[devilsadvocate]

One wonders how Big Motoring World are still trading?

I have not found a single positive review that was not written by their own staff but is that because nobody ever leaves a review unless its negative? Perhaps, but I doubt it.

How many people who have had an issue have reported it to trading standards? Surely there must be enough complains to warrant an investigation from them?

Kent trading standards are part of Kent County Council so I suspect they are all tied up bondage style in red tape and meetings with nobody who is capable of making a decision so I am not surprised nothing has been done about the borderline criminals that are Big Motoring World. Having worked for KCC, the amount of over overpaid middle managers and directors who actually prevent progress is astounding yet our tax payers money is being wasted!

How do the salesman sleep at night? They literally must have no morals.
I know salesman can do ok for a living but I can't imagine they are raking it in that much that their morals completely go out of the window?

I realise that these guys buy their cars from auction in bulk but plenty of car garages buy from auctions so why are almost all the ones they sell in un-roadworthy condition? Do they buy the dregs for next to nothing and double the price with no prep work before sale? I suspect the answer is yes...

The fact these cowboys are allowed to carry on trading makes me have little faith in the Sales laws that exist in England. I know the Sale of Goods act does exist but does anybody with any authority actually enforce it?
What about the ombudsman? Surely complaints about them must have been logged with them?

It appears that despite hundreds of bad online reviews, spanning several years that Big Motoring World are continuing to rip innocent people off and rake in millions in profit.

One of the Big Motoring World employees must live near me as I often see his 520D plastered in their logos on my commute to work...

[Black Steel]

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

One wonders how Big Motoring World are still trading?

I have not found a single positive review that was not written by their own staff but is that because nobody ever leaves a review unless its negative? Perhaps, but I doubt it.

How many people who have had an issue have reported it to trading standards? Surely there must be enough complains to warrant an investigation from them?

Kent trading standards are part of Kent County Council so I suspect they are all tied up bondage style in red tape and meetings with nobody who is capable of making a decision so I am not surprised nothing has been done about the borderline criminals that are Big Motoring World. Having worked for KCC, the amount of over overpaid middle managers and directors who actually prevent progress is astounding yet our tax payers money is being wasted!

How do the salesman sleep at night? They literally must have no morals.
I know salesman can do ok for a living but I can't imagine they are raking it in that much that their morals completely go out of the window?

I realise that these guys buy their cars from auction in bulk but plenty of car garages buy from auctions so why are almost all the ones they sell in un-roadworthy condition? Do they buy the dregs for next to nothing and double the price with no prep work before sale? I suspect the answer is yes...

The fact these cowboys are allowed to carry on trading makes me have little faith in the Sales laws that exist in England. I know the Sale of Goods act does exist but does anybody with any authority actually enforce it?
What about the ombudsman? Surely complaints about them must have been logged with them?

It appears that despite hundreds of bad online reviews, spanning several years that Big Motoring World are continuing to rip innocent people off and rake in millions in profit.

One of the Big Motoring World employees must live near me as I often see his 520D plastered in their logos on my commute to work...

I agree that trading standards don't seem to be effective (why?)

Yes, they buy from auctions like every other dealer around, but I suspect that the main difference is they do NOT do any mechanical/electrical inspections etc on their newly aquired vehicles, simply because they are buying so many all the time in bulk, and :


1. Probably hav'nt got the skilled staff for the checks

2. Hav'nt got the time (quick turnaround)

3. Simply can't be bothered!

All they barely seem able to do is clean them!

I've been told on good authority, that for every motor a salesman sells at Big, his commission is £100.

That's on top of his basic salary which is minimum wage.

In theory, if a salesman sells 3 motors a week + wage, he should be looking at just over £500 for a 40 hour week! Not bad for a b***s*****r!

IMO, if your saving a few grand on main BMW dealer prices, then to some it's worth taking a chance?

Say (as a group) their selling almost 5,000 cars per year, how many satisfied/dissatisfied customers from these sales would there be?

That's the $64,000 dollar question! Unfortunately their still in business and expanding.

So my guess is, there must be a lot more satisfied customers, although I truly suspect this has more to do with the purchase price than the reliability.

One day I suspect they will crash, only time will tell.

[Siraj]

These guys are a con! My recent experience with them exposes how they deceive people into engaging with them. Anyone can verify this. Its simple. They advertise a car on autotrader at a significantly lower price. The same car is then advertised according to its actual sale price on carshop. If you ring enquiring about the car, they tell u that they are holding a deposit on it and offer you other similar cars at a much higher price. The car i caught them out on is a 730d m sport. AO10JNK. It is advertised on autotrader for 18k. Same car advertised on carshop for 22k. I rang the sales team. They have absolutely no manners or customer service skills. They sound like rough scallies to be honest. No professionalism.

Anyway, the guy claims the car in question is holding a deposit. So i ask how much did it sell for. He avoided answering and offered me a list of other cars. Sl i asked again how much the car went for. He claims he doesnt have access to it as its not on his list. How bizaare. He says it sold for the advertised price. So i asked what the advertised price is and he replied its the price that its advertised at lol. I think there is a significant difference between a car advertised at 18k and being offered an alternative at 22k. I dont for one minute believe someone has a deposit on it. Its offered as bait...a red herring. They want you to go into the dealership so that then they can put pressure on you. Something needs to be done about this deceit.

[Black Steel]

Has anyone noticed the unusual number of charity events that seem to happen at Big?

A mate of mine phoned them up about a motor they had for sale, only to be told all about the event that was going on instead.

They didn't seem at all interested (how unusual) about flogging him a car!

These events imo are just to gain good publicity for a bad company.

In other words just a smoke screen to make punters feel that they must be a caring company if they are seen to be doing saintly things!!!

[Black Steel]

I was driving behind a double decker bus the other day and almost crashed into it after rubbing my eyes in astonishment.

There was a advertisement plastered accross the back saying where to go for all your BM' needs, no other than Big Motoring World would you believe.

It does'nt seem to matter where you go these days, 'Big' seems to be everywhere!

[Icekube]

Originally Posted by Black Steel

These events imo are just to gain good publicity for a bad company.

In other words just a smoke screen to make punters feel that they must be a caring company if they are seen to be doing saintly things!!!

don't be silly, it will be tax deductible!

[leco]

I'm glad I found this thread, as I am looking to purchase a BMW 3 Series Touring car, as I need the space following the arrival of a new baby (and the enormous amount of equipment we apparently need), but I don't know much about the car at all, including what price I should be aiming to pay, so I was immediately attracted yesterday to what seemed a relatively well priced car on Auto Trader compared to others of the same model. The vehicle was being advertised as a featured car by Big Motoring World, and it was literally 1000s cheaper than anything else that matched it on paper, particularly given the low mileage and young age of the car, so I called Big Motoring World and first of all got told their systems were down by someone who didn't exactly sound super professional, so they couldn't check for that car, and could I call them at another time, which surprised me, as I was a hot lead looking to buy, and they were happy to let me go without offering to take my details and call me back. Also was I supposed to guess when their system was back up? However it seemed such a good deal I did call back, against my better judgement, and was told that car wasn't available for sale so it had probably just gone, but a few other similar ones which had many 10s of thousand more miles were. I asked why the original one was so cheap in comparison others I'd seen on Auto Trader, and was told that 'maybe it had a big scratch down it'. Anyway, suspicions aroused, I put the phone down and looked for some reviews about Big Motoring World, and found this very informative and amusing thread. I'll certainly be avoiding this company now!

Given my lack of knowledge regarding this car, can any of you guys offer any advice about the model and the sort of price I should be looking to pay, and whether or not you would absolutely recommend a main dealership over e.g. an independent dealership or private sale?

I was led to the car by doing online research and it seemed to be very much recommended in it's category compared to e.g. the A4 Avant. The model 'What Car' say is best is the 320d SE 5dr. Firstly, would you agree, as I'm not too bothered whether I drive a diesel or not, particularly as I only drive a few thousand miles a year? Is there much difference between the 320d or i and the 318d or i?

I'm ideally looking to spend £10-13.5k for a car that is up to 5 years old, and has below 60k miles. The Big Motoring World car, which is still being advertised today as a featured offer on AutoTrader despite being sold, was a 318d for 11k despite being a 2011 model! The mileage was 40k. It had new tyres, alloys, MP3 interface etc etc. However, when I now look on the BMW main dealers site, I suddenly come across similar models around that price which are 2007 models and with a lot more miles, so I've definitely had my perceptions skewed by Big Motoring World.

Any advice welcome

[Mani59]

Originally Posted by leco

Given my lack of knowledge regarding this car, can any of you guys offer any advice about the model and the sort of price I should be looking to pay, and whether or not you would absolutely recommend a main dealership over e.g. an independent dealership or private sale?

I don't know what the price of E90's are going for on AUC at the moment so not sure if they are in your budget, but I certainly do recommend that you purchase from a BMW dealership as you get the benefit of the BMW AUC warranty.

[leco]

Originally Posted by Raj59

I don't know what the price of E90's are going for on AUC at the moment so not sure if they are in your budget, but I certainly do recommend that you purchase from a BMW dealership as you get the benefit of the BMW AUC warranty.

Thanks for the advice, I tend to agree. I have looked, and they seem a lot more expensive than elsewhere, which is a shame, but you obviously get a lot more reassurance. For my budget it just means I'd need to get a lot older car with higher mileage compared to the other options. For example a 2007, 320d Touring with 72k miles is 12k, and I wouldn't be interested in that age or mileage, so you can see why the Big Motoring World featured car that isn't actually available when you call seemed so attractive at first glance when 1k cheaper, 30k less miles and 4 years younger. However, given this thread I imagine you get what you pay for even if it was available!

[TheMorphiuz]

Wow! Think I dodged a bullet there.

I just bought a 320d from an independent guy in Didsbury. Nice chap, small forecourt crammed with high-ish-end cars parked mirror to mirror. I was going to go down to these people to see what they actually had in because trying to get hold of them on the phone was a nightmare.

Apparently, this sold 3 weeks ago:
http://www.bigmotoringworld.co.uk/us...1311129856615#

Hmmmm. I paid £500 more than that for a car with 17k more on it and no iDrive or leather.

[Black Steel]

Originally Posted by leco

I'm glad I found this thread, as I am looking to purchase a BMW 3 Series Touring car, as I need the space following the arrival of a new baby (and the enormous amount of equipment we apparently need), but I don't know much about the car at all, including what price I should be aiming to pay, so I was immediately attracted yesterday to what seemed a relatively well priced car on Auto Trader compared to others of the same model. The vehicle was being advertised as a featured car by Big Motoring World, and it was literally 1000s cheaper than anything else that matched it on paper, particularly given the low mileage and young age of the car, so I called Big Motoring World and first of all got told their systems were down by someone who didn't exactly sound super professional, so they couldn't check for that car, and could I call them at another time, which surprised me, as I was a hot lead looking to buy, and they were happy to let me go without offering to take my details and call me back. Also was I supposed to guess when their system was back up? However it seemed such a good deal I did call back, against my better judgement, and was told that car wasn't available for sale so it had probably just gone, but a few other similar ones which had many 10s of thousand more miles were. I asked why the original one was so cheap in comparison others I'd seen on Auto Trader, and was told that 'maybe it had a big scratch down it'. Anyway, suspicions aroused, I put the phone down and looked for some reviews about Big Motoring World, and found this very informative and amusing thread. I'll certainly be avoiding this company now!

Given my lack of knowledge regarding this car, can any of you guys offer any advice about the model and the sort of price I should be looking to pay, and whether or not you would absolutely recommend a main dealership over e.g. an independent dealership or private sale?

I was led to the car by doing online research and it seemed to be very much recommended in it's category compared to e.g. the A4 Avant. The model 'What Car' say is best is the 320d SE 5dr. Firstly, would you agree, as I'm not too bothered whether I drive a diesel or not, particularly as I only drive a few thousand miles a year? Is there much difference between the 320d or i and the 318d or i?

I'm ideally looking to spend £10-13.5k for a car that is up to 5 years old, and has below 60k miles. The Big Motoring World car, which is still being advertised today as a featured offer on AutoTrader despite being sold, was a 318d for 11k despite being a 2011 model! The mileage was 40k. It had new tyres, alloys, MP3 interface etc etc. However, when I now look on the BMW main dealers site, I suddenly come across similar models around that price which are 2007 models and with a lot more miles, so I've definitely had my perceptions skewed by Big Motoring World.

Any advice welcome

If you're only doing a few thousand miles per year then you should go for either the 318i or 320i petrol engine's.

IMO if you're doing more than say 15,000 miles per year or you intend to keep the car for a long period of time then going for the diesel engine would be a better choice.

However, the diesel engine cars will cost more than the petrol engine equivalent (as prices will show), and will cost more to maintain due to the parts and servicing.

I must admit that a good all-rounder for me is the 320d, you have the performance with the economy ie: 0-60 in 7.5 sec, 145 mph, 50+ mpg,
and 600 miles to a full tank (if driven reasonably), I guess that's why I bought one!

Also, I would'nt be too concerned about having i-drive, as there is more to go wrong with the i-drive system (as everyone I've spoken to tell's me), plus it spoils the look of the straight cut clean line dash with the extra (hump) binacle.

It does'nt really matter if you don't buy the vehicle from a main dealer,but just make sure it has an up to date fully maintained service history by a recognised main BM' dealer in the past.

Finally, even though I slag Big Motoring World, keep an open mind. A mate of mine went down there without telling them he was comming, saw the car with the spec he wanted and bought it, he saved himself around £3k compared to a main dealer!

Yes they weren't very helpfull, they were rude and abrupt with him and the warranty was'nt worth the paper it was printed on, but he decided he could put up with all that if he was saving a lot of money, and to date the car is running ok. He took a chance and the gamble payed off! (although it has'nt for many).

A good place to start looking is online at www.Autotrader.co.uk, know the spec
of car you're after and be patient, something will turn up sooner or later it always does.

[Black Steel]

Originally Posted by TheMorphiuz

Wow! Think I dodged a bullet there.

I just bought a 320d from an independent guy in Didsbury. Nice chap, small forecourt crammed with high-ish-end cars parked mirror to mirror. I was going to go down to these people to see what they actually had in because trying to get hold of them on the phone was a nightmare.

Apparently, this sold 3 weeks ago:
http://www.bigmotoringworld.co.uk/us...1311129856615#

Hmmmm. I paid £500 more than that for a car with 17k more on it and no iDrive or leather.

You probably had a lucky escape mate! The car probably never existed in the first place, it was an ad used to lure punters in like yourself.

Big Motoring World do this all the time, just a red herring used as bait to get you down there and waste your time, trying to flog you another car you don't want!

Many people have complained to trading standards about them, but nothing ever seems to happen, maybe they've got inside connections?

[Black Steel]

Driving along the other day listening to my favourite radio station, when the music was interrupted by an advert............ yes you've guessed it,
Bloody Big Motoring World again!!!!

So my advice to anyone driving around the kent area is.........Don't get stuck behind a double decker bus listening to KMFM Radio!

[savgeax]

Saw a guy named "Lester" from Big Motoring World at Blackbushe Car Auctions today. He was bidding on stock from BMW UK Ltd.

[RhysT1]

Glad i found this thread, I call these guys around 10 times about cars they had on there website and every car was surprising "sold", I was quickly offered lower spec cars for more money There sales team kept asking me to come down and view there range of cars as they have so many, But its like a few people have already mentioned in this tread, The cheaper cars you see advertised on autotrader ect.. Don't even exist they just lure you down there and try and sell you the same spec cars for around 3k more money.

[Lazza]

I just bought a 335i from a small prestige dealer.

For a laugh I stopped at Big as it's round the corner from where I live and they 'apparently' had 3 335i's within my budget.

They have changed it now so you can't even get to the cars without being 'processed' through the lobby/reception/interrogation room. Once through, low and behold, they had not a single one of the 335 coupes. BUT they did have cabs and saloons for a couple of grand more.......

I have no idea how they have expanded not only to canterbury, but also to snodland too. They also won 'Motor Dealer Of The Year' last year I think it was.....

I know the owner too. Well friend of a friend, and he is MINTED.

Unbelievable

[Ben_g40]

Another negative here.

I purchased a Golf GTi Mk5 from these in Canterbury. Although it looked good in pictures and had decent spec it turned out it had a cheap cover up job of rust on all four arches which lasted all of 3 months before coming through again.
Customer service was shocking too. Was sold with tax but was told it had been removed after purchasing the vehicle. A lot of confusion as the car had a private plate which was in the process of being removed.

Overall not the best of car dealers.

[bazz780]

so i got talking to someone yesterday who had a 120d sport which looked tidy apart from the mass of black smoke along the whole rear of the car,

I asked if the car is treating me well to which the chap replied "funny you should ask, bought the car from Big Motoring World (B.M.W) 2 months ago, car started smoking like a train, so called B.M.W who said thats fine get it checked at a local garage and we will pay for what ever it is.... nice enough/fair enough

Then... after paying 1300.00 for a replacement turbo the garage stated the catalytic converter is clogged up and needs a good clear out so keep using the car until all the crap is out

He contacted B.M.W and advised them what the cost was to repair the car, the response was oh we dont cover that but will pay 300.00 towards the cost out of sympathy but cant help any further.

Now this chap didnt have a clue that he can approach trading standards with his issue, he knows he has a 3 month warranty but got fobbed off by B.M.W stating they dont cover that, good job he has all in writing and will be taking my advice and take things further!

Shame on you not so BIG motoring world!

[rhysh1990]

Is this them by any chance? sales guy seems clueless lol

[Jasonptspurs]

This is the post I have put on their review sites, so if you are thinking of buying a car there, please read this first then decide.

I will start this post the wrong way round for the simple reason of- DO NOT EVER BUY A CAR FROM THIS COMPANY!!! WHY? Well let me now explain.

I went along to this company (CAN’T EVEN BRING MYSELF TO SAY THEIR NAME!!) looking for a 3 series tourer or a 5 series saloon advertised on their website, however and surprise surprise neither of these cars existed (given a story of lots of sales so they shift cars quicker than they can update their website and then looking through stock list, blah blah blah……and hence why there are so many posts on here about non-existent cars are just bait to get people in..) anyway I was then stupid enough to buy another car after their Salesman was super helpful to find me another for 2k more!!! I then waited all day to sort paperwork, finance and their Toilet paper (sorry warranty) out and a quick clean (as otherwise I would need to wait another week to collect the car from their collection centre up the road as they were so busy where I was told that I would be greeted by a “pretty girl” who would do a handover of the car,(I would add that these were THEIR WORDS NOT MINE!!!) so decided to take car there and then and off I went and at that stage quite happy although tired as it had been a unexpected all day experience!

Fast forward 3 ½ months…….breakdown!! Transmission malfunction!! So a quick call to them while by the roadside and nothing (in fact if I hadn’t chased and sorted my own recovery out I think I would be still be there 5 weeks later!!!) no call back, nothing! so I had no choice but to get car recovered to my local BMW independent for repair (or so I thought!!) my local started to look at the car and advised what he suspected was the problem and an approx. cost, I said “ok, no problem it has a warranty so you just need to speak to them (Warranty 2000) and get it approved” his answer….”No way we are still waiting to get paid for another job and that’s gone legal!!, we can fix it you pay us and then you claim money back from them” So I had to say “ok stop everything!” pay him £160 and get car to their service centre in Kent, I live in Cambridgeshire and the car is broken!!!! Anyway I finally manage to get the car to Kent after several emails to Mr Peter Weddle over the weekend, and that was 5 WEEKS AGO!!!!!. I still have no car, the communication is absolutely disgusting (unless I constantly chase) and I am still waiting for call backs that never come. I have spoken to many companies over this problem and every single one of them just sighs when I say “it’s BIG MOTORING WORLD”; I am talking companies that are over 150miles away, so quite a reputation eh? They have offered me a so called good will gesture so far against a bill that’s over £2K FOR A CAR I PURHCASED FOR £17K plus £1200 for a 39month warranty IN APRIL!!! Which funny enough is exactly the same amount as the claim limit on the warranty less excess of £100 SO, SO MUCH FOR GOOD WILL EH?? The way I was sold the warranty is also questionable but that’s for another day….by the way the warranty is actually underwritten (as such) by Big Motoring World, Warranty 2000 or whatever they choose to call themselves are just the administrators do please be aware of this and if you are intent on buying a car from this lot then at least sort your own warranty out!!!!
So, as I said at the beginning DO NOT BUY A CAR FROM THESE PEOPLE!!! Whilst waiting in their reception on that Monday every single person that came in (and I mean every single person) had a complaint with a car they had purchased!!!!!!
If you have had a problem then please post here as I have already approached Watchdog and the more of you that do the same the quicker this company can be stopped from doing what it does!!!
This story has so much more that would fill 10 pages and as of yet they still have the car so…………
I have driven BMW for many years and now at the point where I may not buy another ever again due to this so called Specialist Company!!


Right, I have now had enough time to calm down and write a considered response to the farce that is Big Motoring World customer service! I won’t go over the whole story again; you can read the previous issues and reviews at your leisure. Also, I deal with facts not fluffy bunny testimonials or “they are great and provided tea and biscuits would but another car etc. etc. rubbish, this is about after sales not the buying experience , if the car hadn’t gone wrong then I too would have been generally happy with the purchasing process, it’s what happens when a car goes wrong is when ANY company shows its true colours! So……finally after waiting 10 weeks for the car to be repaired I am able to collect it, so I arrive at Vantage point at 3pm, should be a quick chat, pay the bill and off up the road ½ hr tops (how wrong could I be!!) I am told to wait while they prepare paperwork; 40mins later nothing, so I go back to the counter and ask what is happening? I am handed a telephone handset and its Bob the Service Manager (as I have already said he was the only person there that actually gave me any sort of worthwhile information) anyway he is surprised I am collecting car!! Why he would say that when I have waiting 10 weeks to get the car back, but never mind!! He then goes on to say to me that he has (after much begging to his boss) managed to convince the owner of the business – Peter Waddell I believe to honour the Warranty payment (it was under threat due to bad review about them previously I had made, I don’t remember reading that reason for not paying out a claim in the small print eh??) but only if I either retract the bad review or write something nice, I had already agreed to do this and in fact already started to soften with subsequent comments, if I was happy with the outcome and as I have already written previously they did have to wait for a part so not completely at fault, anyway I am asked to go upstairs to an office with a computer and do it now “what now?” I ask, “Yes as we can only pay the warranty if you do it now” I am told, so do I have a choice?? I then spend nearly an hour trying to do as they ask but as it’s not my computer which has all my passwords saved for the website I am unable to do so, I didn’t refuse to it was I just plain simply couldn’t due to the security issues, I offered and actually wrote an email to the admin of the review site but this apparently was not good enough, it’s now 5pm! And I have a 2 hour drive home at rush hour! So finally I lose patience and basically tell them forget the £900 warranty payment, if they don’t trust me to write when I return home forget it! I am already loosing fortunes anyway (I’ll explain at the end) and just want to go home, so after much apologies from the girl and chap in the office I march back downstairs and by now steam is coming out my ears!!!!! I try to pay a £2044 repair bill on my credit card and am then told ”sorry we don’t take credit cards, we can only take either debit card or bank transfer” What company today doesn’t take credit cards for Christ sake? They then have the audacity to tell me that I could leave the car there and come back tomorrow with the money!!!! Yeah right 400mile round trip….OK!! So I now have to find two grand at what is now 5.30pm or I can’t take the car I have been waiting 10 weeks for!!! Anyway and fortunately I managed to find the money thanks to my Mum and various other means of quick finance and pay the bill and leave, it’s now 6pm!!!
And for the record there were some decent people waiting for their cars that had also gone wrong with some big issues so I was not alone!
So, to summarise its quite simply the worst experience of buying a car I have EVER HAD from beginning to end.
If you are considering a car from Big Motoring World I suggest you and unlike me do your homework, Google them, read the reviews about after sales and not the buying experience, to help you here are the facts:-
9th April- purchased the car (530d SE saloon 10 plate)
Car £17k
Buyers fee £142
Warranty (that didn’t pay out although it was approved and is confirmed on their reply on the Review site!) 36months £912.50
17th July - Breakdown
18th July - My local garage costs £151.20
Into Big Motoring world 21st July
24th September - Collect car and pay invoice £2044 and then immediately part exchanged for a new BMW at my trusted local Main Dealer for £14k
Total cost 20,250
So the total loss for 5 months use of the car that I purchased from Big Motoring World which spent 3 ½ months in their workshop is £6250!!!!!!! And that doesn’t include HP payments during this time, so make your own minds up…………….fortunately the car went straight to my local Main dealer that evening (as we didn’t want it back home) where at 8pm they were waiting for me to arrive, they took the car and thank God hope to never see it ever again!

As my friends have told me it’s a learning experience and if I never see or visit Big Motoring World ever again it would still be too soon!

[gIzzE]

Trading standards need to step in on these cunts.

[225_AB]

How are big motoring world who sell dodgy bmw's with appalling customer service still in business?