[TK-421]

Yes.

The Z4M was the last true BMW.

[i dunno]

bmw may not be focused on pure sports cars, but it's known for putting driver engagement as the top priority when it designed its cars. that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. bmw seems more focused on comfort and technology now. i drove an f30 as a loaner, and i couldn't believe how different it felt from the previous gen. the drivetrain was powerful, but the ride felt softer, and the steering was accurate but lacked road feedback and weight build up. it made me feel less confident as a driver. i don't think the f30 even feels like a bmw anymore. it's a much bigger gap compared to the switch from the e46 to the e9x. i concede that european eps is still young and will probably improve with time, but bmw and the majority of its buyers dont seem concerned with the driving experience. what was it? like 80% of 1 series owners think their car is fwd?

even in terms of quality, bmw seems to be slipping. the vinyl wrap on my door trim is peeling and the plastic underneath is no better than a sub $15k car. i'm not too angry about it because i bought my car mainly on how it drove, but it makes me wonder how large bmw profit margins must be. in the f30, the interior definitely looks better but there's no more retractable cup holders or push to open storage compartments. it sounds like something stupid to complain about but the car just seems less special now. it pretty much felt like a downgrade even though its a new generation.

chris harris speaks the truth. have a listen

[davesaddiction]

From last R&T, '12 vs. '08 328i:

"Our decision was unanimous: we liked the old car better, if only by a slight margin."

"...for driving enthusiasts, the E90 remains the benchmark."

[MPowerZ32]

I hope BMW people are looking at this thread. Enthusiasts are a small group but a very vocal one. We can often sway our friends (potential buyers) towards or away from certain cars.

I'm not very impressed by BMW's recent decision to stop building true bespoke engines for M cars. The next M3/4 will have a version of N54/55? And much hyped 1M has only an N54 engine.

And the M Performance line. Don't get me started! Splat M logos all over the body panels of non-M cars, so unsuspecting buyers think they are getting into an M. The 4 series coupe M sport package has an M logo on the fender like the Z4M??

Copying Audi's strategy to cover every single niche, actually not just existing niche, but by making up niches like the 5 and 3 series GT?? Who will buy those? I live in OC where there is as many BMWs as camrys. But I've seriously only seen the 5GT 3 times since its introduction. That should tell you how many units they are moving.

Bring the damn 3 series wagons in 335 trim! And the 1 series hatchback. If BMW is copying Audi's strategy, then copy it properly. Bring something to compete with the A3 hatchback.

Sorry for the rant. I have much more but this is good for now. Seriously, BMW, read this thread!!!

[keepittrill]

Dear BMW,

If you are making money and getting bitches, continue to do what you are doing. Judging by your 2013 sales, you're doing swell. Keep it trill!

Love,
Keepittrill

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by MPowerZ32

I'm not very impressed by BMW's recent decision to stop building true bespoke engines for M cars.

To anyone who doesn't believe it's the end of an era, see above.

[misterbeemer]

BMW has gone crazy and personally for me it has lost it's appeal as an ultimate driving machine. The new 3 series is terrible, F30 and F32 both. Cheaper interiors, cost cutting everywhere, bland designs and practically no fun to drive (I suspect this will be true for the F32 as well).

Look at the 1, 3 (sedan, coupe, GT), X3, upcoming X4, new X5, 5 and 6 (the 6 weighs how much?). The new 2 might be exciting due to it's proportions and weight but if they put cheap materials and obvious cost-cuttings and a poorly executed design, then again it won't personally appeal to me like the E46 did.

If any of you subscribe to Car and Driver, read the latest issue where they do a comparison between the pre-LCI E90 328i (non sport) and the new F30 328i (sport package). Guess what they liked more? E90. And when they drove the E90 328i with sport package, it was game over for the F30 328i with sport package. In their own words, the F30 interior materials felt rental car grade.

When I see an older BMW on the road, it brings a smile to my face but when I see a new BMW, I just shake my head in sadness.

[Tåst]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

To anyone who doesn't believe it's the end of an era, see above.

Well, join of BMW and naturally aspirated engine might be end (very annoying thing, hope that there is room for compact size car whit NA L6), ITB´s and inline six intake noise is one of the glorious things on BMW.

What comes "new era" little sadly turbocharged engines, I except that different between N55 and S55 will be something like M50 and S50EU or M54 and S54 (judging that red line is near 8000rpm, increasing forces needs strengthened components)

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by misterbeemer

If any of you subscribe to Car and Driver, read the latest issue where they do a comparison between the pre-LCI E90 328i (non sport) and the new F30 328i (sport package). Guess what they liked more? E90. And when they drove the E90 328i with sport package, it was game over for the F30 328i with sport package. In their own words, the F30 interior materials felt rental car grade.

I been trying to find this article for an hour, looked in July and June issues and it's not there. Can you give a link?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Ahh that article will be what some of you cling to now.

If this was '08 and they brought an E46 to battle that same E90 they would have chosen it over the E90.

Originally Posted by misterbeemer

BMW has gone crazy and personally for me it has lost it's appeal as an ultimate driving machine. The new 3 series is terrible, F30 and F32 both. Cheaper interiors, cost cutting everywhere, bland designs and practically no fun to drive (I suspect this will be true for the F32 as well).

Look at the 1, 3 (sedan, coupe, GT), X3, upcoming X4, new X5, 5 and 6 (the 6 weighs how much?). The new 2 might be exciting due to it's proportions and weight but if they put cheap materials and obvious cost-cuttings and a poorly executed design, then again it won't personally appeal to me like the E46 did.

If any of you subscribe to Car and Driver, read the latest issue where they do a comparison between the pre-LCI E90 328i (non sport) and the new F30 328i (sport package). Guess what they liked more? E90. And when they drove the E90 328i with sport package, it was game over for the F30 328i with sport package. In their own words, the F30 interior materials felt rental car grade.

When I see an older BMW on the road, it brings a smile to my face but when I see a new BMW, I just shake my head in sadness.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

I been trying to find this article for an hour, looked in July and June issues and it's not there. Can you give a link?

The article was in Road & Track, not Car and Driver. Someone posted a link to the article in this thread.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=858950

[misterbeemer]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

I been trying to find this article for an hour, looked in July and June issues and it's not there. Can you give a link?

Sorry. My bad. It is in R&T. I get both Car and Driver and R&T and I mixed it up.

[misterbeemer]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Ahh that article will be what some of you cling to now.

If this was '08 and they brought an E46 to battle that same E90 they would have chosen it over the E90.

Possible that they would have chosen the E46 over the E90 and I wouldn't be surprised. E46 is an amazing design and fun to drive car. But so is the E90/E92. The E92 was pleasing to look at and fun to drive and it didn't seem like BMW was cutting corners there. It seemed a step above the E46 in terms of quality and is as fun to drive with great looks too. Not so with the F30/F32 unfortunately. F30 loses to the E36/E46/E90 in many aspects except perhaps the gizmos and gimmicks department.

[MPowerZ32]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/...i-65-1-roa0813

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by misterbeemer

F30 loses to the E36/E46/E90 in many aspects except perhaps the gizmos and gimmicks department.

I have put plenty of miles on all the cars you list and the F30 has a lot more going for it besides gimmicks and gizmos lol.

I went out of my way to get a lightly optioned and sport oriented one(Msport, staggered summer tires, 6spd manual). I would pay haters $20 each if they actually drove such a version of the F30 before just buying into what they heard from a guy or read in a magazine. Why have they not driven one? Because they seem to only be special order cars because next to no one seems to buy a manual anymore.

Go to your dealer and find an RWD summer tired manual trans MSport F30 on the lot.

Exactly.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Yes, long gone unfortunately.

[mrbob]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I have put plenty of miles on all the cars you list and the F30 has a lot more going for it besides gimmicks and gizmos lol.

I went out of my way to get a lightly optioned and sport oriented one(Msport, staggered summer tires, 6spd manual). I would pay haters $20 each if they actually drove such a version of the F30 before just buying into what they heard from a guy or read in a magazine. Why have they not driven one? Because they seem to only be special order cars because next to no one seems to buy a manual anymore.

Go to your dealer and find an RWD summer tired manual trans MSport F30 on the lot.

Exactly.

+1, totally agree. F30 is a nice car

[Andreas SA]

I have and had various BMW cars during my life (323i E21, M3E30, M3E36, M3E46, M3E92, 330d E46, 335d E91, Z4 E85, 640i F12)....

All of them were fascinating and great cars at their time!

[i dunno]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I have put plenty of miles on all the cars you list and the F30 has a lot more going for it besides gimmicks and gizmos lol.

I went out of my way to get a lightly optioned and sport oriented one(Msport, staggered summer tires, 6spd manual). I would pay haters $20 each if they actually drove such a version of the F30 before just buying into what they heard from a guy or read in a magazine. Why have they not driven one? Because they seem to only be special order cars because next to no one seems to buy a manual anymore.

Go to your dealer and find an RWD summer tired manual trans MSport F30 on the lot.

Exactly.

i think that's part of the issue. even if your optioned out f30 feels better than the base f30 328i, the fact that the base one is no longer fun to drive represents a slippery slope in bmw's direction. the base model should still be fun to drive. i shouldn't need to add expensive options to make it engaging. also in terms of quality and luxury, the f30 seems to be a downgrade. it no longer has the retractable cup holders, push to open storage bins, or the pneumatic trunk struts. these are pretty trivial things to complain about and doesn't affect the driving aspect at all, but it screams cost cutting.

[ChrisK]

Sad.... but I think so, and my next car will be a Porsche.

[pcornez]

I'm not sure I would ever buy another newer BMW for two reasons, Run Flat Tires and lack of a Dip Stick.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by i dunno

i think that's part of the issue. even if your optioned out f30 feels better than the base f30 328i, the fact that the base one is no longer fun to drive represents a slippery slope in bmw's direction. the base model should still be fun to drive. i shouldn't need to add expensive options to make it engaging. also in terms of quality and luxury, the f30 seems to be a downgrade. it no longer has the retractable cup holders, push to open storage bins, or the pneumatic trunk struts. these are pretty trivial things to complain about and doesn't affect the driving aspect at all, but it screams cost cutting.

I know, it sucks.

You used to be able to buy an E90 without a single thing on it and it would still have the braking, steering, and handling more in line with expectations.

So you can be pissed and bemoan that fact.

Or be happy that you can ala-carte and outfit the car the way you need it to-be glad that the choice exists.

I grew up with sporting Toyotas(MR2, Celica, Supra) Hondas(CRX SI, S2000, INtegra Type R, NSX). Now(aside from the SI and FRS) you cannot find a single performance/satisfying offering from both of those makers. There is NO choice.

Although BMW has shifted a bit, at least you still have options to get the setup you want. But they now offer the 320 with the bargain Sports pack(M wheel, sport seats, staggered 18" summer wheels/tires, 704 sports suspension for $1300). So for under $35k you have the most sporting setup-the people who have bought this setup seem to really love it-people coming from Sport E46 cars even.

I guess I am a glass half full guy.