[lndshrk]

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

Cookie n' cream FTW!

Wait wait - come pick me up

[Calgary Agent]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Alright, back on topic. Ready.....fight.

+1

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by lndshrk

Wait wait - come pick me up

For sure Jim.

[Ryan@Motorwerks]

Originally Posted by Robertbog

Great now I got to go up there and take pictures, do they even let you in dealerships? either its DSC or DIS whatever, ive thrown codes that would send BMW up a creek, all on their machines, and my warranty doesnt have a single mark. So with 1984 how is that possible?

Wow schneider you are so wise with your posts, please keep them coming

You should make a flash or something, or maybe even make your own brand of car...

[Neema]

Originally Posted by lndshrk

If it were only that simple.

Your car is connected to a diagnostic head - the head connects (usually
wirelessly) to the local diagnostic or programming system - which is then
networked into BMW AG's network.

1984 is now.

Jim

So what your saying is that the decision to NOT update the car to newer software programs, has to be at the service advisor's level, because he is the one that can note a special request on a service bill.

[lndshrk]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

So what your saying is that the decision to NOT update the car to newer software programs, has to be at the service advisor's level, because he is the one that can note a special request on a service bill.

No, what I'm saying is that I don't think ANYONE can make this decision.

Example: my I-Drive was acting up and it needed to be reprogrammed.

The dealership stuck the car on the SSS and updated it.

Took a full day (b/c it failed 3 times ) and it also updated every
single module in the vehicle - including the DME MSD80.

In the "old" days you could just update the DME/etc. Apparently you can't
do it anymore. Seems like a GIANT leap backwards to me.

Jim

[myfirstbmw335i]

+1

[Jeff@Eurobahn.us]

Jim is 100% correct!

The computer system known soon in dealerships as Isis or Isux depending on your point of view will compare your vehicles systems to what the main computer in Germany says your car should have. And it will automatically do the updates with out any input from the techs.

We played with this system when we did our tests on the Turbo Tuner and I am sorry but Jim's analogy of 1984 was not that far off the mark. We got lucky that our guys had literally just come back from Isis training that afternoon so they knew all the tricks to see everything it was testing and what it was doing. But it was scary to watch.

Jeff
Eurobahn

[RiXst3r]

I posted this in the "other forum" but wanted to get some input from here...

what I have been told to worry about is what BMW calls FASTA Data
this is the data transmitted to BMW technical assistance from the diagnostic tester when they are troubleshooting a trouble code, or problem.

They will perform a "Short Test" and transmit the FASTA data prior to programming or troubleshooting. In many instances, the "uncontaminated" FASTA information may be helpful in determining the root cause, which in this case, would be that a piggyback had been installed, tripping the "tuner protection" codes.... even if they have been cleared, because this contains the RAW data that tripped the codes, not the codes themselves. Or even contains data that was not seen by the dealer computers at all!

Scary stuff...

[stressdoc]

Kind of depends what you might have to worry about.

Think this through from the perspective of BMW public relations and the big picture should get a little clearer. Last thing in the world they want is for owners to freak out that somehow they are being spied upon. OTOH, they also don't appreciate getting fleeced by reckless modders. Somewhere in there there's a happy medium.

[lauer87]

Just thought i would share this:
I don't think BMW is going to be sending out any notices saying your warrenty has been voided even if they detect tuning, instead they would probably rather make note of the cars VIN and that they suspect tuning. They can't just flat out void your whole warrenty to begin with, for example a brake sensor fails that needs replaced would still be covered. In the event that something would go wrong with ANYTHING engine/turbo/fuel system/drivetrain related, and your car had been red flagged, they would be looking at your car very closely and then probably deny warrenty repairs to the affected parts only.

Also, if your just going in for a oil change or something minor, you could probably tell your SA that you are in a hurry and need the car done quickly because the flashes normally take a few hours. This might not be as suspicious to them as flat as asking them not to flash your car.

[stressdoc]

Bling! Nothing goes wrong, no problem, nothing is said.

Look on the positive side here too, in that BMW is developing the potential for a super research and diagnostic tool for taking care of our cars. It's part of the grand plan to centralize -- it is much too difficult to instruct all techs how to do everything, and too slow to put together feedback that trickles in regarding failures. This is like the dream system for the CDC (Center for Disease Control): patients get plugged into a diagnostic machine that monitors everything going on in your body. Early cancer detection, early influenza response, medications and treatments individually tailored. It's all about informatics. But the bloody ethics are a bit daunting.

[satinghostrider]

Those sick sons of bitches...

[sirploppy]

Originally Posted by Robertbog

Great now I got to go up there and take pictures, do they even let you in dealerships? either its DSC or DIS whatever, ive thrown codes that would send BMW up a creek, all on their machines, and my warranty doesnt have a single mark. So with 1984 how is that possible?

"220, 221.... Whatever it takes" (80's movie reference for the youngins...)

Reading your posts gives me that uncomfortable feeling like watching a really bad actor in a movie. The person thinks the audience buys it, and true talent is there, but the reality of poor skills and inexperience is what they come away with after the performance.

IMHO

And I want some Ice Cream...

This answers all your questions about the 1984 scenario:

Originally Posted by Jeff@Eurobahn.us

Jim is 100% correct!

The computer system known soon in dealerships as Isis or Isux depending on your point of view will compare your vehicles systems to what the main computer in Germany says your car should have. And it will automatically do the updates with out any input from the techs.

We played with this system when we did our tests on the Turbo Tuner and I am sorry but Jim's analogy of 1984 was not that far off the mark. We got lucky that our guys had literally just come back from Isis training that afternoon so they knew all the tricks to see everything it was testing and what it was doing. But it was scary to watch.

Jeff
Eurobahn

[sirploppy]

Originally Posted by 335e90

You should make a flash or something, or maybe even make your own brand of car...

[Neema]

Originally Posted by lndshrk

No, what I'm saying is that I don't think ANYONE can make this decision.

Example: my I-Drive was acting up and it needed to be reprogrammed.

The dealership stuck the car on the SSS and updated it.

Took a full day (b/c it failed 3 times ) and it also updated every
single module in the vehicle - including the DME MSD80.

In the "old" days you could just update the DME/etc. Apparently you can't
do it anymore. Seems like a GIANT leap backwards to me.

Jim

Looks like I have to sneak in and disconnect my battery real quick while they're working on the car!

[Neema]

irvine BMW did have a nice looking Z4 M coupe in their showroom. . . . . something I could keep stock.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by lndshrk

No, what I'm saying is that I don't think ANYONE can make this decision.

Example: my I-Drive was acting up and it needed to be reprogrammed.

The dealership stuck the car on the SSS and updated it.

Took a full day (b/c it failed 3 times ) and it also updated every
single module in the vehicle - including the DME MSD80.

In the "old" days you could just update the DME/etc. Apparently you can't
do it anymore. Seems like a GIANT leap backwards to me.

Jim

Originally Posted by Jeff@Eurobahn.us

Jim is 100% correct!

The computer system known soon in dealerships as Isis or Isux depending on your point of view will compare your vehicles systems to what the main computer in Germany says your car should have. And it will automatically do the updates with out any input from the techs.

We played with this system when we did our tests on the Turbo Tuner and I am sorry but Jim's analogy of 1984 was not that far off the mark. We got lucky that our guys had literally just come back from Isis training that afternoon so they knew all the tricks to see everything it was testing and what it was doing. But it was scary to watch.

Jeff
Eurobahn

Basically, they have one system that is in charge of doing any software related updates, and now, it just compares all your car's progman and DME info to it's latest versions (all of this done wireless). And just like magic, changes everything in the car to match what it has. . . as in DME V81 and prog. 29.2.

I'll admit, this is some pretty awesome stuff for those who keep their cars stock. It's a double edged sword. It can help you, but it can also f**k you. It's what's called "space age shit, yo."

[x986]

Up until just now it was like pulling teeth to get BMW to install the new Progman, now they are doing it as you drive by on your way to Home Depot? That seems a bit much.

[Driver72]

So when did this new Program 29.2 get released to dealers?

Do they do these updates by connecting up to the OBDII port under your dash by the driver's side door?

FWIW, I had to have the taillight bulb housing technical service bulletin done the other day as I got the warning light on my dash.
They found it was the passenger side light bulb housing.
They sadly did not have the driver's side new housing in but did the faulty one, so they changed only the passenger side one.

Before I took my car in, I anomonsly (sp) called and asked a SA if I bring my car in for a little service issue not related to the ECU or so forth (like a squeaking brake pad) would they flash my car with the v28 (the most up to date one I knew of at the time)??
I said I did not want it because I heard from some it "softens" up the throttle response even more and others felt the car felt "slower" afterward, therefore I did not want it.

That SA told me they would not flash the new program in unless it was necessary. He told me it was not allowed to mess with the ECU if nothing is wrong on the car. He said, however, if you bring your car in for something that's failed and the only way to fix it is with a program update they HAVE to do it. Otherwise, he states, they will not "fix" what's "not broken" and are not allowed too.

[Driver72]

BTW, Shiv this is a great post, but don't you think you give away too much in these detailed posts.
It lets BMW (and your competition) know what measures you are taking to get around their programs, and what they need to then do to either copy that or what they need to do to counter your counter measures!
As BMW AG is concerned (meaning): they will know what YOU know about their program updates as well and therefore can make further changes that you WON'T know about!

I would just do what you do and get around them, but not let ANYONE know what you did or what you know to do it.
Maybe I'm thinking obtusely here, but I'd think the less BMW AG knows what you know the better for you (and therefore your customers!

[Neema]

Originally Posted by Driver72

That SA told me they would not flash the new program in unless it was necessary. He told me it was not allowed to mess with the ECU if nothing is wrong on the car. He said, however, if you bring your car in for something that's failed and the only way to fix it is with a program update they HAVE to do it. Otherwise, he states, they will not "fix" what's "not broken" and are not allowed too.

This is correct and is something that REALLY needs to be conveyed to the entire 335 community. I confirmed this with an SA today as well, so people need to stop thinking that they will do these updates whenever you bring your car in. Matter of fact, I've been told that they are NOT allowed to do any type of upgrades unless it is related to the service and that the techs will not be payed for doing upgrades unless it was noted that it was needed.