[mylydiamy]

{Redacted}

Thanks man

I really don't think that she is having an affair.

She also doesn't have guts to get physical with me.

Our house is almost paid off. It is going to be 50/50 and there is nothing I can do about it.

Her car (2009 Accord) is on her name and paid off.

My cars (2008 335i e93 and 2006 Explorer) are paid off.

No other depth.

I have my checking account, she has hers. Our pay checks go to our own accounts.

Other than that, her assets (cache + 401K) are more than my assets (cache + 401K) that are not hidden.

I am not sure making her life miserable would help me at all since I probably paying for my lawyer and her lawyer (she is legally entitled to demand that I would pay for her lawyer since she can not afford)

At this point my only hope is she would accept my offer without talking to a lawyer : 2000K a month forever, or $100,000-150,000 one time cache payment). But I still have to give her child support. There is no way to get around it. If she turns down my offer, I can only hope that she remarries soon after the divorce.

[ES_TRADER]

Originally Posted by M3Bahn

Well... the other side of it is that if you don't stand up for yourself they will lose interest in you and think you are a wimp. I think you have to very carefully choose your battles.

A very valid point here...and i completely agree...but the key words are "VERY carefully"

[Space Ghost]

PM me her number.

[carve]

This is such BS...adult support. She isn't retarded- let her support herself. The only thing I could understand is splitting up assets including retirement assets, but not paying her money you're making. What ever happened to equal rights?

[V1.47fan]

Exhibit A:

Originally Posted by mylydiamy

Any volunteer to do it for me??

[M3Bahn]

Originally Posted by richpuer

A very valid point here...and i completely agree...but the key words are "VERY carefully"

I think the occasional argument is fine, clears the air and could even lead to make-up sex but the real relationship killer is constant bickering.

[ES_TRADER]

{Redacted}

this is true, my dad went thru a divorce that spanned over 13 years and had to pay for HER lawyer the whole time...its fucking ridiculous...so yea, in a nutshell, u pay someone to basically screw you over and its the law..WTF kinda justice is that??

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by Wakka

As my dad always says....

'Baby I love you but... sign here'

talking about a prenup.

He's the Man,that's a great advice. That way you know that you're not her meal ticket.

[Oregano123]

Someone cite the law that says spouses must pay for the divorce lawyer of the other spouse.

[adobeee]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I think a lot of it has to do with the mind set of our times.
Me Me Me.
A friend told me a little one liner..
Women are like monkeys. They don't let go of one branch until another one is within reach. I thought about it for a second and found it to be pretty much fact from past relationships.

My folks married in their early twenties and I have never heard them yell or fight once. I'm sure they have their episodes when alone but I just think people these days are much different than older generations. Those statistics would be interesting to see.

And monkeys can use their tails to get what they want!!

Best of luck bro. I'm only 23, but this thread has allowed me to stop for a moment and think things through.

[ScotchAndCigar]

{Redacted}

My wife divorced her first husband without him being present. He thought that if he doesn't show, they couldn't adjudicate, but as long as you get served with papers, it's upon you to be there. Otherwise, no one would show up for anything just to get out of sentencing.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by NYCGP

I'm sorry... does that make it any less important? If they are insulted then you should probably move on... however hard that may be to understand.

Whoever I end up marrying will be signing a pre-nup. Their life will be great and if we were to get a divorce they would be well taken care of. Pre-nups have this bad rep that make women think we are trying to cheat on them during our marriage and leave them with nothing. When in actuality a pre-nup simply maps out what would happen in the event of a divorce.

It is like not making a will because no body wants to think about dying.

The bad part woman do not like since it is usually the guy asking them to sign and they get nothing if they step out on the guy or do something which they probably should not do, like bad mouth the guy.

Most well written one say the women will get certain thing as long as she keeps her mouth shut and never cheated during the marriage. This is when it get nasty since the women then tries to get the pre-nup tossed since she did not keep her side of the deal.

[mylydiamy]

This is what my lawyer said to me:

"Don't try to make sence of the laws, just accept them. They are what they are, you can't change them. Othewise you would either go insane or do something stupid which would ruin your life."

And he is rigth. All these things mention in this thread don't make any sence but that is the reality

[Zephyr15]

Originally Posted by bmwhype

Someone cite the law that says spouses must pay for the divorce lawyer of the other spouse.

"Must" is not the correct word, "may have to" is more accurate. These types of things all come down to the Judge and the skill of the attorneys/experts.

The relevant New Jersey Court Rule appears to be 5:3-5(c):

(c) Award of Attorney Fees. Subject to the provisions of R. 4:42-9(b), (c), and (d), the court in its discretion may make an allowance, both pendente lite and on final determination, to be paid by any party to the action, including, if deemed to be just, any party successful in the action, on any claim for divorce, nullity, support, alimony, custody, parenting time, equitable distribution, separate maintenance, enforcement of interspousal agreements relating to family type matters and claims relating to family type matters in actions between unmarried persons. A pendente lite allowance may include a fee based on an evaluation of prospective services likely to be performed and the respective financial circumstances of the parties. The court may also, on good cause shown, direct the parties to sell, mortgage, or otherwise encumber or pledge marital assets to the extent the court deems necessary to permit both parties to fund the litigation. In determining the amount of the fee award, the court should consider, in addition to the information required to be submitted pursuant to R. 4:42-9, the following factors: (1) the financial circumstances of the parties; (2) the ability of the parties to pay their own fees or to contribute to the fees of the other party; (3) the reasonableness and good faith of the positions advanced by the parties both during and prior to trial; (4) the extent of the fees incurred by both parties; (5) any fees previously awarded; (6) the amount of fees previously paid to counsel by each party; (7) the results obtained: (8) the degree to which fees were incurred to enforce existing orders or to compel discovery; and (9) any other factor bearing on the fairness of an award.

Here is a link to a 2011 case where the New Jersey Appellate Division denied a guy's appeal from a trial court order requiring him to pay $125k in legal fees.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by richpuer

this is true, my dad went thru a divorce that spanned over 13 years and had to pay for HER lawyer the whole time...its fucking ridiculous...so yea, in a nutshell, u pay someone to basically screw you over and its the law..WTF kinda justice is that??

This is the problem lawyers cause. When a lawyer for the woman is paid for by the husband her lawyer has no vested interested in getting it settled quickly. The husband just became the wife's lawyers sugar daddy.

In really if you can do it without lawyers both parties will be much better off. Lawyers have no vested interested other than getting a pay check. They could care less if either parties get what they want, they actually like it when both side can not agree then the lawyer gets more billable hours trying to get some agreement. And when they do agree i seen where they tell their clients they should not agree.

A friend of mine wanted to settle his divorce without lawyers, they were only married 2 or 3 yrs at the time, he had started a business a few years prior to getting married so it was debt ridden still. She quit he job to work for the business. So he told her he would continue paying on her car and insurance and would pay her so much a month until she found her own place and got back on her feet with a job. Well the wife listen to her sister and got lawyer since the sister told her she deserved a lot more.

Well the lawyer ended up dragging it out for almost a yr and in the end the Judge award the wife nothings since the business was in the hole and she was not willing to assume half the debt and because the lawyer racked up billable hours in excess of $10K and the wife was able to work the judge said she deserved nothings since he did not bring anything to the marriage and quit her job on her own.

My friend felt bad for her and told her lawyer in court he was an idiot and cost his wife more than the $10k he billed him. He suggested to the lawyer that he refund his wife the $10k since he failed to do his job. He then turned around and told the court he would still make her car payments and insurance until it was paid off. My friend represented himself since he did not have enough money to pay for her lawyer and one for him.

The interesting part of this, her lawyer wanted the court to award her half the business and she deserved some % of its income for a period of time since she worked there for 2 yrs without pay. Well the judge said fine but she had to assume half of the $150K in debt the business had since the business was worthless otherwise. The assets were not worth more than what was owned at that point and billable receipts were barely cover the debt service.

My friend also called the sister and told her she was also an idiot and her stupid advise of getting a lawyer because my friend was trying to rip her off caused his wife to get less than than what he was willing to give her upfront.

To the op, if both of you can be reasonable and can decide on what is fair you do not need lawyers. As people pointed out most States have guideline on how things should be split, if you follow those and the court see no real issue you can simple be done with it and each can go their own way.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by mylydiamy

This is what my lawyer said to me:

"Don't try to make sence of the laws, just accept them. They are what they are, you can't change them. Othewise you would either go insane or do something stupid which would ruin your life."

And he is rigth. All these things mention in this thread don't make any sence but that is the reality

Yep that is true, a good friend on mine who is a lawyer once told me that Laws are a Job Program for Lawyer that is all, they are design so it does not make sense to the average person, if they did make sense then you would not need a lawyer.

[ABQ325i]

Maestro is right.

You take your chances in court but the bottom line is that the lawyers always win.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by adobeee

And monkeys can use their tails to get what they want!!

Best of luck bro. I'm only 23, but this thread has allowed me to stop for a moment and think things through.

Being a young'n you will eventually realize monkeys like to hurl feces too.

[Watwood]

This thread has taught me a shit ton today.

[ideliver]

The reason divorce is so expensive....it's worth it

[Oregano123]

Originally Posted by ideliver

The reason divorce is so expensive....it's worth it

arent you a married obgyn

[Bobble]

To clarify a couple points raised in here all based on Cali family law which I became an internet expert on 8 years ago:

Yes if a women makes more money she can be ordered to pay alimony, my sister did shes a Doc her ex was a surf bum(nice guy though) and a friend has to (she's an IT consultant like me her ex is a pastor go figure).

If you lose your job and you must prove it was not deliberate, you can petition to have your payments lowered but likewise she can petition to have them raised at a later date. Moving to an area that pays less does not matter that was your choice not the courts or ut of your control.

ideliver brough up a good point, has she sought counsel at this point yet? If the laws in NJ are like Cali a lawyer cannot represent her if he has already had a consult with you and vice versa. You could effectively cause her to seek a less qualified lawyer if you consult with all the "movers and shakers" in your area.

And yes you could be held financially responsible for her court fees.

I would caution on one point someone made about moving away and accepting the courts decisions. My kids suffered greatly at the thought their mother bascially up'd and moved out on them, in fact she did so on our son's 13 birthday weekend to boot. They hold deep resentments towards her as a result, they were 13 and 17 at the time. Our daughter is getting married in 16 days and her mom's role in the wedding is minimal at best and she is hurt over it but our daughter told her she did not have any remorse moving out on them and since all her difficult years came on my watch and dime she had chosen to have the ceremony with my self and my long term girl friend(6+ years) as the family focal point. I'm sure that stung and I feel bad for her but in your case carefully weigh what may come up at a later time in you and your daughters life.

Honestly see what can be done legally to reduce the estimate, it can be based on the earnings she should be qualified to make in Cali. Oh and the mediation point, I looked into that as well but what turned me away was they will suggest you both retain counsel and have them review the agreement so in affect you could still get the greedy motive to set in, just imagine in you agree on let's say 2k/month forever and the attorney tells her why the court will give you 3.5K and you can stick him with the costs what do you think the decision will be.

Hang in there, life does exist after divorce. Hell I had to write a check for
426K as her half of the community property and yes I'm still hurting financially compared to before, economic downturn did not help, but I am happier now then in the last 15 years and share my life with a wonderful person who pulls her own weight and is always there no matter what.