[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by The J-Man

These numbers are actually quite bad for BMW. Without the X1 and 2 series, overall sales would be DOWN. Now consider that X1 and 2 are entry level low margin cars and that the higher priced models are flat or decreasing. Then factor in the subsidization of the electric models. Shocking that BMW is sticking to the normal 7 year cycle on the X5. Buyers are obviously viewing it as long in the tooth. I have a 2020 X5 purchased in 2019. It’s the longest I’ve ever owned a car because there is no compelling reason for me to upgrade.

I bet revenues will be down 5% in North America based on the mix shift to lower priced models, even accounting for the price increases.

The X5 did undergo the LCI, but I agree there’s no compelling reason for people to replace unless lease is up or warranty expires. I wonder if people are replacing their X5 with X3 due to the increase in size and lower price.

Check out their Q1 results globally: price hikes and financing rates appear to be causing a mix problem (overall deliveries up slightly, but revenues and gross margins and profitability down). Will be interesting to see Q2 results in a few weeks.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by AndreiPopescu

Here before people start to shit on the XM for having no sales.

The XM sold more in 2023 alone than the Urus has since 2018 till now

You keep repeating this falsehood. This is not true. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...-record-2023/#


https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/lambor...sales-figures/

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by FCX5

You keep repeating this falsehood. This is not true. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...-record-2023/#


https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/lambor...sales-figures/

Wow, that’s incredible.

Perhaps BMW should combine the iX & XM in their reporting.

The Urus is on a totally different level, but it’s loud and obnoxious for my taste.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by The J-Man

These numbers are actually quite bad for BMW. Without the X1 and 2 series, overall sales would be DOWN. Now consider that X1 and 2 are entry level low margin cars and that the higher priced models are flat or decreasing. Then factor in the subsidization of the electric models. Shocking that BMW is sticking to the normal 7 year cycle on the X5. Buyers are obviously viewing it as long in the tooth. I have a 2020 X5 purchased in 2019. It’s the longest I’ve ever owned a car because there is no compelling reason for me to upgrade.

If this is the case, it's not surprising. New car prices now are completely insane nearly across the board and unless you're a cash buyer, who are these people paying 9-10% on a car over 60-72 months? The best I can do is around 6.25% on new unless the manufacturer is running a deal, and I know for sure a big portion of people aren't even getting that terrible rate. Most Americans are terrible at finances, but how can people be THIS bad to be buying these cars? These new car prices are a horrible financial trap unless you have cash and even with cash you're being ripped off.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by NewMinnesotaBMWOwner

Perhaps I am misreading this chart, but it sure looks like the X3 has outsold the X5 so far this year and the top seller across the line.

Omission on my part. One of the best selling models was the intended description. Nice catch!

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by NewMinnesotaBMWOwner

Perhaps I am misreading this chart, but it sure looks like the X3 has outsold the X5 so far this year and the top seller across the line.

X3 and X5 sales have depended upon output from Plant Spartanburg for the last ten-years. Often we have a long waiting list for X3 and just can't get enough production spots. Sometimes the same has been true for the X5. Demand doesn't always seem to line up with the production when we sit with a glut of X5 on the lot and can't get X3s—or vice-verse.

Back in the '80s when BMW began its "Heritage" ad campaign to increase 7-series sales, it was understood that the limiting profit factor in BMW as a company was production slots and they made more money building (and selling) larger cars. Apparently it didn't cost much more to produce a 7-er compared to a 3-er in actual opportunity costs, but BMW could charge the dealers much more for the 7. So they tried to increase 7series sales to increase their bottom line and maximize the value of each production slot. That could also explain recent X5 surplus to X3 shortages.

If BMW were simply to adjust production to demand, you'd not have a year-long waiting period for some M-car orders. Of course that may not take into account those Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) penalties. Which could also explain X3 outselling X5. I even had a BMW rep tell me last year the reason it was so difficult to get an order spot for M440i was because of the CAFE limits and BMW's push to sell more 4-cylinder cars.

[DarkstarZero]

Any time you have to offer $20k incentives to move a vehicle, it's a sales disaster.

[Deke]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

Any time you have to offer $20k incentives to move a vehicle, it's a sales disaster.

I've heard the XM is "boomy" sounding inside, which at any price, would be a deal breaker for me. My old Yukon did that and it drove me nuts.

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by AndreiPopescu

In 2023 lamborghini sold 1761 urus' worldwide. For the XM, 2315 was just US sales. US would have about 25% market share worldwide which means 9000-10000 XMs were sold worldwide in 2023. This means that in its first year alone XM outsold urus worldwide even though they have been making the urus since 2018.

It took Mercedes 10 years to sell more G wagon units per year than what BMW did for XM sales in the US in their first year.

Annual XM sales are also higher than Porsche cayenne turbo GT, Aston martin DBX, Ferrari purosangue, Audi RSQ8, Maserati levante trofeo, etc etc.

lol there’s no way there are 10000 of these turds being driven anywhere

And it’s insulting comparing the xm to anything but itself it’s just not that good

[ddavtian]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

Any time you have to offer $20k incentives to move a vehicle, it's a sales disaster.

What if you have $40-50k profit margin to start with? Still profitable after $20k discount.

[DarkstarZero]

Originally Posted by ddavtian

What if you have $40-50k profit margin to start with? Still profitable after $20k discount.

I guarantee that's not the plan.

I have it from someone on the inside at BMW NA, the XM is considered a flop.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

I guarantee that's not the plan.

I have it from someone on the inside at BMW NA, the XM is considered a flop.

It seems clear that BMW has suffered a setback in trying to go upmarket and hit all the niches. Profitability is down 20%, so they’ll need to make some hard decisions.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

I guarantee that's not the plan.

I have it from someone on the inside at BMW NA, the XM is considered a flop.

The XM is selling against the XB7 on one end and X5M on the other. It’s biggest differentiator is the hybrid drivetrain, but it looks like it is not sufficient.

I’d personally take a full loaded Alpina over the XM. JMHO.

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/x-mo...uv/alpina.html

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by supershaft

lol there’s no way there are 10000 of these turds being driven anywhere

And it’s insulting comparing the xm to anything but itself it’s just not that good

If one were considering an XM and had money to buy a Purosangue, DBX or Urus…it would be a very tough sell. The XM is priced in the Range Rover and Cayenne range vs the high end luxury SUV. JMHO.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by FCX5

The XM is selling against the XB7 on one end and X5M on the other. It’s biggest differentiator is the hybrid drivetrain, but it looks like it is not sufficient.

I’d personally take a full loaded Alpina over the XM. JMHO.

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/x-mo...uv/alpina.html

There are two problems with the XM relative to the XB7 or RR: poor ride quality & clunky drivetrain. The rear seat lounge might be a nice place to be, but take it on some rough pavement and see how nice it is… on the other hand, it’s more agile and probably quicker in real world use.

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by FCX5

If one were considering an XM and had money to buy a Purosangue, DBX or Urus…it would be a very tough sell. The XM is priced in the Range Rover and Cayenne range vs the high end luxury SUV. JMHO.

By the same token if someone has 160k to spend on a XM you can just as easily spend a bit more for a RR or Cayenne.

I was in this boat in 2022. The x5 rides like shit and the x7 is too cushy. I’d have to get an alpina x7 and at that point a cayenne turbo was more appealing for not much more money. Not to mention it put me closer to the top of the list for a gt3 😬

If money is an issue the x3/5/7 are absolutely fantastic for the money

[jri_21]

Originally Posted by m3cole

Very interesting, so because they sit on dealer lots in the US just means they are allocating too many to US market then. The dealer I worked at sat on the same two for 6+ months each. The dealer I now work close to (different then previous employer) has had 2 sitting for over a year.

I’ve seen two in my dealer and they’ve been out the door in a couple weeks.
Nevertheless and regardless of it’s styling woes, the XM is competing in a category with SUVs that none are less than $200K.
It is the only vehicle in that category less than that.
It probably doesn’t mean much to a person who can afford a $200K car/SUV, but…it definitely seems to be a factor.
Another factor might be that the XM is a TRUE BMW product…anybody buying an Urus knows that they’re buying an AUDI/VW SUV with a nicer design and a Lamborghini logo stuck to it.
Consumer markets/preferences never cease to amaze me…remember how many posts we had here of EVERYBODY lambasting the G8x’s?
NOBODY was going to buy them, horrible, etc…they have flown off the lots like hotcakes!
Just my 2¢ worth. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[m3cole]

Originally Posted by jri_21

I’ve seen two in my dealer and they’ve been out the door in a couple weeks.
Nevertheless and regardless of it’s styling woes, the XM is competing in a category with SUVs that none are less than $200K.
It is the only vehicle in that category less than that.
It probably doesn’t mean much to a person who can afford a $200K car/SUV, but…it definitely seems to be a factor.
Another factor might be that the XM is a TRUE BMW product…anybody buying an Urus knows that they’re buying an AUDI/VW SUV with a nicer design and a Lamborghini logo stuck to it.
Consumer markets/preferences never cease to amaze me…remember how many posts we had here of EVERYBODY lambasting the G8x’s?
NOBODY was going to buy them, horrible, etc…they have flown off the lots like hotcakes!
Just my 2¢ worth. 🤷🏻‍♂️

True, my only rebuttal to this is the g8x cars were hated because of the way they looked. But the performance of these cars is off the chain. No other car sub 100k is making 700+ whp with 2 mods one of which being software. The XM doesn’t fall short because of styling it falls short everywhere. The X5M and x6m outperform in every way except efficiency. And for less money. If you put 2 spec sheets in front of me that were purely numbers and no design or whatever, people are taking x5m based off numbers, save money, same seating capacity, faster in a straight line, on a track, everywhere in between. And it’s 40k less, you could has an x5m daily and a 997 cabriolet for the same price as XM. I’m not saying the XM is the worst car in the world by any means, but the mark was missed. It’s not different enough or far and away better than what BMW already offers. I wouldn’t say the XM is in the same category as urus either, the urus is the size of an X4m, being inside one and standing next to one, it’s very much so smaller than an xm and even an x5. Even though it’s the cheapest in the category, it definitely feels the cheapest. And I’m by no means a fan of the other cars in the class. The 200k suv segment is weird as hell, I’ll leave it at that haha

[bjcarls]

In the US you can't option a new Urus as they are allocated. Its a supply issue, not a demand issue. Opposite of the XM, plenty of supply.

[CatchF22DirtyF30]

Originally Posted by RigaTony1982

Or the electric 4 series is lumped in with that total.

Ahh yes that is fair as well.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Having owned the g29, I would say it’s stuck in the middle of luxury and sport. Still a great car for the price especially relative to a boxster. It’s lightweight relatively to the M lineup.

The handschalter is a necessary upgrade to make the Z4 more athletic. But it needs ventilated seats and merino leather at a minimum, especially at the higher M40 price point. The car is a luxury cruiser ride quality without the interior luxury feel.

That said, the overall market demand for roadsters has shrunk considerably, so I’m not sure it would matter.

And the real problem now is the C8 prices have come down and those are being discounted.

Prices will continue to go down and there's plenty of inventory. A C8 Z51 is significantly less expensive than a G8X M3/M4 at this point.