[ajsalida]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

The suspension is related to the driving style and traction rather than power. The highest G's are at breaking and cornering - not in accelerating.

The softer and higher the suspension, the better it works in the snow. Many Xis see snow. Power is the last factor to think when deciding on the suspension. Just go with your preferences. Some like it low, some like comfort, some like it very hard with RFTs and stiff springs and shocks.

The ski area that I live next to gets 465" of snow per year average. I get about 20 ft at my house. I live on a gravel road. Trust me, OEM Xi susp. does not do as well as the affordable aftermarket ones I mentioned above. Under any conditions.

Funny how much effort going into telling people not to upgrade their suspensions. I just find that odd esp given how poor the XI's is compared to other BMW OEM efforts. Maybe some of you ought to drive a car with just Konis/Eibachs or similar on it before you make these pronouncements. I agree you can wreck a cars handling if you don't know what you're doing but in this case the Xi's handling was wrecked by BMW first.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by ajsalida

The ski area that I live next to gets 465" of snow per year average. I get about 20 ft at my house. I live on a gravel road. Trust me, OEM Xi susp. does not do as well as the affordable aftermarket ones I mentioned above. Under any conditions.

Funny how much effort going into telling people not to upgrade their suspensions. I just find that odd esp given how poor the XI's is compared to other BMW OEM efforts. Maybe some of you ought to drive a car with just Konis/Eibachs or similar on it before you make these pronouncements. I agree you can wreck a cars handling if you don't know what you're doing but in this case the Xi's handling was wrecked by BMW first.

No one is saying not to upgrade the suspension. We are just saying that having 600+HP does not make it anymore necessary (or necessary at all) than having stock power.

[ajsalida]

Originally Posted by idspeedskater

And if I take it back to Idaho and drive around in the snow and randomly sanded springtime roads the learning curve coming from stock to upgraded suspension will be key

This discussion is getting a little surreal. No one (at least not me) is suggesting you change your suspension before you get used to the extra power. Just that once you do you might find a better suspension more appropriate to using it.

As far as learning curves go, if you do not already know how to drive fast you have no business strapping an ST kit on your car in the first place. Low traction softly sprung LOW POWER is the way to learn.

I learned to drive (on a race track at least) in a dead stock 91 Miata. Drove the wheels off that car for several years and many thousands of track miles before I touched anything on it (except brake pads and tires). Then moved to an SCCA ITB car (a BMW 2002) which is not known for great power either.

Anyway I know where you guys are coming from as far as a rookie advice goes but you are already way beyond rookie if you are pushing power to where the ST kit takes it. At some point soon you will want a better susp than the OEM Xi. Not slammed or $5k worth of coilovers, or too stiff to ride in for more than 5 miles, just better. At everything.

[ajsalida]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

No one is saying not to upgrade the suspension. We are just saying that having 600+HP does not make it anymore necessary (or necessary at all) than having stock power.

OK fair enough. Maybe "desirable" is a better word, when you get used to the extra power.

edit: and this is just because the OEM Xi susp is particularly unsuited to performance driving, IMHO.

[Fully_Bolted]

I would just like to point out that Shiv also said that a 6AT upgrade wasn't necessary either

*awaits ban hammer*

[ragingpanda]

Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted

I would just like to point out that Shiv also said that a 6AT upgrade wasn't necessary either

*awaits ban hammer*

I would like to point out that Shiv also said that his lpfp upgrade would be available for a reasonable cost.

[CaptainInsano]

Everyone is responsible for their own mod choices. If he wants to run around on the stock suspension let him. It's his car.

[idspeedskater]

Originally Posted by ajsalida

This discussion is getting a little surreal. No one (at least not me) is suggesting you change your suspension before you get used to the extra power. Just that once you do you might find a better suspension more appropriate to using it.

As far as learning curves go, if you do not already know how to drive fast you have no business strapping an ST kit on your car in the first place. Low traction softly sprung LOW POWER is the way to learn.

I learned to drive (on a race track at least) in a dead stock 91 Miata. Drove the wheels off that car for several years and many thousands of track miles before I touched anything on it (except brake pads and tires). Then moved to an SCCA ITB car (a BMW 2002) which is not known for great power either.

Anyway I know where you guys are coming from as far as a rookie advice goes but you are already way beyond rookie if you are pushing power to where the ST kit takes it. At some point soon you will want a better susp than the OEM Xi. Not slammed or $5k worth of coilovers, or too stiff to ride in for more than 5 miles, just better. At everything.

The learning curve I'm talking about for myself is more the car itself as i transform it. Yes, if you don't have decent experience you shouldn't bolt on an ST and go hog wild. The 91 miata sounds better than my 92 Tercel, but it got around a track.

Flying home soon and should have some preliminary results to add to the discussion in a few days.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted

I would just like to point out that Shiv also said that a 6AT upgrade wasn't necessary either

*awaits ban hammer*

It's not. As our 6at single turbo customers will tell you. But if you want to do back to back 1/2 mile runs and get the trans hot, you will likely see rough shifting and a 4-5-4 mis-shift. Luckily that only happens at 125+mph and during heavy racing conditions. Under these conditions, a transmission oil cooler would be a good investment.

[pits200]

I simply said, "Be careful". Not sure when my words got twisted into some people thinking I said a coilover kit is "REQUIRED" for high horsepower.

Not sure it can be argued that an aftermarket coil kit would help with the bucking that we saw in the test video with higher spring rates and stiffer dampening.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

How about everyone just let the guy get to the dragstrip and see how it does? Sounds like a novel idea to me.

On another note I do not think I've ever seen another platform be so demanding from a person who gives them what they want, more power. People: put down your newfound power however you choose, mod the car however you like, do whatever floats your boat. If it breaks: fix it, improve it, whatever you wish. This is what modding is all about, it is everywhere across the modding universe, this is nothing new.

[tahoerdr]

Not an argument: Any XI drivers that have read the suspension related threads are well aware of the (claimed) benefits of upgraded suspension and often mention it as their favorite upgrade. Is the stock suspension adequate? I'm not qualified to chime in, but I like to think people take a more balanced approach to upgrades. To each his own though. If Harold at HP can just get 4 more people to jump on board, my AST 4150 kit may actually arrive this year. Any XI guys looking for a suspension upgrade, talk to Harold at HP Autowerks.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658034

[pits200]

Originally Posted by tahoerdr

Not an argument: Any XI drivers that have read the suspension related threads are well aware of the (claimed) benefits of upgraded suspension and often mention it as their favorite upgrade. Is the stock suspension adequate? I'm not qualified to chime in, but I like to think people take a more balanced approach to upgrades. To each his own though. If Harold at HP can just get 4 more people to jump on board, my AST 4150 kit may actually arrive this year. Any XI guys looking for a suspension upgrade, talk to Harold at HP Autowerks.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658034

Tahoe, a couple of us xi guys got into a group buy for the xi 4100s about 1.5 years ago. We had all 5 xi guys pay right around Thanksgiving and we didn't get our coils till almost April even thought it was suppose to be 6-8 weeks. The asts are awesome at the price point they hit, they're in between ohlins/jrzs on hte high end and the kws and other sub $2k coils.

Hope you can find a few other guys to go in with you but expect to count the production time in months and not weeks.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

It is funny how everyone tries to "up" the price of the turbo upgrade by adding suspension and other items. Honestly, I have driven stock twins, FBO twins plus meth, FBO twinds plus meth and nitrous, and single. I upgraded to coils before I did much of my other mods as that was my goal. Many people never upgrade. You should choose what best meets your goals. Vishnu is simply offering another upgrade for our car. More options on the table is good.

[turb0mik3]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

It is funny how everyone tries to "up" the price of the turbo upgrade by adding suspension and other items. Honestly, I have driven stock twins, FBO twins plus meth, FBO twinds plus meth and nitrous, and single. I upgraded to coils before I did much of my other mods as that was my goal. Many people never upgrade. You should choose what best meets your goals. Vishnu is simply offering another upgrade for our car. More options on the table is good.

6k suspension upgrade > 6k performance upgrades

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by turb0mike

6k suspension upgrade > 6k performance upgrades

The funny thing is a lot of guys run stock runflats with a tune. The stock tires on this car are a complete joke. That means we need to increase the cost of a tune by 1k to account for tire upgrades.

[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

The funny thing is a lot of guys run stock runflats with a tune. The stock tires on this car are a complete joke. That means we need to increase the cost of a tune by 1k to account for tire upgrades.

Better include the the extra gas.

[ajsalida]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

The funny thing is a lot of guys run stock runflats with a tune. The stock tires on this car are a complete joke. That means we need to increase the cost of a tune by 1k to account for tire upgrades.

Remember we're (me at least) talking about the XI here, not the I, and in that situation the XI susp is as bad for handling and general enjoyment as RFTs. And I am not saying you add this to the cost, just that you'd want to do a modest spring/shock upgrade eventually. And me personally would do that first before engine mods the Xi susp is so bad.

This is not as apparent if you live where all the roads are perfectly smooth. The XI will bottom out hard on the smallest imperfection, pitch and roll all over the place, making me wonder about all those half shafts and CV joints under 100% more power. With me owning/driving it that is.

The general discussion here I hope is how to make a complete car on which all parts are up to the task of reliably putting down the power a ST makes. That is not a statement about flaws of the kit, nor is it even the the tuner's responsibility, just basic sound vehicle engineering. This is why the susp brakes chassis bushings etc. on the M3 are different from those on the 328. Or the 911 Turbo S different from the base non S 911. GT500 Shelby vs base Mustang, Etc. fill in your favorite base car then AMG version or whatever.

But the car owner who does not acknowledge that to use ALL that extra power effectively might take some more coin, well that is delusional. Unless he just wants a big motor and relatively weaker susp/brakes/drivetrain. Which I would not want personally but then I know to add in roughly same cost as motor mods to bring rest of the car up to snuff. For MY peace of mind and intended uses.

edit: And, for the XI, the weakest point by far in the base car is the SUSPENSION.

[slo_335-e90]

sigh, if only I lived in California...I'd gladly be the guinea pig! Looks like it's time to make the switch

[joec500]

Originally Posted by turb0mike

6k suspension upgrade > 6k performance upgrades

Totally agree, in my situation I had the Flexfuel kit installed, and the power totally overwhelmed my drivetrain, caused wheelhop and destroyed my halfshaft.

Once I installed the diff lockdown and stiffer more track oriented TCkline suspension with proper alignment and camber plates, and an LSD, the car is soooo much easier to drive, because it's so much more responsive and predictable.

I finally feel the chassis can keep up with the power. So many guys here have tons of power, that out overwhelm their chassis, but to each their own I guess. I like turning

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by joec500

Totally agree, in my situation I had the Flexfuel kit installed, and the power totally overwhelmed my drivetrain, caused wheelhop and destroyed my halfshaft.

Once I installed the diff lockdown and stiffer more track oriented TCkline suspension with proper alignment and camber plates, and an LSD, the car is soooo much easier to drive, because it's so much more responsive and predictable.

I finally feel the chassis can keep up with the power. So many guys here have tons of power, that out overwhelm their chassis, but to each their own I guess. I like turning

Be careful about using logic in a place where emotion rules. Easy way to run a 600whp engine on a stock suspension is to place a bock under the throttle pedal at 1/3 – 1/2 throttle, no harm, no foul + 600whp bragging rights.

Two things come to mind with the whole suspension issue. Its in the Vendors financial self interest to minimize the overall cost for a truly functional 600whp car & some people are all about lifting their hoods at a local meet, or points on a fan site so anything past an turbo install might not be important to them.

[jippii ensio]

Looks like everyone agrees on xi stock suspension not being the best one. Upgrading the suspension makes sense for those who value better suspension. However, why don't you guys take it to the correct subforum from now on.