[Belarus]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" Charles Caleb Colton

[k726]

In '05 my '06 525i had Bluetooth as an option. A year later Mercedes released a Bluetooth interface in their cars. I now will never buy a Mercedes again because they copied BMW and now BMW is losing their market to Mercedes tele-fanatics. Guess I have to sell the S65, C63, CLS55, and E550. A company stands by their products based on the reliability and high standards they hold, not because they have something someone else doesn't (which is now impossible).

The point of that was technology that at one point is specific to one company or manufacture becomes the standard eventually for the rest. Oh and as history has it, the people who learn and adopt this "new" technology, usually do it stronger and better than the original design.

This has been going on since the beginning of time, no one should be discrediting anyone as to who did it first, or that they didn't do it good enough. Everyone here is looking for performance and facts.

-Adrian

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by k726

Oh and as history has it, the people who learn and adopt this "new" technology, usually do it stronger and better than the original design.

... and cheaper.

[k726]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

... and cheaper.

[StartupJunkie]

I'm trying to understand the dollar/cost comparisons. There is no better return for your money than getting a tune (whatever brand).

When I see how much people spent on the various exhausts, wheels ... and people are ready to cut each other's throats for a few hundred bucks on a tune. Come on, really?

Exhaust without a tune - the performance gain is nothing to write home about
Downpipe without a tune - same deal here
Intercooler without a tune - waste ...

I guess you get my point.

Though I'm interested in seeing the details of how this story unfolds. There seems to be some good guesses based on historical information.

Junk

[Sparky66]

Originally Posted by rmdvrs

What I love the most is whenever there is a procede thread about the next upcoming thing its all great news, awesome and can't wait threads and when its something about JB every procede fan boy comes out of the woodwork that probably has never even met shiv acting like they spend all weekend with him stroking his d... and licking his n... talking about the shortcomings or reasons why JB is an imitator rather than an innovator.

BMS nor Terry has ever bashed any feature of procede on here and if you have been around long enough you would know that cause Terry does not post on the forum. Now Mike has made comments but none have been bashing. They have only been factual opinions on why CAN integration may or may not be useful or beneficial.

Mike does not represent Terry or his beliefs. He is just a person with his own opinions and a BMS retailer. Just cause he knows more than others doesn't mean he speaks for Terry.

Keyword is "On Here". Go to Terry's site: N54etech forum. Every new upgrade on the Procede's tune implementation and innovation that is introduced by Shiv/Adrian is bashed openly. I guess when one first criticises and then copies another tuners ideas, it has to come to question, just how openly honest about his opinions has he been to his ever faithfull brethren.

One innovates............the other blatantly and unashamedly copies.

It's all good because we all win, but let's not blur or make fuzzy this line.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Sigh why is my thread now a referendum on who prefers what tune? Believe me JB3 owners will appreciate the features coming out and I think others will take notice as well. If you used to use the JB3 and weren't happy with this or that for whatever reason why wouldn't you be thrilled to see those changes being made? I just don't see the need
for all the soap-boxing here.

Mike

[doctor_vino]

Tough shit... the world is a nasty place



Terry/Shiv.....keep at it! what would be even sicker is like a JB-CEDE

It doesn't really matter WHO develops the tune, or HOW they developed the tune.......but the way i see it, the BEST tune for MY TASTES get my $$$$....at one point certain features on a tune will inevitably become mandatory to move forward and perhaps thats what CAN represents for the N54.....

i think its about time the mods stepped in and cleaned up some of these posts that don't pertain to the actual OP (as well as this post).

[onefastman]

+1 and +1000000000000

[apkraven]

i personally chose jb3 and would love to have any additional upgrade features.
sometimes i bash on the items people want to order via my webshop. but if they like it - why not .
i made my personal choice on the way they communicate. vishnu didn't reply at all. Terry was all kind and communicative.

[Clap135]

Jpslick has this topic under control. He ran a jb3 for the longest time and I called it shit since day one. He finally saw the light and now is sharing his unbaised opionion so those with common sense might want to listen. I simple don't have the time or care to post eleborate posts about why this teaser is a joke.

[WOPALX]

Mike,

Will the new hardware now influence timing rather than relying on the ecu's knock sensor to do it ?

In the past JB3 has not had any influence ( by cps offset or otherwise) and claimed by T as not necessary, so I'm interested to see if this has changed.

Cheers,

S

[edo]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Every new upgrade on the Procede's tune implementation and innovation that is introduced by Shiv/Adrian is bashed openly. I guess when one first criticises and then copies another tuners ideas, it has to come to question, just how openly honest about his opinions has he been to his ever faithfull brethren.

+1
I'm glad for all N54 community that major tuners are constantly improving their tunes.
I am not a hater, I read a lot and write little, but I decided to share my thoughts here. What I find really weird and "not normal" is the fact that all the features that were implemented by Vishnu were called rubbish, irrelevant or something like that by BMS. But almost every single feature was implemented in JB later on. Weird. Just sayin'...

I'm not trying to say that one tune is better than the other (everyone decides what's best for him), but this fact (and it is a fact) brings some questions. About honesty, professionalism, business ethics, etc.

[themyst]

jpslick do I qualify to comment? I owned both too!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Keyword is "On Here". Go to Terry's site: N54etech forum. Every new upgrade on the Procede's tune implementation and innovation that is introduced by Shiv/Adrian is bashed openly. I guess when one first criticises and then copies another tuners ideas, it has to come to question, just how openly honest about his opinions has he been to his ever faithfull brethren.

One innovates............the other blatantly and unashamedly copies.

It's all good because we all win, but let's not blur or make fuzzy this line.

You guys like to say that but it's untrue. Features have been refered to as over-hyped and historically people can be the judge on that but that doesn't amount to bashing. And features have been adopted after the fact from both sides. Anyway I guess soon it will be your turn to call new things over-hyped for awhile.

But you make a good point.. At the end of the day the reality is that this is a very competitive business and everybody involved is working hard at improving their tech and the end user wins both at a price point and a feature list. With the introduction of the N55 this will continue so it should be an interesting year for sure.

Mike

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by rmdvrs

Jeez, alot of you guys sound like apple, steve jobs, jesus phone loving fan boys. Like the one and only great iphone created everything and nothing else comes close and everything else is just imitated.

Things get created, then things get altered, repackaged or advanced. Its how technology has worked and will always work.

What I love the most is whenever there is a procede thread about the next upcoming thing its all great news, awesome and can't wait threads and when its something about JB every procede fan boy comes out of the woodwork that probably has never even met shiv acting like they spend all weekend with him stroking his d... and licking his n... talking about the shortcomings or reasons why JB is an imitator rather than an innovator.

BMS nor Terry has ever bashed any feature of procede on here and if you have been around long enough you would know that cause Terry does not post on the forum. Now Mike has made comments but none have been bashing. They have only been factual opinions on why CAN integration may or may not be useful or beneficial.

Mike does not represent Terry or his beliefs. He is just a person with his own opinions and a BMS retailer. Just cause he knows more than others doesn't mean he speaks for Terry.

lol...you must have pubic hair on your teeth from all that you have been doing!!!

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by themyst

jpslick do I qualify to comment? I owned both too!

I dont own this website, I'm just tired of people coming in here with no experience in real tuning or actual comparisons of all products and claiming they "love" their tune because they are A) on a bandwagon B) They only like what they own so it MUST be the best C) Read too much into marketing tactics and "customer service"


Those 3 types of people, clutter this forum with useless opinions. USELESS!

You like Terry cause he answers your emails, COOL!

You like Shiv cause he has some innovative stuff that comes out before other tunes, COOL!

Fill us in when that bologna is relevant to the tuning, control, and drivability of the car.

I've yet to see a topic of discussion outside of the tuners themselves that explain how boost is controlled, how ignition is controlled and air/fuel controlled. Moreover, their limitations, and their flaws in both tunes.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by WOPALX

Mike,

Will the new hardware now influence timing rather than relying on the ecu's knock sensor to do it ?

In the past JB3 has not had any influence ( by cps offset or otherwise) and claimed by T as not necessary, so I'm interested to see if this has changed.

Cheers,

S

You mean an advance limiter/CPS offset? As I've said in the past it is not necessary and the majority of you running an advance limiter are constantly bumping up against the knock threshold regardless. But remember this board is being designed for more than one application and for those looking for more advanced feature sets. That is one feature that will be included as far as my notes from my conversation with T show.

Mike

[jippii ensio]

If this is a leap forward beyond the existing piggybacks, does it mean that it is more $ than Procede?
The piggybacks in the market can adjust just a few sensor inputs, have you figured how to have more control?

[Alan l.]

Holy crap i've never seen any forum that b1tch this much about any tune as e90post. I really hope some of you guys are getting paychecks from these tuners because of all the time wasted defending them

Guys...competition is good for everyone. Helps push the envelope and it also drives prices down for people like us who have to pay the "BMW Tax". Could you imagine how much the Procede would cost if the JB3 wasn't around?

Alan

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Holy crap i've never seen any forum that b1tch this much about any tune as e90post. I really hope some of you guys are getting paychecks from these tuners because of all the time wasted defending them

Guys...competition is good for everyone. Helps push the envelope and it also drives prices down for people like us who have to pay the "BMW Tax". Could you imagine how much the Procede would cost if the JB3 wasn't around?

Alan

Yes.. 1495.00

Mike

[rmdvrs]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Keyword is "On Here". Go to Terry's site: N54etech forum. Every new upgrade on the Procede's tune implementation and innovation that is introduced by Shiv/Adrian is bashed openly. I guess when one first criticises and then copies another tuners ideas, it has to come to question, just how openly honest about his opinions has he been to his ever faithfull brethren.

One innovates............the other blatantly and unashamedly copies.

It's all good because we all win, but let's not blur or make fuzzy this line.

How honest? To his ever faithful bretheren? Cmon are you serious. Neither company can say that one truly innovates while the other completely copies and if you have been around long enough you would know that. There were things on the JB3 that when it was first coming out that procede did not have and was bashing. For example, having no need to drill holes for a power supply so let's not blur the line but let's not be oblivious to it.

Now honest and ethical is where I find Terry lives, innovates and sets the bar because if you have ever dealt with him you will no this is true. As far as shiv I will not comment. Not because I don't believe the same of him rather because I don't have the same experience or knowledge I do of his practices like I do Terry's. I only make claims and decisions, especially about people on tangible knowledge otherwise it's just called bashing.

I remember a time when threads like these were exciting and informational about whats on the horizon. In fact it was a thread like this that helped me decide on which tune I got but now these types of threads have turned into bickering about opinions and whats better and who sucks.

So lets keep the opinions out of this thread and talk about the facts. If you have questions for Mike about what may be coming then feel free to ask otherwise stay out of the discussion.

I know the features that will be coming and would love to share but I'd rather Mike do it cause it's more fun being out there testing them to get ready for all the JB owners rather than on here bickering about who's who and whats better.