[fishmando]

Originally Posted by SharkBait

This is a poser car. Why bother with all the serious track use add-ons like cage, seats, LSD, solid bushings, etc. and then wreck the handling with a gimmicky suspension and ridiculous tires? Not to mention the anvil of weight in the trunk. I drove an air ride car on the track once. It was a joke.

What kind of car did you drive with air suspension on it? Was it a four-valve or eight-valve setup? What brand of air suspension was on the car? Was it aligned? Was it corner balanced? Were the swaybars still in-tact?

As far as the anchor in my trunk, its only 33lbs, nothing too major.

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by PINeely

Whenever I see slammed builds like this one all I can think of is how much I hate the local roads. Not even the ricers drop their cars in Jackson.

Back when this car was on coilovers, I used to dread driving on our local roads (apart from the highway). Now that it's fully adjustable, it's pretty comfortable even over the bumps and imperfections in our roads.

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

I am interested in this suspension for the opposite reason. I dont want to lower my car, I want to raise it. Like the "four corner" suspension of the older Touareg or Cayenne. I have a "sport suspension" and I think an adjustable suspension would be better for snow and chains situations. If I could raise it on rough roads or for speed bumps that are too high, that would be useful.

But the car has a nice ride as it is. I find it hard to believe that this air suspension, used at a normal level, presumably the same as my sport suspension, would provide the same quality ride that the OEM suspension does.

But when my current suspension wears out, I will definately look into air.

Thanks for the post. We all can learn from your work, even if we dont use your work for "stance".

I've actually worked with several guys who wanted to do the exact same thing. They wanted to drive around at stock height but have the extra lift available when they needed it.

The Bag Riders system that was built for this car will NOT be as comfortable as the OEM suspension. In my opinion the OEM setup is extremely hard to beat when it comes to ride quality and comfort. My setup rides like a nice set of coilovers, nice and firm, but not to the point of being bouncy over bumps or knocking your fillings out.

Plenty of people will claim they are on coilovers that ride 'just like stock' but we all know this is a bit of an exaggeration.

[khodo]

ugly and retarded...wtf

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

I see, very cool. So the air adjustment has a set bandwidth/zone it occupies, but you can determine where the center of this zone is when it is installed by choosing the perch.

Correct, what you do is thread the lower mount upward (this makes the overall strut length shorter from bottom mount to top mount) which will move the 'range' or 'zone' of adjustment allowed by the air spring to allow you to operate at a lower than stock height. From there you typically have 2.5" of range in either direction, 2.5" of lift for speed bumps and 2.5" of drop when you want to show off. The opposite can be done as well, the range can be moved 'upward' to allow you to drive around with additional ground clearance. The key is, you need to operate the vehicle at one specific height that you save on your controller. This is the height that you set the vehicle to when you're on the alignment rack.

[fishmando]

Here's what the front air struts look like:


IMG_2191 by fishmando2, on Flickr

Fully threaded bodies, double bellow air spring, 30-click damping adjustment, 5 inches of travel.

[famsedan]

Now that's what's up

[vashthe3rd]

The stance fad is stupid no matter how much money you throw at it. Sad to see a good car be made into such a pointless machine.

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by vashthe3rd

The stance fad is stupid no matter how much money you throw at it. Sad to see a good car be made into such a pointless machine.

Perhaps you're just jealous that our car is faster than your car?

[SharkBait]

Originally Posted by fishmando

Perhaps you're just jealous that our car is faster than your car?

On a road course? With turns? No. Sorry. Take two cars, same everything except for suspension and wheels/tires. A stock car would be faster. Not only are you dragging 33lbs of weight plus extra weight at each corner, you're riding on air bladders, your sidewalls are over stretched, your wheels are unnecessarily wide which adds unsprung weight, and your suspension geometry is jacked! Plus, you'll likely get your camber settings wrong. Most people with adjustable suspensions don't have a clue how to set them up properly.

I am not against what you're doing. By all means, go for it. You have some nice performance upgrades on that car. But let's be clear. An air ride suspension with stretched tires is not a performance upgrade. It is a cosmetic upgrade that adversely impacts performance.

[Goettler_Boost]

It's like people think that you can't switch wheels/tires ever. Like Bag Riders had to sell the OEM take offs to afford these wheels. Haha

[kiwi29]

Looks sick and sexyyyy! I think 19s or 20s would be better. The 18s being that low looks a bit too small imo. How much did the seats and roll bar cost you?

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by SharkBait

On a road course? With turns? No. Sorry. Take two cars, same everything except for suspension and wheels/tires. A stock car would be faster. Not only are you dragging 33lbs of weight plus extra weight at each corner, you're riding on air bladders, your sidewalls are over stretched, your wheels are unnecessarily wide which adds unsprung weight, and your suspension geometry is jacked! Plus, you'll likely get your camber settings wrong.

I am not against what you're doing. By all means, go for it. You have some nice performance upgrades on that car. But let's be clear. An air ride suspension with stretched tires is not a performance upgrade. It is a cosmetic upgrade that adversely impacts performance.

I know we won't agree on everything, but let's be clear. Stretched tires ARE NOT a performance upgrade, and I never said there was any benefit to running them. In fact, here's a quote from page 1 of this thread:

Originally Posted by fishmando

The new setup is going to have some nice meaty tires (soft compound too), on a different set of wheels.

Having improper camber settings will slow you down around a track and may reduce traction, no one is going to argue against that. Our car will be setup up properly for street use and the suspension will be dialed in, in terms of corner balancing, camber, caster and toe. Having a properly balanced car (even though it's just a street car) is HUGE in my book.

You say our car has extra weight at each corner. This is not the case, our struts are lighter than stock, and so is our rear air spring and shock

OEM:

IMG_2210 by fishmando2, on Flickr

Bag Riders:

IMG_2208 by fishmando2, on Flickr

My wider-than-stock forged BBS wheels (not pictured in this thread) are very similar in weight to the most popular brand of wheels here on e90 post, I agree less unsprung weight is a BIG factor, but running wide rear tire for this project very important to us.

VMR Wheels:


Screen Shot 2013-03-12 at 2.01.42 PM by fishmando2, on Flickr

Most people with adjustable suspensions don't have a clue how to set them up properly.

I whole-heartedly agree with this statement, In fact I couldn't agree more. But I'm not the just your average joe. Most people don't have a corner balancing setup sitting in their garage.


Lastly, you mentioned the suspension geometry being off. Sure, it was off in the photos posted in this thread with the car lowered all the way, you're right. But at it's automatic preset height that the vehicle is now aligned at, the geometry is in spec with the OEM BMW Performance e92 suspension kit that our dealer offers. (Arguably, the OEM Performance suspension is slightly lower than ideal geometry, but it's for a street car after all).

I'm not here to argue, but I DO want to defend a few points about our project.

[AndreyT]

Originally Posted by fishmando

Perhaps you're just jealous that our car is faster than your car?

Faster? In the "fastness" department this car will rank in the same class as all-stock Toyota Corolla from the mid-90's. Your performance-improving upgrades will not be able to fully compensate for the performance-destroying cosmetic modifications you did to this car. Stop trying to delude yourself: what you did, you did for cosmetic purposes, completely sacrificing the performance in the process.

I mean, it is your car, you can do whatever you want with it. But there's no need to try to deceive some starry-eyed newbies here into believing that this has anything to do with improving the car's performance.

P.S. But I can't help asking: do you really think it looks good? I mean, these wheels alone belong on a Buick.

[alexdc2t]

Im loving the status seats!

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by alexdc2t

Im loving the status seats!

Thanks !

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by AndreyT

Faster? In the "fastness" department this car will rank in the same class as all-stock Toyota Corolla from the mid-90's.

Because an all-stock Corlolla makes 500 whp... when?

[AndreyT]

Originally Posted by fishmando

Because an all-stock Corlolla makes 500 whp... when?

Whp? This thing makes a lot more

[melenkae90]

I personally like seeing people do different things to there car. Keeps it interesting not just the same old shit. Keep up the good work can't wait to see this thing done!!

[threethirtyfive]

Looking good man!

As usual you will have loads of people chiming in that have NEVER owned nor driven a car with air ride. We aren't talking air cylinders and 1/2" valves here. This is a fully height adjusted system, set your camber and set your height and done. It has a memory and level sensors.

I can't speak for the OP but this is clearly a show car, which I think some are missing and he is doing an iffy job of describing. Sure your car may be faster on a track but as obvious this car is not going to get a tune and an intake and be done. This car WONT be slow, same exact car setup differently may shave some time here but that is clearly not the goal.

What are you arguing about? I went through this four years ago when I built my bagged R32. I don't track my car and never felt "out of control" with my air ride. If you are going to be a dick and tell the OP how much you think he sucks then at least get some facts to back it up. You are the same guy who would be arguing in the track build that all those parts are a waste without great driving skills.

Argue away, I am going to enjoy the build.

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by AndreyT

Whp? This thing makes a lot more

touche

[fishmando]

Originally Posted by melenkae90

I personally like seeing people do different things to there car. Keeps it interesting not just the same old shit. Keep up the good work can't wait to see this thing done!!

Thanks