[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by DWR

Hoooper , do you understand how the trans is able to "skip gears", in some circumstances? I think I am asking how it enters a new map, as I don't think it can happen within a map. Correct me if I'm off base, please.

Well as you said there are multiple maps, but I think it can be illustrated in just one map. Even looking at the xe map above you can see it. For example, if you are cruising in 6th at 1500 RPM, then put the hammer down to 100% you would follow the 1500 line to the right all the way to 100%. The last downshift line you cross would be the gear to skip to on downshift. So in that example you would skip from 6th to 3rd. Likely there is some programming which incorporates a short time delay in shift initiation (very short, obviously) so that you can get from the 6-5 point on the map to the 5-4 to the 4-3 before the computer actually initiates the shift. The same can be said for the reverse action (you go from 100% pedal to 10% for example).

I dont know how quickly the computer decides to change between the shift maps from xe to e, etc. but skipping gears would essentially be the same deal when changing maps. You would just follow the RPM line on the new map rather than the old map.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Well as you said there are multiple maps, but I think it can be illustrated in just one map. Even looking at the xe map above you can see it. For example, if you are cruising in 6th at 1500 RPM, then put the hammer down to 100% you would follow the 1500 line to the right all the way to 100%. The last downshift line you cross would be the gear to skip to on downshift. So in that example you would skip from 6th to 3rd. Likely there is some programming which incorporates a short time delay in shift initiation (very short, obviously) so that you can get from the 6-5 point on the map to the 5-4 to the 4-3 before the computer actually initiates the shift. The same can be said for the reverse action (you go from 100% pedal to 10% for example).

I dont know how quickly the computer decides to change between the shift maps from xe to e, etc. but skipping gears would essentially be the same deal when changing maps. You would just follow the RPM line on the new map rather than the old map.

Ok, so you are saying it goes through all the gears, from a programming sense. And, of course, there must be some sort of minimum time in a particular state to initiate a shift.

I think I understand. Suppose there is a status parameter the says next gear, up or down, according to the maps. A countdown timer is started. The program takes that next gear and checks if that is still appropriate. If it is still appropriate, it keeps looping through the check, until the coundown timer reaches zero. At that point, the shift is initiated. But in the case you describe above, it is not appropriate and a new next gear is incremented and the countdown timer is reset.

So, that means the only way to get the behavoir that @[Mik325tds] (contact:247432) logged is by switching maps. No amount of throttle would cause a downshift in the modified map without a reduction of OSS. But OSS did not go low enough to cause a downshift. However, we can see that SA_wert changes, even though the mode did not, according to Testo. This supports the theory that there are status changes within a mode.

Wish we had more documentation.

[Hoooper]

Unless im reading the charts wrong it looks like the test data was at about 1300 RPM (OSS speed) which would have correlated to 4th gear (?) and the data fits the chart but wouldnt have been affected by the map change of the 6-5 shift

[DWR]

Originally Posted by DWR

I am wondering if SA_WERT is the map being used.

I'm just grasping at straws, and revisiting things I've already deciphered.

In my logs, SA_WERT it is the same in D or S. So, not directly related to maps.

Similarly, STAT_SCHALTDIAGRAMM_AGS_WERT = XE, even in S. I don't think it ever changes, just as others have said. So, how can the trans always be in extreme economy mode?

[_TB_]

Originally Posted by DWR

I'm just grasping at straws, and revisiting things I've already deciphered.

In my logs, SA_WERT it is the same in D or S. So, not directly related to maps.

Similarly, STAT_SCHALTDIAGRAMM_AGS_WERT = XE, even in S. I don't think it ever changes, just as others have said. So, how can the trans always be in extreme economy mode?

My 325d is in xe when I. D and in s when in ... S

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Unless im reading the charts wrong it looks like the test data was at about 1300 RPM (OSS speed) which would have correlated to 4th gear (?) and the data fits the chart but wouldnt have been affected by the map change of the 6-5 shift

No OSS in the test data. Just engine rpm and wheel speed. Of course, you can get to OSS if you know tire diameter and rear axle ratio. Or log it with ABTRIEBSDREHZAHL_WERT.


IMO, Mik325tds and I need to get these charts in order so that we can read MPH vs Throttle %, and get the data in that form as well. It is just too much mental juggling otherwise.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by DWR

No OSS in the test data. Just engine rpm and wheel speed. Of course, you can get to OSS if you know tire diameter and rear axle ratio. Or log it with ABTRIEBSDREHZAHL_WERT.


IMO, Mik325tds and I need to get these charts in order so that we can read MPH vs Throttle %, and get the data in that form as well. It is just too much mental juggling otherwise.

Yes, I think you're right. It would be easier to understand with MPH. You already did this conversion earlier in this post: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=164. I just can't find the conversion formulas in your excel file.

As for the differences in the log file vs. the map - I think the downshift at 70% throttle is one that I call "external modifiers" like the forced shift inhibit in curves. Those just override the shift maps be external events like a throttle increase by lets say 50% within 2 seconds would cause a downshift no matter what.

The multiple shifts within one event I have no idea on how they would work. Definitely would make sense upon entry into a different map. We really need more documentation.

But as of right now, I really like the modified shift behavior. If you are just cruising along with 50 and want a slight increase in speed, there's no shifting. However, if you're on a ramp and really want to get going it does shift into 5th just fine.

[Unklejoe]

I know it's already been figured out, but:

Here's another method of flashing the TCU.

It's interesting that this seems to have been released right around the same time (in the grand scheme of things) as the solution here. Perhaps dave205t is affiliated?

I'm probably going to buy this soon. However, I would rather my money go to dave205t and the others here who have helped, so I'll wait a little to see what he decides to do as far as offering/selling this.

After looking further, it sounds like they send you back files to flash based on your requested changes. I'm not sure if they provide support for flashing your own modified files (probably not). I'm about to email them.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Unklejoe

I know it's already been figured out, but:

Here's another method of flashing the TCU.
.

They are covering many models. Unfortunately, the website says they don't have any trans tuning for the 335d.
https://www.vividracing.com/catalog/...filter_id=1104

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by DWR

No OSS in the test data. Just engine rpm and wheel speed. Of course, you can get to OSS if you know tire diameter and rear axle ratio. Or log it with ABTRIEBSDREHZAHL_WERT.


IMO, Mik325tds and I need to get these charts in order so that we can read MPH vs Throttle %, and get the data in that form as well. It is just too much mental juggling otherwise.

The shift chart is oss right? If so, which it sure looks like it is, you definitely need to compare with a log of oss since otherwise you have to do gear ratio conversion before even starting to look at it.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

The shift chart is oss right?

Nope, that is what I was saying. I know the parameters are in German, but trust me none of them are for OSS.
Because these kinds of charts usually are in OSS, I knew that's what you were thinking.
Thanks for the help earlier in the day!

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by DWR

Nope, that is what I was saying. I know the parameters are in German, but trust me none of them are for OSS.
Because these kinds of charts usually are in OSS, I knew that's what you were thinking.
Thanks for the help earlier in the day!

I'm talking about the chart that was posted that says oss vs throttle at the top. If it's not oss, and it's definitely not engine rpm, and it's definitely not wheel rpm, what is the scale? I guess it doesn't really matter, point is the charts should have matching parameters so we can at least be looking at comparable data right?

[dave205t]

Originally Posted by Unklejoe

Here's another method of flashing the TCU.

It's interesting that this seems to have been released right around the same time (in the grand scheme of things) as the solution here. Perhaps dave205t is affiliated?

I'm probably going to buy this soon. However, I would rather my money go to dave205t and the others here who have helped, so I'll wait a little to see what he decides to do as far as offering/selling this.

Interesting, it seems Frieling group is the one who cracked it (not sure to what extend) http://www.frieling-group.com/bmw-tr...-applications/ and what transmissions are covered, im not (knowingly) affiliated with it.
Coincidentally they announced some weeks after i completed it (and shared).

Best regards, Dave

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

I'm talking about the chart that was posted that says oss vs throttle at the top. If it's not oss, and it's definitely not engine rpm, and it's definitely not wheel rpm, what is the scale? I guess it doesn't really matter, point is the charts should have matching parameters so we can at least be looking at comparable data right?

Sorry, for the misunderstanding. When you said "...looks like the test data was at about 1300 RPM (OSS speed)," that is what I was refering to.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by DWR

Sorry, for the misunderstanding. When you said "...looks like the test data was at about 1300 RPM (OSS speed)," that is what I was refering to.

Yeah my first post was assuming both charts were oss, the second just referred to the second chart. Do you have a way of collecting the data using the same variable? With the second data in excel you could always convert to mph I guess.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Yeah my first post was assuming both charts were oss, the second just referred to the second chart. Do you have a way of collecting the data using the same variable? With the second data in excel you could always convert to mph I guess.

Yes, we can do customized parameters in Testo ... have to remember how to do that. I get OSS, but I think to make this all more accessible to a braoder audience, MPH makes sense. That's an easy calibration factor, obtained by logging OSS and MPH.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Yeah my first post was assuming both charts were oss, the second just referred to the second chart. Do you have a way of collecting the data using the same variable? With the second data in excel you could always convert to mph I guess.

Unfortunately, I didn't log OSS in my last logs but originally I did log the OSS (STAT_ABTRIEBSDREHZAHL_WERT). Here it is:

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Unklejoe

I know it's already been figured out, but:

Here's another method of flashing the TCU.

It's interesting that this seems to have been released right around the same time (in the grand scheme of things) as the solution here. Perhaps dave205t is affiliated?

Fascinating how inventions sometimes happen at around the same time in different places (most famously the Bell/Gray telephone invention). First Nizpro (Australia), then Dave (Netherlands), then VR/Frieling (Israel/US?). However, even though Nizpro and VR seem to have much more knowledge of the maps than we do, neither one of them supports the 335d. Is it different than the others or are we just not their target group?

[ivantichy]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

Fascinating how inventions sometimes happen at around the same time in different places (most famously the Bell/Gray telephone invention). First Nizpro (Australia), then Dave (Netherlands), then VR/Frieling (Israel/US?). However, even though Nizpro and VR seem to have much more knowledge of the maps than we do, neither one of them supports the 335d. Is it different than the others or are we just not their target group?

I would say you can just guess. Maybe it was easier, maybe the guy who hacked that just had different car than we have.

I used cracked SW in my Ducati Diavel. The guy who cracked that is from Australia. It is not so common bike and they just did that. Who knows. Maybe they have nothing else to do in Australia

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by Mik325tds

Unfortunately, I didn't log OSS in my last logs but originally I did log the OSS (STAT_ABTRIEBSDREHZAHL_WERT). Here it is:

So, assuming the tests were done at about the same speed, it looks like you would possibly have crossed the 5-4 downshift line which would explain why it downshifted even though you didnt cross the 6-5 line. Does that seem possible? In order to test whether there are additional modifier maps you would need to make sure you modify the maps so that you arent crossing any downshift lines, not just the 6-5 line.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

So, assuming the tests were done at about the same speed, it looks like you would possibly have crossed the 5-4 downshift line which would explain why it downshifted even though you didnt cross the 6-5 line. Does that seem possible? In order to test whether there are additional modifier maps you would need to make sure you modify the maps so that you arent crossing any downshift lines, not just the 6-5 line.

So, you are saying now that the map lookup is NOT by current gear and OSS.
It can be in 6th gear and make a shift based on a 5>4 downshift. Since we know the trans can skipshift, why didn't go into 4th? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to nail down the logic. Wouldn't it have hit the 4>5 upshift first?

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by DWR

So, you are saying now that the map lookup is NOT by current gear and OSS.
It can be in 6th gear and make a shift based on a 5>4 downshift. Since we know the trans can skipshift, why didn't go into 4th? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to nail down the logic. Wouldn't it have hit the 4>5 upshift first?

Agreed with DWR. I don't think it is looking at the 5>4 line when it is in 6. It definitely only shifted to 5th at 70% throttle. It does the same with 100% throttle. I haven't tried the kickdown switch yet, though. That actually may cause it to double shift or more.