[enrita]

Originally Posted by jhershorin

This is why you went with a JB3. You don't understand the most basic of concepts I mentioned.

The LED goes in the vent so it is visible. The knock sensor goes on the motor. The LED goes off every time knock is detected.

Making a knock mic/stethescope is one of the most widely used tuning tools.

As for your preference for the jb3 because it relies on factory knock sensor - wouldn't you prefer a system that makes 5whp less but never knocks instead of making a few whp more and knocking every time you get on the gas waiting for the ECU to pull timing?

Me and Shiv (he is the designer of his system and I am just a supporter of CP-e's) agree whole heartedly and are on the same page even though we are kinda competing? I guess educated people just agree more.

you are really good in telling stories....

[jhershorin]

Stories? Dude how do you think the JB3 works. Go monitor knock on your car. Then give it another try. I bought a JB3 excited it would work and was happy with the power but not happy that it knocked so much. I build cars. I enjoy it. I had a regular mazda3 that made just shy of 600whp on race gas and made 432whp on pump gas. As a result I am VERY skeptical about tuning solutions. Since the JB3 doesn't allow you to tune I wanted to monitor everything and make sure I was okay with what it did. If you are okay with your timing being advanced till the car knocks and then having timing pulled thats great. BMW did an AMAZING job with this ECU. I have never seen a system so fast to react. The car will knock and by the next compression cylce its gone. It pulls timing that fast. Personally I would rather control the timing and not have any knock occasions at all.

[Terrance28]

Originally Posted by jhershorin

This is why you went witha JB3. You don't understand the most basic of concepts I mentioned.

The LED goes in the vent so it is visible. The knock sensor goes on the motor. The LED goes off every time knock is detected.

Making a knock mic/stethescope is one of the most widely used tuning tools.

As for your preference for the jb3 because it relies on factory knock sensor - wouldn't you prefer a system that makes 5whp less but never knocks instead of making a few whp more and knocking every time you get on the gas waiting for the ECU to pull timing?

Me and Shiv (he is the designer of his system and I am just a supporter of CP-e's) agree whole heartedly and are on the same page even though we are kinda competing? I guess educated people just agree more.

Wow guy with only 28 post and sounding like a douche is not recommended. You and shiv will get along fine. Your smug attitude doesn't make you seem any smarter so knock it off.

[Terrance28]

Originally Posted by ims

i like the PROcede, personal preference im sure the JB3 is amazing... but I love the car with the PROcede V3 - i dont see a need to change... and its always being updated... plus shiv is like right here, hey shiv... always following the threads and asking for feedback and answering questions thats what makes me feel this tune is truly user adjustable (theoretically and practically) and obviously common issues or any problem you have can/should/would be figured out on e90post.com

IMO-IMO-IMO

Thats not fair, Terry is not on these boards because he was going toe to toe with shiv when shiv would make his accusations and he got banned. If you go to N54tech Terry is very active, email him and he emails you back in minutes. Terry is always asking for our feedback and what we want out of our tune, so that argument is nonexistent.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

Wow guy with only 28 post and sounding like a douche is not recommended. You and shiv will get along fine. Your smug attitude doesn't make you seem any smarter so knock it off.

Mike is more than welcome to comment on this. Up to now, no respond to my request.

Cheers,
Eugen

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Price is not the issue in case one tune rides the factory knocking system. I'd love Mike to comment on this.

Your flash also rides the factory knock system, as does the V3, as does every currently available tune. Don't believe me? Do a dyno on pump gas, then do a dyno on race gas without changing anything. If you pickup a significant amount of power you were riding the knock sensors the whole time. If this discussion is going to go down the familiar CPS vs. nonCPS path then lets at least keep it factual.

There are more nonCPS N54 tunes in use than ones with CPS, and there are probably more JB3s in use than all the other popular piggybacks combined. There has never been any indication over the past two years that CPS is safer or more reliable than nonCPS. When you study plugs from cars with thousands of hard miles you find no indication of knock. And that is cars that run race gas maps on 91 octane. Motors that should have grenaded.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Mike is more than welcome to comment on this. Up to now, no respond to my request.

Cheers,
Eugen

Had a late night so just getting up Comment above..

Mike

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Had a late night so just getting up Comment above..

Mike

Good points, let's the discussion continue, I like this thread ...

[e.n335]

BTW, are JBx or v3 able to be put on top of an ECU-flash, being transparent and adjustable from 0-100% ( whatever this is ), in case you'd like to know what your car is capable to ? I use Auterra to monitor the engine. ECU-flashes usually don't take much care about supporting modifications. Well, my flash is optimized to respect the modded OEM DP's ( 200 cell metal catalysts ) which gains some power but no other options availabe. According to my Oil-Temps ( thanks, VKM ) and the coolant temps I could raise the settings a bit . I'm on new turbos as well ( cause: wastegate rattling ). I currently put down 360whp / 365wtq.

Thanks,
Eugen

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ims

$$$ difference is is a valid point but its not all that much IMO, especially between two amazing tunes difference is nothing when it comes to dealing with these tunes and cars... people spend more than that amount on car washes and detailing - speaking of which I wanna grab that carnauba wax stuff.. looks impressive.-->

none the less JB3 is a very powerful tune

The cost is just one small factor, but its something that is really easy to quantify. I just wanted to point out that the BT is more or less invaluable to anyone running a tune and that JB3 buyers can get it for only $120 is huge. Also forum people tend to discount the Pin Out JB3 for $349 but we ship a few of those per week. Customers who get them absolutely love the performance/cost ratio. You get all the benefits of a full price PnP JB3 for 2/3 the price!

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by e.n335

BTW, are JBx or v3 able to be put on top of an ECU-flash, being transparent and adjustable from 0-100% ( whatever this is ), in case you'd like to know what your car is capable to ? I use Auterra to monitor the engine. ECU-flashes usually don't take much care about supporting modifications.

Thanks,
Eugen

BMS has a special JB+ map that lets you add from 0-2psi on top of a flash, adjustable. But you need a BT scanner to monitor things and dial it in.

Mike

[enrita]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

BMS has a special JB+ map that lets you add from 0-2psi on top of a flash, adjustable. But you need a BT scanner to monitor things and dial it in.

Mike

I put JBplus (1,5 psi) on top of GIAC Stage 1 with great results. Car was running strong and constant till redline over and over.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

BMS has a special JB+ map that lets you add from 0-2psi on top of a flash, adjustable. But you need a BT scanner to monitor things and dial it in.

Mike

Thanks, I'll send a PM. I use Auterra.

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by enrita

I put JBplus (1,5 psi) on top of GIAC Stage 1 with great results. Car was running strong and constant till redline over and over.

Are you sure the JB+ really did any difference on your car?

[enrita]

yes picked up 30 hps.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by enrita

yes picked up 30 hps.

+1 - Sounds great. Any issues ? I'm using 100 octane RON and prefer NOT to use meth. This is a personal preference only, I don't like to deal with gas AND meth. The car is my daily driver.

[per]

Raising the boost on top of a tune! maybe ok to use a JB+ on stock boost .
i wouldn´t do it on higher boost levels, without adding fuel.
I was kind of surprised that you did it on the event enrita ,there are many things that could go wrong

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Your flash also rides the factory knock system, as does the V3, as does every currently available tune. Don't believe me? Do a dyno on pump gas, then do a dyno on race gas without changing anything. If you pickup a significant amount of power you were riding the knock sensors the whole time. If this discussion is going to go down the familiar CPS vs. nonCPS path then lets at least keep it factual.

This is where your lack of understanding comes in. If you dyno a PROcede car (running the appropriate map), you will find that adding race gas will provide minimal gains. This is because the perceived DME ignition advance (which is dataloggable) is already following the desired/max ignition advance curve. So, no, it is not routinely "riding the knock sensor". And neither are most flashes that I've tested (Dinan or GIAC). Adding race gas to do them will provide minimal gains as well. Which is also the reason that they will not benefit from meth injection as there is little or no more ignition advance that the DME will dump in once knock (which is there to any significant degree, in the first place) is eliminated.

The JB3, on the other hand, will usually gain 20-50whp (depending on map) once race gas is added. This is because the DME detects knock on pump gas and actively retards ignition timing. We've been through this before. It's been proven. Let's not go there again because I feel we are beyond this.

There are more nonCPS N54 tunes in use than ones with CPS, and there are probably more JB3s in use than all the other popular piggybacks combined. There has never been any indication over the past two years that CPS is safer or more reliable than nonCPS. When you study plugs from cars with thousands of hard miles you find no indication of knock. And that is cars that run race gas maps on 91 octane. Motors that should have grenaded.

How many plugs in a direct injection system have you "read"? Ever, for a minute, stop to think that the typical rules of thumbs don't apply too well to spark plugs that doesn't even accumulate significant carbon build up. I've heard detonation. Like actually heard it. Clear as day. And found no aluminum spots on my plugs. Does that mean the car didn't detonate? No, it just means the pistons aren't prone to shedding bits of their aluminum.

Furthermore, listing to you, mmmotornutz and Terrance defend the JB3s lack of ignition control without any real knowledge of engine tuning is becoming a bit too much even for me. mmmotornutz's comment about trusting the factory knock control system more than the PROcede's was especially disturbing since I would have thought that anyone will minimal understanding of the subject would know that the factory knock control system isn't disabled with the PROcede as Terry and crew have been suggested. It just has less work to do. Let's not forget that Terry even marketed the JB3 as having ignition control (through CPS offsetting) until it was proven by 3rd party bench testing to be untrue. That's like conducting a front impact test on a new car only to discover that it doesn't have airbags. And then making arguments about them being a poor way to protect yourself in a crash. "It burns your face" "They obstruct your vision when they inflate" "They are scary when they go POOF". We're heard it all before.

Shiv

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by enrita

yes picked up 30 hps.

Ok.
This is the reason for my question:

Me vs you (with Giac stage 1 flash)
[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2MRpdso4H2w&hl=sv&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2MRpdso4H2w&hl=sv&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]

...and

Me vs you (with Giac stage 1 flash, combined with JB+):
[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VFOVE15OjzQ&hl=sv&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VFOVE15OjzQ&hl=sv&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by per

Raising the boost on top of a tune! maybe ok to use a JB+ on stock boost .
i wouldn´t do it on higher boost levels, without adding fuel.
I was kind of surprised that you did it on the event enrita ,there are many things that could go wrong

Due to the concept of JB3 and V3 I can's see the issue, can you please elaborate ?

[enrita]

Originally Posted by per

Raising the boost on top of a tune! maybe ok to use a JB+ on stock boost .
i wouldn´t do it on higher boost levels, without adding fuel.
I was kind of surprised that you did it on the event enrita ,there are many things that could go wrong

I have done many BT logs on low boost levels before to make sure the car was running right without issues and raised slowly the boost till 1.5psi over Giac Stage 1 with more BT logs and email exchanges with Terry.. I didnt just put it on without testing it. Car was running flawlessy and very strong.

BigTom: dont know where you want to go with that but with BT logs and the right calculations i got with the JBplus 30 hp more than with GIAC stage 1 alone. Maybe you put a super procede map inbetween?

[Big Tom]

Originally Posted by enrita

BigTom: dont know where you want to go with that but with BT logs and the right calculations i got with the JBplus 30 hp more than with GIAC stage 1 alone.
Maybe you put a super procede map inbetween?

Nope.