[charlie fairmont]

I am in absolute awe of you folks. Phenomenal ingenuity and sleuthing skills. I couldn't possibly contribute but many thanks nonetheless.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I was wondering since it's in fluid coupling mode in 2nd. So there's some large power losses/heat generation due to churning and pressure while in that gear. I probably need to figure out how to log that...

From here (http://www.europeantransmissions.com.../6hp_trans.pdf) it appears there's two temp sensors: Trans Fluid Temp (TFT) and Substrate Temp Sensor (basically the temp of the TCM itself). There appears to be multiple changes to shift strategies and protection based on these two sensors.

Yeah there are definitely modifiers in the maps based on fluid temp, there are a few in the shots I posted but they arent labeled that way. There are boost pressure maps, boost time maps, and pressure offset maps based on the transmission fluid temp feedback, but I dont see any torque management from fluid temp.

edit: To add to this, there may be an abuse mode triggered by fluid temp. Nothing like that is shown in the file at this point but that of course doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

[mob17]

Don't understand any of this but patiently waiting for a result!

Are we able to get the trans temp parameter monitoring via OBD port? Like through BMWhat or similar?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by mob17

Don't understand any of this but patiently waiting for a result!

Are we able to get the trans temp parameter monitoring via OBD port? Like through BMWhat or similar?

Yes, the transmission fluid temperature can be monitored via the OBDII port. The parameter is Tra_tOil and can be logged in Testo.

[Mik325tds]

Sorry I have been offline for a while. It's funny how work gets in the way of the important things of life...
Anyway, I've been working on the descriptions on how to update the calibration of the EGS with WinKFP. It's quite involved. You'll need to learn how to work with NCSexpert and Ediabas first.
Let me know if you find anything that should be edited.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

So I got the BETA and...it didnt get any better. On the plus side, each of the available maps has a TCM location number shown in the window. If we are lucky, they are the same for our TCM. I posted some of those locations below to check on and a couple can also be seen in the screen shots at the bottom left corner.

Map------------------------Location
Shift Pattern 0 --------------- 41600
Shift Pattern 1 --------------- 41602
Shift Pattern 51 -------------- 41702
Second Ramp Shift Time 1->2 - 20508
Maximum Shift Time 1->2 ----- 41830
Nominal Slip Time 1->2 -------- 41566
Line Pressure Gear 1 -> ------- 41812

Hooper, this is awesome! Thanks for getting this. Do you know if the tool calculates the checksums at the end of each line and end of file as well? That way we could start playing around with some things and testing/logging the effects.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Yozh

Here is a stupid question. If Mik is successful in flashing various files to the TCU, why can't we flash an Alpina D3 transmission tune to ours. Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Not stupid at all. I think this has been attempted already by stevers134. The transmission did not accept that program. As far as I know, we'll have to stay within the boundaries of the HWnumber 7591972.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

Hooper, this is awesome! Thanks for getting this. Do you know if the tool calculates the checksums at the end of each line and end of file as well? That way we could start playing around with some things and testing/logging the effects.

Well I know that it will give you checksum errors if it gets screwed up, so the answer must be yes, but none of the information is displayed to the user unless there is an error. Accessing and viewing that information is over my head. I sent you a few files to check out though so hopefully that is helpful.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

So I got the BETA and...it didnt get any better. On the plus side, each of the available maps has a TCM location number shown in the window. If we are lucky, they are the same for our TCM. I posted some of those locations below to check on and a couple can also be seen in the screen shots at the bottom left corner.

Map------------------------Location
Shift Pattern 0 --------------- 41600
Shift Pattern 1 --------------- 41602
Shift Pattern 51 -------------- 41702
Second Ramp Shift Time 1->2 - 20508
Maximum Shift Time 1->2 ----- 41830
Nominal Slip Time 1->2 -------- 41566
Line Pressure Gear 1 -> ------- 41812









This last one is my favorite. It shows what I had suspected for a long time but never really knew for sure if it was the case. The transmission can limit torque in every gear, and undoubtedly does so in the first 2 or 3 in stock form.

Everytime I review this post, I see something interesting.
First, we now have insight into the map axis and expected scaling.
Second, we know the dimensions of these maps (and axis). There are many different size maps. This really helps narrow it down.
Third, the addresses called out in the HP tuners software are not matching up with the cal files, so hopefully it is just an offset. I'll need to carve out some time to do that search. But, would anyone be surprised if the Ford TCM does not match the BMW TCM?
Fourth, the shift times really are as slow as they seem.
Fifth, This transmission is stronger than we have been led to believe, with a torque threshold of 590 ft-lbs.


Thanks Hoooper.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

So I got the BETA and...it didnt get any better. On the plus side, each of the available maps has a TCM location number shown in the window. If we are lucky, they are the same for our TCM. I posted some of those locations below to check on and a couple can also be seen in the screen shots at the bottom left corner.

Map------------------------Location
Shift Pattern 0 --------------- 41600
Shift Pattern 1 --------------- 41602
Shift Pattern 51 -------------- 41702
Second Ramp Shift Time 1->2 - 20508
Maximum Shift Time 1->2 ----- 41830
Nominal Slip Time 1->2 -------- 41566
Line Pressure Gear 1 -> ------- 41812

Ok. Let's start with the shift patterns. We should be able to locate them since there are 52 of them. 52!!!!
And why would they use output shaft speed (OSS) instead of ISS? It would be so much easier to understand.

The locations in HP tuner can't possibly be addresses: One map can't fit in 2 bytes.
...and why does WinOLS start with 0x50000 while the text files clearly start at 0x100000? Haven't found how to configure that yet - DWR?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

Ok. Let's start with the shift patterns. We should be able to locate them since there are 52 of them. 52!!!!
The locations in HP tuner can't possibly be addresses: One map can't fit in 2 bytes.
...and why does WinOLS start with 0x50000 while the text files clearly start at 0x100000? Haven't found how to configure that yet - DWR?

I believe the locations in HP tuner are the sequence locations for the various data blocks. For example, the shift pattern maps seem to have an up and down shift map, like so:
Pat Up Down
0 14600 14601
1 14602 14603
2 14604 14605
3 14606 14607
4 14608 14609
5 14610 14611
6 14612 14613
7 14614 14615

I'm finding WinOLS to be marginally helpful. For instance, the shift pattern maps. 52, ha, WinOLS can't find 1 map with those dimensions! My outlook remains that we will need to take information like Hooper just gave us to determine what the maps would look like either 2D or 3D in the cal file, in combination with the expected count of particular kinds of maps, to find the addresses. Because, some of the axis data will remain consistent, this is a method that WinOLS can facilitate because it will do byte sequence searches.

I'm not that concerned about address offsets. I've been through these inconsistencies in past investigations. Offsets were always changing with the software. Match the pattern you are looking for and document the address when you find it. Sometimes it was the exact same map or parameter, no difference, just in a slight different location ... Always open to better methods though.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by DWR

I'm finding WinOLS to be marginally helpful. For instance, the shift pattern maps. 52, ha, WinOLS can't find 1 map with those dimensions! My outlook remains that we will need to take information like Hooper just gave us to determine what the maps would look like either 2D or 3D in the cal file, in combination with the expected count of particular kinds of maps, to find the addresses. Because, some of the axis data will remain consistent, this is a method that WinOLS can facilitate because it will do byte sequence searches.

I'm not that concerned about address offsets. I've been through these inconsistencies in past investigations. Offsets were always changing with the software. Match the pattern you are looking for and document the address when you find it. Sometimes it was the exact same map or parameter, no difference, just in a slight different location ... Always open to better methods though.

Agreed about the usefulness of WinOLS and address offsets. Maybe there's a better tool out there for transmission map identification? It looks like WinOLS is more trimmed to find engine tuning maps.

[Mik325tds]

Here's some data of the 7609647 calibration. The 30% Throttle input pull doesn't reveal anything new. It agrees with the butt dyno: Not mutch different than original (7606273).

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

Sorry I have been offline for a while. It's funny how work gets in the way of the important things of life...
Anyway, I've been working on the descriptions on how to update the calibration of the EGS with WinKFP. It's quite involved. You'll need to learn how to work with NCSexpert and Ediabas first.
Let me know if you find anything that should be edited.

Great stuff Mik, thanks.

Sounds like we can assume we will get errors with any flash. I know that will elevate my heart rate the first time I do this.

[Mik325tds]

Here's something interesting though. I noticed in the 7610591 calibration that the tranny shifts very early from 5>6 but it also downshifts at slightly higher throttle inputs (30%) when in 6th gear and cruising around 50mph. So I started logging that behavior and now compared it to the 7609647 calibration: Data agrees with butt dyno: Very different shift pattern!
It's takes a little bit to see it, but the 7610591 cal I was able to shift between 6 to 5 to 6 to 5 very easily with throttle input between 15% and 30%. While the 7609647 took about 40% Throttle to downshift on the first try and on the second try it didn't even downshift at throttle input 50%. Both logs where done at very comparable OSS speeds of 1800rpm.
Looking at the shift pattern 46100, it would agree much more with the 7610591 cal than with the 7609647.
This is a huge step - once we can identify the 52 shift pattern maps, we now may be able to find which one it uses for D XE (extreme economy).

[mob17]

Wait, the tranny can handle 590 ft-lbs?

Kudos to the members doing this, i don't understand one bit. Are the US and Euro trannys software identical?

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by DWR

Great stuff Mik, thanks.

Sounds like we can assume we will get errors with any flash. I know that will elevate my heart rate the first time I do this.

Haha, that's funny. I was going to put that in the manual: The first time you do this, expect a heart rate of 140+ while sitting completely still in the driver seat. It's awesome!

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by mob17

Wait, the tranny can handle 590 ft-lbs?

Kudos to the members doing this, i don't understand one bit. Are the US and Euro trannys software identical?

Not quite sure of the 590 ft-lbs, it might be something they just wrote in there to push the torque limiter.

Thanks for the kudos - is there anything particular you don't understand? Just ask - there are no dumb questions. I'll try to explain.

It would be interesting to find out if the Euro trannies use the same SW: Would you be able to read the aif of your tranny with Ediabas? The .prg is GS19D.prg and the job is aif_lesen.

[Hoooper]

Well 590 ft lbs might be just kind of a placeholder. It looks like it is meant to represent the gearbox torque maximum, not engine torque maximum. I suspect the maximum gearbox torque for the 6hp26/28 is higher than 590, it should really be well over 700 I would figure, maybe even 800 or 900 but that's just a WAG based on rated input torque and gearing compared to other input torque ratings and gearing in transmissions I'm more familiar with. Maximum engine torque like what is shown on zf's website is not the same value as maximum gearbox torque.

[DWR]

In this case, the maximum engine torque is 472 ft-lbs @ 5,500 rpm. I found it in one of the engine tuning maps. Gearbox itself has to have a higher rating for torque because the torque converter acts like a torque multiplier, when it is unlocked.

The TCM gives torque management commands to the DDE. The torque limits, reductions, thresholds, etc. are all in terms of engine torque, according to HP Tuners online help.

[Mik325tds]

DWR and I were wondering if we could find the maps better if we compare it to a significantly different calibration - like the E70. Interestingly, I found one cal that is compatible with the E90 HW 7591972:
7507225,0000000,7591972,A,7507226DA,0FFFFFFFFFD,00 0,1 L
So I tried flashing that today.
It didn't like it - at all.
All sorts of DTCs even after clearing them stayed in the EGS and it gave me the transmission symbol in the cluster, saying that driving might not be possible and a restart may fix the problem. Otherwise, I should not forget to pull the emergency release before towing the vehicle to the next dealer.
Engine did start but it wouldn't let me shift out of Park. The reason is obvious: It was missing the electronic gear shifter.
I found it very surprising though that this was part of a Cal and not part of a new program or even HW revision of the EGS. Makes me think of a new mod...

Luckily, flashing back to an older cal was no problem.

[TDIwyse]

How was your heart rate and blood pressure during this? Yikes...