[R N M]

Originally Posted by bkfastwagon

I don't think IS 500 is meant to compete against M3. They will need IS F to do that (probably V8 TT). Looking at its spec, it's more of a 340i/audi S4 competitor. A nice daily driver with V8 rumble.

Correct!

Lexus realized they can’t go head to toe with M3 because they will lose every measurable contest.

So they made this Fsport + variant that should be performance and price competitive with M340i. It will also appeal to current ISF and E9x owners that only want NA V8s in small sedan.

I think it was great idea and should sell well.

My big gripe is them not using the new 10speed auto and not offering sportier seats compared to base IS.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by R N M

Correct!

Lexus realized they can’t go head to toe with M3 because they will lose every measurable contest.

So they made this Fsport + variant that should be performance and price competitive with M340i. It will also appeal to current ISF and E9x owners that only want NA V8s in small sedan.

I think it was great idea and should sell well.

My big gripe is them not using the new 10speed auto and not offering sportier seats compared to base IS.

i agree it kind of feels like a cop out. "well our RCF can't compete with the M cars, so lets make it a 4 door and have it compete with the m-sport lineup"

The stock M340i is quite a bit faster than the RCF straight line, a bit faster on track too. Add in a tune (which you can't really do on an NA lexus) and the gap grows alot more in favor of the BMW.

so it come back around to the question: is the V8 sound, throttle response, and 'feel' of the car enough to make up for the performance deficit?

personally i hope it is. but they have their work cutout for them. if they can make the car feel like an E39 M5 in terms of the feel they might have a hit.

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i agree it kind of feels like a cop out. "well our RCF can't compete with the M cars, so lets make it a 4 door and have it compete with the m-sport lineup"

The stock M340i is quite a bit faster than the RCF straight line, a bit faster on track too. Add in a tune (which you can't really do on an NA lexus) and the gap grows alot more in favor of the BMW.

so it come back around to the question: is the V8 sound, throttle response, and 'feel' of the car enough to make up for the performance deficit?

personally i hope it is. but they have their work cutout for them. if they can make the car feel like an E39 M5 in terms of the feel they might have a hit.

The e39 m5 is an interesting comparison because for being 23ish years newer and +75hp, the IS500 doesn't seem particularly better (faster) on paper than the e39 M5.

[dscabra]

All the performance discussion aside, what about the simple case of wanting a reliable daily driver sedan with a V8 that won't drain the bank account when dealer service is required and DIY maintenance is dirt cheap and simple to do? At some point, this is an appealing product for a lot of people that also have a high-performance car in the stable.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

The e39 m5 is an interesting comparison because for being 23ish years newer and +75hp, the IS500 doesn't seem particularly better (faster) on paper than the e39 M5.

yeah on paper they are similar. nearly 4000 pounds with a 5 liter v8. I looked up e39 stats and they trap about 109-112 in the 1/4 mile. About the same as a current RCF which motortrend had at 112mph. So i doubt the is 500 will be a significant improvement on that front.

hopefully they can at least make the steering have that same type of feedback and feel and make the transmission as snappy as a DCT.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by bkfastwagon

Not clear what that has to do with 2022 IS500? BMW 330i is also a terribly boring car, does that mean M340 and M3 are soulless?

Lexus just are not my cup of tea. They do absolutely NOTHING for me (except the LFA).

[Banana Clipper]

Looks like my wife’s old IS250. Fun car but wasn’t very fast. V8 should be nice and black on clack would be a killer look for any IS

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

Most cars you are buying aren't "built for the track" including M cars.

Pass me some of that good sh*t you are smoking.

BMW M3 CS Is The Second Fastest Sedan To Lap The Nurburgring

https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-m3-cs-i...he-nurburgring

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

Pass me some of that good sh*t you are smoking.

BMW M3 CS Is The Second Fastest Sedan To Lap The Nurburgring

https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-m3-cs-i...he-nurburgring

My statement didn't include CS and CSL variants. Sure you can take Comps on the track but even those are more for street use.

This is by design from BMW and they're own thinking behind the M nomenclature.

IS500 is not competing with an M3 competition, a CS or CSL variant of an M car.

Sure there's some overlap with an M3 and M3 comp, but the IS is designed for spirited street use. That's one of the reasons this is not branded as an ISF.

Come through, I'll share some of my good shit.

[EDWYER]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

Sound is part of the equation for many.

And a big part at that.

[damnitBobby]

Meh after having daily driven the f80 comp for a couple years I’d say it’s the car lacking soul lol

Not a mag racer so could care less which car has the better lap times on the n-ring lol. If I was after lap times I wouldn’t be driving a hopped up 3 series I’d probably be in a Porsche.

I’ll take the V8 please.

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

My statement didn't include CS and CSL variants. Sure you can take Comps on the track but even those are more for street use.

This is by design from BMW and they're own thinking behind the M nomenclature.

IS500 is not competing with an M3 competition, a CS or CSL variant of an M car.

Sure there's some overlap with an M3 and M3 comp, but the IS is designed for spirited street use. That's one of the reasons this is not branded as an ISF.

Come through, I'll share some of my good shit.

You just said M cars "aren't built for the track." What are they built for then?

No CS or CSL variants. How about the M4 GTS? Which is significantly faster around the Ring than the M3 CS.

F90 competition ran a 7:35 around the ring. Which is even faster than a F80 CS or a 400k Lexus LFA.

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

You just said M cars "aren't built for the track." What are they built for then?

No CS or CSL variants. How about the M4 GTS? Which is significantly faster around the Ring than the M3 CS.

F90 competition ran a 7:35 around the ring. Which is even faster than a F80 CS or a 400k Lexus LFA.

I thought you'd get the gist of what I'm saying. As you move up from the M car to Comp to CS to CSL and yes, GTS, the car starts getting skewed more and more towards the track use as opposed to the street.

I'm not saying an M car (not a CS, CSL or GTS) isn't capable on the track or can't be used on a track, I'm saying it's not designed for track use. Just like a track car isnt designed for you daily to work and back. Sure you can do it, but Is it optimized to do so, prob not. You can putter around town in your m4 GTS and fill it up with water for the injection system in a Costco parking lot, but that thing is prob not designed to be a grocery getter and when you scrape the front splitter over speed bumps you'll get the gentle reminder that this is much better on a track.

The IS500 is not designed to be a track car. That's my point. It competes with something between an m340i and an M3 and that's what it's designed to do.

Really don't get what the issue is here

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

I thought you'd get the gist of what I'm saying. As you move up from the M car to Comp to CS to CSL and yes, GTS, the car starts getting skewed more and more towards the track use as opposed to the street.

I'm not saying an M car (not a CS, CSL or GTS) isn't capable on the track or can't be used on a track, I'm saying it's not designed for track use. Just like a track car isnt designed for you daily to work and back. Sure you can do it, but Is it optimized to do so, prob not. You can putter around town in your m4 GTS and fill it up with water for the injection system in a Costco parking lot, but that thing is prob not designed to be a grocery getter and when you scrape the front splitter over speed bumps you'll get the gentle reminder that this is much better on a track.

The IS500 is not designed to be a track car. That's my point. It competes with something between an m340i and an M3 and that's what it's designed to do.

Really don't get what the issue is here

No need to keep explaining yourself. Your points are very well articulated. I don’t see anything wrong with what you wrote.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

Meh after having daily driven the f80 comp for a couple years I’d say it’s the car lacking soul lol

Not a mag racer so could care less which car has the better lap times on the n-ring lol. If I was after lap times I wouldn’t be driving a hopped up 3 series I’d probably be in a Porsche.

I’ll take the V8 please.

There is some truth to your statement. Daily driven an F80 and now track driven my second F80 and I've found driving on the street is lacking unless I drive like a "typical" bimmer driver-speeding and taking turns much faster than sanity allows for. This car begs to be opened up and it wasn't until I took it to the track that I realized what this car actually is. Highway pulls are fun, stoplight races are fine, and a poodle can think that fetching a stick at the park is fun, but wolves hunt for blood in the wild.

[bkfastwagon]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i agree it kind of feels like a cop out. "well our RCF can't compete with the M cars, so lets make it a 4 door and have it compete with the m-sport lineup"

The stock M340i is quite a bit faster than the RCF straight line, a bit faster on track too. Add in a tune (which you can't really do on an NA lexus) and the gap grows alot more in favor of the BMW.

so it come back around to the question: is the V8 sound, throttle response, and 'feel' of the car enough to make up for the performance deficit?

personally i hope it is. but they have their work cutout for them. if they can make the car feel like an E39 M5 in terms of the feel they might have a hit.

Lets be honest, even if Lexus made faster cars than BMW, a good number of people here would still choose BMW for the badge. Lets say Lexus makes IS F with V6 TT and just as fast as the new M3, would people here rush over to get it over the M3? Obviously, Lexus knows this and decided to go a different route. I like that it's not another 6 cylinder TT- we have enough of that already

[nioh_lbbm2]

i love where Lexus is at nowadays with their look and reliability. I just wish they'd update their interior to be on par with other luxury brands in the same segment.

[E92inNC]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

i love where Lexus is at nowadays with their look and reliability. I just wish they'd update their interior to be on par with other luxury brands in the same segment.

My sis had a 2015 IS350 and I thought the interior was a very nice place to be. Really the only things I thought were better in the bimmer is the steering wheel and the sport seats.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

i love where Lexus is at nowadays with their look and reliability. I just wish they'd update their interior to be on par with other luxury brands in the same segment.

When you just carry almost everything over from the previous already reliable almost decade old generation, reliability isn't going to change much.

[x622]

But I already had a 2012 Ultrasonic Blue Mica ISF with suspension, longtubes, an exhaust and some carbon lip stuff. Why would I want another when there are better options?

Why is lexus dead? Everything in their entire lineup sans the new shitty CUVs is literally decades old at this point. How old is the tacoma platform? The LX570? Why do you buy these things when the competition offers you so much more? Like I didn't have issues with my ISF, but I also didn't have issues with my German stuff either. Why wouldn't you just buy a 2010+ ISF? The navigation in these new ones is so shitty you might as well use the old stuff which works ok

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by x622

But I already had a 2012 Ultrasonic Blue Mica ISF with suspension, longtubes, an exhaust and some carbon lip stuff. Why would I want another when there are better options?

Why is lexus dead? Everything in their entire lineup sans the new shitty CUVs is literally decades old at this point. How old is the tacoma platform? The LX570? Why do you buy these things when the competition offers you so much more? Like I didn't have issues with my ISF, but I also didn't have issues with my German stuff either. Why wouldn't you just buy a 2010+ ISF? The navigation in these new ones is so shitty you might as well use the old stuff which works ok

We can speculate, but i'd imagine Lexus isn't reinventing their cars because they have a much bigger project coming, that's their Solid state platform. No doubt that's likely a big reason why they haven't been re-designing aging platforms, but just do enough to get by until Toyota's EV sweeps into the showrooms. Again, just an opinion.

LX and for that matter, the GX is old but it has a VERY loyal client base. Lexus for that matter has a massive loyal client base, those who wants a reasonably well equipped car that will start every single morning without any CEL or expensive maintenance and don't care for the badge.

You also gotta consider Lexus clientele isn't moved by flashy screens and all the tech. In that regard, Lexus knows its client, rather than dictate what the client want and introduce a bunch of stuff the client would have no desire for, they design for their clients, old and familiar. Yes it maybe outdated to many people, they know their client, its why they have such a loyal following.

Sides, Lexus is selling aging platforms just fine. RX outsells the X5, ES outselling the 5, yes 3 outsells the IS but the 3 also outsells everyone else.

[supra93]

The next gen Land Cruiser has been spotted and rumored to be unveiled pretty soon, so I'm pretty sure that means a new LX and GX is just round the corner. On a side note we're getting a new Tundra this year and a new Sequoia and 4Runner in 2022.