Horsepower Freaks to tune the N54

smdandb2 · 05-19-2009, 04:16 PM

I like how you can hear the throttle shutting (or I guess ignition cutting out) when he is accellerating straight. I heard it a few times.

Seems like a tuning issue.

I just watched 2 more videos. Both cars break up big time in the top end! Awesome... just awesome.

IIRC, they are tuning with a piggyback. Well, they dont call it a piggyback...

MSS54 stays in the car, so its not a standalone.

BavarianBullet · 05-19-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan@Motorwerks

Is this the same Robert?

Absolutely hilarious!

= HELLRIDE : A scare the crap out of you experience for those that think MPG is the most important part of a car

That would have a been a lot more entertaining if the car was on slicks.

I can recall a few hellrides from back in the day... glovebox flying open dumping contents on unwary passenger, looking out a side window as windshield going 80+ mph down a side street sideways with parked cars lining both sides.

Ahh, the good old days. (I'm glad I survived them).

onelove · 05-19-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric@AMS

EXACTLY! it is very important to understand that making power in the E46 M3 is night and day compared to this car. Its not impossible but its a completely different animal compared to just about any other car.

This is why we are where we are right now with upgrading to a big single on our shop car. Building the kit would take only a couple of weeks. But making sure we can build a fuel system to accompany that and more importantly a computer to control it is the problem. Luckly we are working on all of that right now so there is an end in sight

In the meantime hold tight. We will find a way around it and I am sure we will not be the only ones.

Eric

Eric-

We're looking into similar prospects in regards to the computer. May have a solution in the near future. Sounds like there are more than a few shops with 335s working on hardware behinds the scenes. I agree the current fuel system seems to be the largest hurdle at this point. Creating a turbo kit / manifolds / standard fuel system seems to be the easiest part, once the electronics and fuel is solved it's just a matter of seeing how much the factory engine likes. I'm willing to bet the initial solution involves piggy backing a standalone over the factory controls with a hybrid fuel system until more development can be done on improving the DI system.

-Wes@Titan

GreenPlease · 05-19-2009, 10:15 PM

Just for consideration: perhaps run a single natural gas injector in the intake manifold. Don't have to worry about distribution as NG is naturally diffuse. Obvious problem is the big heavy NG tank...

scheherazade · 05-20-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenPlease

Just for consideration: perhaps run a single natural gas injector in the intake manifold. Don't have to worry about distribution as NG is naturally diffuse. Obvious problem is the big heavy NG tank...

NG would be better before the throttle, so that the gas is 100% evenly spread out throughout the manifold, because the air going into the manifold already has the gas mixed with it.

But if they can make a more powerful DI pump, all the better.

I think that any piggy back with a crank angle sensor can be used to drive regular port injection with gasoline into the intake manifold, be it in 1, 2, 3 or 6 points. Initial tune would be a mess to get through though... You'd have nothing to base it off of, other than winging it and trying to adjust/converge on the right timing.

-scheherazade

smdandb2 · 05-20-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheherazade

NG would be better before the throttle, so that the gas is 100% evenly spread out throughout the manifold, because the air going into the manifold already has the gas mixed with it.

Thats not the case with DI, which I believe is what he is referring to.

The DI directly injects into the cylinders.

Cyruz · 05-20-2009, 10:54 AM

wow is ALL I can say, just wow

KWY91 · 05-20-2009, 10:55 AM

Yay go us N54'ers!! can't wait to see the outcome!

scheherazade · 05-20-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smdandb2

Thats not the case with DI, which I believe is what he is referring to.

The DI directly injects into the cylinders.

No, he's talking about a hybrid fuel systems. Adding a new injector [for regular port injection], at the intake manifold. (Except injecting natural gas instead of more gasoline).

GreenPlease wrote :

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenPlease

Just for consideration: perhaps run a single natural gas injector in the intake manifold. Don't have to worry about distribution as NG is naturally diffuse. Obvious problem is the big heavy NG tank...

There were 3 different topics in my response.

Response to GreenPlease

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheherazade

NG would be better before the throttle, so that the gas is 100% evenly spread out throughout the manifold, because the air going into the manifold already has the gas mixed with it.

AMS posted that CP-E and AMS are working on an improved DI system. My response : YAY!

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheherazade

But if they can make a more powerful DI pump, all the better.

Comment about how we could time the new injectors, using a piggy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I think that any piggy back with a crank angle sensor can be used to drive regular port injection with gasoline into the intake manifold, be it in 1, 2, 3 or 6 points. Initial tune would be a mess to get through though... You'd have nothing to base it off of, other than winging it and trying to adjust/converge on the right timing.

-scheherazade

dlbrooks18 · 08-03-2009, 02:26 PM

New info:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...384&highlight=

roozie2001 · 08-03-2009, 02:51 PM

sweet. i talked to chris at HPF about 2 weeks ago. He said once they start lookin into upgrading the turbos theyre gonna look at 2 routes. One being a twin turbo upgrade and the other a Single turbo. see whichever is possible and works best.

skate_E92 · 08-03-2009, 03:18 PM

damn, hpf piggyback, ic, and exhaust!

newb question but what is bpu??

scheherazade · 08-03-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skateDFWe92

damn, hpf piggyback, ic, and exhaust!

newb question but what is bpu??

basic power upgrade

i.e. 'typical simple bolt-ons'

*or so I think*

-scheherazade

GreenPlease · 08-03-2009, 03:35 PM

If I recall, didn't Eric@AMS state that there were space constraints with going to a big single?

skate_E92 · 08-03-2009, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheherazade

basic power upgrade

i.e. 'typical simple bolt-ons'

*or so I think*

-scheherazade

oh right on, sounds right lol thanks

Eric@AMS · 08-03-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenPlease

If I recall, didn't Eric@AMS state that there were space constraints with going to a big single?

not at all actually, there are space constraints with going big twins

Eric

GreenPlease · 08-03-2009, 05:48 PM

^
Ah, that's right.

Sniz · 08-03-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan@Motorwerks

Is this the same Robert?

Absolutely hilarious!

I love that video

Zeph · 08-03-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric@AMS

not at all actually, there are space constraints with going big twins

Eric

so, what's the hold-up?

Eric@AMS · 08-03-2009, 07:06 PM

Fuel

no point in building a big turbo kit until we know we have a fuel solution for it. Rest assured if that gets figured out we will be right on this

Eric

nebz · 08-03-2009, 07:36 PM

bigger turbo more lag?

Zeph · 08-03-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nebz

bigger turbo more lag?

I remember reading that a GT35R (for example) should be able to hit max boost @ 2400 RPM's. I can't speak for anyone else, but if I want to go fast I am not in a gear with my RPM's that low except 1st, which is a traction issue anyway.

N/A as long as turbo isn't too big on this engine/setup.

05-19-2009, 04:16 PM	#111
smdandb2 this space left intentionally blank 17 Rep 293 Posts Drives: Blue One Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: BYU iTrader: (0)	I like how you can hear the throttle shutting (or I guess ignition cutting out) when he is accellerating straight. I heard it a few times. Seems like a tuning issue. I just watched 2 more videos. Both cars break up big time in the top end! Awesome... just awesome. IIRC, they are tuning with a piggyback. Well, they dont call it a piggyback... MSS54 stays in the car, so its not a standalone.
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05-19-2009, 10:15 PM	#114
GreenPlease Lieutenant Colonel 149 Rep 1,629 Posts Drives: BMW 335i e92 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orlando Florida iTrader: (2)	Just for consideration: perhaps run a single natural gas injector in the intake manifold. Don't have to worry about distribution as NG is naturally diffuse. Obvious problem is the big heavy NG tank...
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05-20-2009, 10:54 AM	#117
Cyruz Captain 89 Rep 619 Posts Drives: Montego Blue 335i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NY iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 335i [0.00] 2007 335i [0.00]	wow is ALL I can say, just wow __________________ Living on the fringe of lunacy my zenfolio photo gallery
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05-20-2009, 10:55 AM	#118
KWY91 Major 40 Rep 1,295 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW M3 (on order), 458 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Exeter, Devon iTrader: (3)	Yay go us N54'ers!! can't wait to see the outcome! __________________ Wanna know my mods for my 335i? It's here! http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=blue+water Lamborghini's Mica Orange E93 M3 Akrapovic Exhaust //Challenge Rear CF diffuser//ESS VT-575 Supercharger
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08-03-2009, 02:26 PM	#120
dlbrooks18 Brigadier General 164 Rep 3,735 Posts Drives: e90 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (2)	New info: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...384&highlight=
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08-03-2009, 02:51 PM	#121
roozie2001 Just some guy 52 Rep 1,531 Posts Drives: 2008 White 335i sedan Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (4)	sweet. i talked to chris at HPF about 2 weeks ago. He said once they start lookin into upgrading the turbos theyre gonna look at 2 routes. One being a twin turbo upgrade and the other a Single turbo. see whichever is possible and works best. __________________ 2008 BMW 335i/Sedan/Alpine White/Terra/Steptronic/Premium Package/Sports package/Comfort Access/USB/Sirius
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08-03-2009, 03:18 PM	#122
skate_E92 Captain 33 Rep 688 Posts Drives: 09' e92 335i Join Date: May 2009 Location: SoCal iTrader: (3)	damn, hpf piggyback, ic, and exhaust! newb question but what is bpu?? __________________ TX. 2 CA.
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08-03-2009, 03:35 PM	#124
GreenPlease Lieutenant Colonel 149 Rep 1,629 Posts Drives: BMW 335i e92 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orlando Florida iTrader: (2)	If I recall, didn't Eric@AMS state that there were space constraints with going to a big single?
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08-03-2009, 05:48 PM	#127
GreenPlease Lieutenant Colonel 149 Rep 1,629 Posts Drives: BMW 335i e92 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Orlando Florida iTrader: (2)	^ Ah, that's right.
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08-03-2009, 07:06 PM	#130
Eric@AMS Captain 74 Rep 726 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: West Chicago, IL iTrader: (5)	Fuel no point in building a big turbo kit until we know we have a fuel solution for it. Rest assured if that gets figured out we will be right on this Eric
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08-03-2009, 07:36 PM	#131
nebz Captain 23 Rep 681 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: nyc iTrader: (6)	bigger turbo more lag?
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