Thinking about an intake dyno comparison test

SDemetris · 01-22-2014, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Tomorrow at 3pm. I'm going to swapping these as fast as possible and see what we come up with.

Ladies and gentlemen, shit is about to get real... Never thought i would see this happen. way to get it done

JTDahl · 01-23-2014, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Tomorrow at 3pm. I'm going to swapping these as fast as possible and see what we come up with.

Yes! Finally some real progress towards actual knowledge.

Love The Drive · 01-23-2014, 12:49 AM

For exhaust and engine software modifications, as far as I know, it takes the engine computer 100+ miles to adapt to changes.
Does this not apply to the air intake as well?
Does the MAF sensor act instantaneously?
If not, then the back to back swaps of the intakes would yield flawed data. Ignoring the fact, which has already been mentioned, that back to back dyno's without change can vary by themselves.

Apologies for my lack of knowledge ahead of time

, but I don't think anyone else has mentioned the fact that the engine is not being given enough time to adapt to each intake for proper results.

Taskmaster · 01-23-2014, 07:53 AM

I've only known of DME adaptations to effect partial throttle, not WOT values/power.

Johnny D · 01-23-2014, 09:14 AM

For an airbox the car should be adapted by the third full throttle pull on a dyno. Maf. correction is instantaneous.

I'm going to call my guesses.
Open airbox shows highest torque and hp followed by my aFe box. Stock will either be right on with the aFe or barely below.

Mike. · 01-23-2014, 09:41 AM

How I feel:

oh yea I hope the injen looks (somewhat) good on the dyno so I can justify the purchase to myself!

SDemetris · 01-23-2014, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love The Drive

For exhaust and engine software modifications, as far as I know, it takes the engine computer 100+ miles to adapt to changes.
Does this not apply to the air intake as well?
Does the MAF sensor act instantaneously?
If not, then the back to back swaps of the intakes would yield flawed data. Ignoring the fact, which has already been mentioned, that back to back dyno's without change can vary by themselves.

Apologies for my lack of knowledge ahead of time

, but I don't think anyone else has mentioned the fact that the engine is not being given enough time to adapt to each intake for proper results.

If he were to worry about this he could clear adaptations between runs via a obd2 tuner or just disconnecting the battery for a bit

andrey_gta · 01-23-2014, 10:20 AM

Looking fwd to the results. The intake delta is pretty instant to detect. Maybe just give the car a rev or two to adapt, other than that the dme is not an issue. I felt a positive change right after I installed mine.

One thing to watch out for The car shows gains on a dyno for each run for the first 3 runs. So the intakes should at least get 2 runs each to where the 2nd one is more true

Taskmaster · 01-23-2014, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Looking fwd to the results. The intake delta is pretty instant to detect. Maybe just give the car a rev or two to adapt, other than that the dme is not an issue. I felt a positive change right after I installed mine.

One thing to watch out for The car shows gains on a dyno for each run for the first 3 runs. So the intakes should at least get 2 runs each to where the 2nd one is more true

At least 3 runs per intake - I don't think more will be necessary as the car warms up to operating temperature.

Emozoo, I laughed harder than I should have at that.

I think the most interesting part here will be the effects of the tune vs intake on the car. I've seen dynos that show intake gains are actually all DME manipulation and don't actually add power over the stock intakes. I guess we'll see.

Mike. · 01-23-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

I think the most interesting part here will be the effects of the tune vs intake on the car. I've seen dynos that show intake gains are actually all DME manipulation and don't actually add power over the stock intakes. I guess we'll see.

^interesting. I hope you find an intake that adds about 10hp...I guess that would be alright..

AlpineSwift · 01-23-2014, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emozoo

^interesting. I hope you find an intake that adds about 10hp...I guess that would be alright..

That would be amazing period.

Mike. · 01-23-2014, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineSwift

That would be amazing period.

it may be wishful thinking but it would be pretty cool. so headers(14 hp), exhaust(~5 hp), and intake (~10hp)-->30 hp then a tune and a 3 stage mani--> what like (~25-30)hp?
+240 hp stock
+54-59hp of upgrades
____________
there's your 300 hp and assuming @ ~15% loss from drive train loss

255 whp

*purely speculation from a hopeful enthusiast

we just have to figure out how to get another 30 on top of that haha

right on par with the GS 350-> rated at 3.5LV6 @ 303 hp

Taskmaster · 01-23-2014, 12:06 PM

Can you rest adaptations without a cable? I'll give it a shot.

AlpineSwift · 01-23-2014, 12:30 PM

OFT has the function to do so under diagnostics section.

Mike. · 01-23-2014, 02:21 PM

well axiom is in the matrix right now...lets hope the results are encouraging!

Dylanize · 01-23-2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny D

I'm going to call my guesses.
Open airbox shows highest torque and hp followed by my aFe box. Stock will either be right on with the aFe or barely below.

I agree with your guess, but I can almost guarantee you will never see the same results in every-day driving.

Selling my Open element aFe intake and replacing it with my stock box with a cone filter inside was the best thing i've done power-wise.

That afe ruined my car, maybe because of the Maf sensor issue, but either way I think a sealed box is the way to go unless you live somewhere it is always cold.

SDemetris · 01-23-2014, 05:12 PM

The suspense...

andrey_gta · 01-23-2014, 05:57 PM

My guess is that the torque numbers will vary between the intakes. Hp not as much as people would like to see

Taskmaster · 01-23-2014, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

My guess is that the torque numbers will vary between the intakes. Hp not as much as people would like to see

Well, yes and no. All the intakes made more power than stock, some more than others.

Taskmaster · 01-23-2014, 06:34 PM

Between the tune and best intake, there was about a 10lb-ft gain in torque and 9-10whp gain in power over my stock runs.

I'll give a small review with some pictures when I home.

SDemetris · 01-23-2014, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Between the tune and best intake, there was about a 10lb-ft gain in torque and 9-10whp gain in power over my stock runs.

I'll give a small review with some pictures when I home.

damn you. keeping us hanging haha

andrey_gta · 01-23-2014, 06:59 PM

A productive experiment

01-23-2014, 12:49 AM	#113
Love The Drive Second Lieutenant 36 Rep 205 Posts Drives: E90 MT N51 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The Canyons iTrader: (0)	For exhaust and engine software modifications, as far as I know, it takes the engine computer 100+ miles to adapt to changes. Does this not apply to the air intake as well? Does the MAF sensor act instantaneously? If not, then the back to back swaps of the intakes would yield flawed data. Ignoring the fact, which has already been mentioned, that back to back dyno's without change can vary by themselves. Apologies for my lack of knowledge ahead of time , but I don't think anyone else has mentioned the fact that the engine is not being given enough time to adapt to each intake for proper results. __________________ 2011 E90 328i \| CDV Delete \| BMW PE \| Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit \| 17x9 ET30 APEX ARC-8's \| 255/40
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01-23-2014, 07:53 AM	#114
Taskmaster Banned 2472 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	I've only known of DME adaptations to effect partial throttle, not WOT values/power.
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01-23-2014, 09:14 AM	#115
Johnny D Major 64 Rep 1,087 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 325i Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Hot Springs, AR iTrader: (4) Garage List 2006 BMW 325i [9.16]	For an airbox the car should be adapted by the third full throttle pull on a dyno. Maf. correction is instantaneous. I'm going to call my guesses. Open airbox shows highest torque and hp followed by my aFe box. Stock will either be right on with the aFe or barely below.
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01-23-2014, 09:41 AM	#116
Mike. Mike: Everyone's Pal 2045 Rep 2,973 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Eastern Long Island iTrader: (5) Garage List 2013 BMW 335xi [10.00]	How I feel: oh yea I hope the injen looks (somewhat) good on the dyno so I can justify the purchase to myself! __________________ [CENTER] 2021 6.2L Trail Boss, 6" BDS lift, Chevy Performance intake, 35" Nitto Grapplers, 20" Fuel wheels
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01-23-2014, 10:20 AM	#118
andrey_gta Brigadier General 316 Rep 4,040 Posts Drives: 130i coupé ;) Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bimmerpost iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW 128i [10.00]	Looking fwd to the results. The intake delta is pretty instant to detect. Maybe just give the car a rev or two to adapt, other than that the dme is not an issue. I felt a positive change right after I installed mine. One thing to watch out for The car shows gains on a dyno for each run for the first 3 runs. So the intakes should at least get 2 runs each to where the 2nd one is more true __________________ 128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff "The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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01-23-2014, 12:06 PM	#123
Taskmaster Banned 2472 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	Can you rest adaptations without a cable? I'll give it a shot.
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01-23-2014, 12:30 PM	#124
AlpineSwift Colonel 78 Rep 2,114 Posts Drives: 2008 335Xi Coupé Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Castle Rock, CO iTrader: (3)	OFT has the function to do so under diagnostics section. __________________ E92 '08 335Xi 6AT - Cobb AP3 Tuned by MAC Autosport, Original Prototype Xi DOCRace 6266 Single Turbo Swap, VRSF CP w/Synapse BOV, VRSF 7" FMIC, BMS Cowl, H&R Coilovers, Renn Motorsport RS-51's, Stoptech Stage 2 Slotted, xHP Stage 3, Earl's Racing Oil Cooler, Turner Boost Gauge, M3 Lip Spoiler. Standing Mile Record Holder for Xi over a mile high: 168.2MPH @ 5512'; The Colorado Mile hosted by The US Mile.
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01-23-2014, 02:21 PM	#125
Mike. Mike: Everyone's Pal 2045 Rep 2,973 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Eastern Long Island iTrader: (5) Garage List 2013 BMW 335xi [10.00]	well axiom is in the matrix right now...lets hope the results are encouraging! __________________ [CENTER] 2021 6.2L Trail Boss, 6" BDS lift, Chevy Performance intake, 35" Nitto Grapplers, 20" Fuel wheels
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01-23-2014, 05:12 PM	#127
SDemetris FSAE Dude 61 Rep 759 Posts Drives: E90 328xi Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Pittsburgh, PA iTrader: (0)	The suspense... __________________ 2007 TiAg 328xi: AA Tune, AFE intake, Full exhaust, 335xi Brakes, H&R RSB, UUC FSB, H&R Sports, Billy Sports...BBS SR 17x8 1985 Gazelle Beige 325e: Poly everything, e24 3.25 LSD, 225 lb weight reduction, Corbeau FX1, Shifter machined by me, roll bar, harness, all the other goodies. My "Racecar"...15x7 BBS RA
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01-23-2014, 05:57 PM	#128
andrey_gta Brigadier General 316 Rep 4,040 Posts Drives: 130i coupé ;) Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bimmerpost iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW 128i [10.00]	My guess is that the torque numbers will vary between the intakes. Hp not as much as people would like to see __________________ 128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff "The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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01-23-2014, 06:34 PM	#130
Taskmaster Banned 2472 Rep 9,004 Posts Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Florida iTrader: (6)	Between the tune and best intake, there was about a 10lb-ft gain in torque and 9-10whp gain in power over my stock runs. I'll give a small review with some pictures when I home.
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01-23-2014, 06:59 PM	#132
andrey_gta Brigadier General 316 Rep 4,040 Posts Drives: 130i coupé ;) Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Bimmerpost iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 BMW 128i [10.00]	A productive experiment __________________ 128i Sport 6MT converted to Euro 130i spec, 3.73 diff, tuned by evolve ~220 whp 207 wtq(ft-lb) SAE In-progress: //M front arm, M3 rack, e36M lip Wishlist: Coils, n55 mnts, headers, LSD, e60 finn diff "The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving." - R&T 2013 135is
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