

themyst · 02-23-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

The juice box doesnt scale the load the ecu wants to see. That is the biggest crap I have ever read. What it does is scales the boost the ecu runs to create its own boost level. The ecu still thinks it is running stock boost, with overshoots/undershoots just like a stock car.

the JB3 used a multiplier over stock boost to increase boost, it does something similar for fuel. the JB4 actually has an adaptive PID system, similar to how the Procede targets boost.

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 10:02 PM

Heres one I have saved in my photobucket. Im going to let you bash me about the timing drop, and then tell you why you are wrong lol, hopefully you will figure it out before I tell you that you wrong.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

the JB3 used a multiplier over stock boost to increase boost, it does something similar for fuel. the JB4 actually has an adaptive PID system, similar to how the Procede targets boost.

Actually terry just said they still scale boost.

Forcefed3 · 02-23-2011, 10:04 PM

^ Is it because it only drops when you shift?

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

^ Is it because it only drops when you shift?

No, there are two timing drops in the 3rd-4th gear log and both are cause by the same thing, neither have anything to do with shifting or knock.

Jake@MOTIV · 02-23-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clap135

Heres one I have saved in my photobucket. Im going to let you bash me about the timing drop, and then tell you why you are wrong lol, hopefully you will figure it out before I tell you that you wrong.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Can I play? Your rpm blips...you get wheel spin at the spot?

Clap135 · 02-23-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyLow335i

Can I play? Your rpm blips...you get wheel spin at the spot?

you don't count. lol

But yes, he ruined it before some newbie answered wrong. From roughly 4k in 3rd, I had the tracktion light blinking at me as traction control was half off. The part where timing drops, is when traction control took control over the car. At the shift, well right after the shift, the rpms go up then down, then up. Spun into 4th with hard shift.

Keep in mind this log was done on salty roads, so don't start assuming I break 3rd gear apart with a stage 1 ots map lol.

02-23-2011, 09:10 PM	#1190
Forcefed3 Banned 132 Rep 4,732 Posts Drives: 2008 335i Join Date: May 2010 Location: South iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 335i [1.00]	I think I will keep my JB4, they are making pretty good progress. And I am not running extremely high boost levels, so I am not that worried. I am sure that if there are any real problems Terry will be able to work them out.
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02-23-2011, 09:40 PM	#1195
STONEY_M5 MAAD HEAD 65 Rep 1,122 Posts Drives: 2010 X5M 2013 M5 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NYC iTrader: (4) Garage List 13 F10 M5 [0.00] 2010 X5M [0.00] 07 335i [9.26]	Lito's there are numerous other forums on the net, so for sake of argument someone hates e90 post for whatever reason u won't get his story here.... Get my drift. __________________ F10 M5 e70 X5M Sold E90 335i
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02-23-2011, 10:02 PM	#1205
Clap135 Brigadier General 106 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	Heres one I have saved in my photobucket. Im going to let you bash me about the timing drop, and then tell you why you are wrong lol, hopefully you will figure it out before I tell you that you wrong. [IMG][/IMG]
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02-23-2011, 10:04 PM	#1207
Forcefed3 Banned 132 Rep 4,732 Posts Drives: 2008 335i Join Date: May 2010 Location: South iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 335i [1.00]	^ Is it because it only drops when you shift?
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