I cloned my MSV70 DME

hassmaschine · 03-04-2017, 03:03 PM

For $600.... Sure.

3002 tii · 03-04-2017, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

For $600.... Sure.

Yea never said it was free but if your only other option is spending $2k at dealer...

hassmaschine · 03-04-2017, 03:31 PM

For now.. I didn't even pay $100 for two MSV80 test DMEs, so $600 to recover one is a stretch. But it does at least reflect the difficulty of doing so. The MPC5xx based computers are trivial to recover.

3002 tii · 03-04-2017, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

For now.. I didn't even pay $100 for two MSV80 test DMEs, so $600 to recover one is a stretch. But it does at least reflect the difficulty of doing so. The MPC5xx based computers are trivial to recover.

I simply answered someone's question as to whether a bricked msv80 could be repaired. I posted information for a company that offers such services to which you replied that it's not possible though it appears that's not the case.

Not sure why the question has now evolved into justifying RPM's price or value. The point is yes a bricked msv80 can be restored but it comes at a cost.

hassmaschine · 03-04-2017, 03:52 PM

I'm really not trying to argue with you. I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to say.

The point is we are still early in testing this stuff - if you brick your DME flashing a "free" tune, it's going to cost you something to repair it. Either a new DME or maybe a week's downtime while you pay several hundred to repair the bricked computer. Maybe not a big deal for my $35 used test computer, but for somebody who only has one car and needs it to get to work - it can be an issue.

JohnG7 · 03-04-2017, 04:21 PM

Thanks guys, you both answered it covering pretty much what we'd face. Is my DD, but could ride the Harley if forced to

(but am in no rush to drop much cash). I'll leave the testing to you guys till you feel is safe.

Losing use of my car would be an annoyance. I thought I'd bricked this MSV80 once, is not a good feeling.

Till then, will read the progress as it happens- am still hoping AA releases their updated tune since that could affect my car. Either way, this work is going to help many owners.

rjahl · 03-05-2017, 08:24 PM

For those of you who updated their engine from a 325 to 330++ with an automatic transmission . You really need to update the transmission calibration file to the 330 version. Just consider it part of the process, you can thank me later.

I have 40,000+ miles on the updated Engine tune but just did the transmission today, (long story) so far it's a huge difference in normal driving. It's clear to me that the shift maps are now more closely aligned to the engine torque curves. In particular 2>3 shift with a light throttle does not happen right on top of 1>2.

I've only done a few milk runs so I'm still learning what changed but I don't expect any changes in the rev limiters or shift speeds. I've already compared those in the Bin and they are the same.

More to come.....

Terraphantm · 03-06-2017, 08:13 AM

325s and 328s come with GM transmissions though instead of ZF.

Terraphantm · 03-06-2017, 08:39 AM

Oh cool they should be good to go then. The 328 guys are SOL I guess unless they do a transmission swap (at which point you may as well do a manual conversion).

For the ZF guys, I think I would also try the pre-LCI 630i (euro) software.

hassmaschine · 03-06-2017, 09:41 AM

Why do you think GM flashes are impossible? They're both MPC5xx based AFAIK? At least, it was in the technical spec / contract somebody posted a while back.

rjahl · 03-06-2017, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Why do you think GM flashes are impossible? They're both MPC5xx based AFAIK? At least, it was in the technical spec / contract somebody posted a while back.

Why couldn't the 328 guys with a GM use a file from a EU based 330?

We are not writing custom tunes for the transmissions, yet.

Terraphantm · 03-06-2017, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Why do you think GM flashes are impossible? They're both MPC5xx based AFAIK? At least, it was in the technical spec / contract somebody posted a while back.

I don't think they're impossible to flash, there just wasn't any factory 330i GM software as far as I knew. If there's a Euro 330 w/ a GM transmission, that flash should work.

Edit: Looks like there is. Also, looks like pre-LCI 328s got a ZF transmission too (though I don't know which GKE that uses)

anjuna · 03-06-2017, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraphantm

I don't think they're impossible to flash, there just wasn't any factory 330i GM software as far as I knew. If there's a Euro 330 w/ a GM transmission, that flash should work.

Edit: Looks like there is. Also, looks like pre-LCI 328s got a ZF transmission too (though I don't know which GKE that uses)

Pre-LCI 328i owner here. GM tranny.

Best bet is to ALWAYS check your vin on realOEM or the likes.

Now what would be REALLY interesting is the behavior of a car outfitted with a GM transmission that had a ZF tranny put in place. I don't know anything about where the TCU is located or anything like that though.

hassmaschine · 03-06-2017, 01:52 PM

it's inside the transmission, so it wouldn't probably matter.

Except I think it also interfaces with EWS, so it would probably be in limp mode if it starts at all.

Terraphantm · 03-06-2017, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

it's inside the transmission, so it wouldn't probably matter.

Except I think it also interfaces with EWS, so it would probably be in limp mode if it starts at all.

They all support EWS, but seems like they didn't start using it until the E70 X5

Quote:

Originally Posted by anjuna

Pre-LCI 328i owner here. GM tranny.

Best bet is to ALWAYS check your vin on realOEM or the likes.

Now what would be REALLY interesting is the behavior of a car outfitted with a GM transmission that had a ZF tranny put in place. I don't know anything about where the TCU is located or anything like that though.

Yeah i was going by RealOEM. I should have specified sedan (2007 models basically).

iahawkeye · 03-07-2017, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerGeeks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraphantm

Oh cool they should be good to go then. The 328 guys are SOL I guess unless they do a transmission swap (at which point you may as well do a manual conversion).

For the ZF guys, I think I would also try the pre-LCI 630i (euro) software.

That's what I'm running

X2. 07 328 coupe with the zf box.

90% of this thread is lost on me but I've been following loosely. It's also on my to do list to get inpa/winkfp et al installed on a pc here so maybe I can be a test mule once everyone is confident nothing will break.

Levanime · 03-08-2017, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnG7

If someone bricks their MSV80 DME, would they be forced to buy a new virgin DME and get a dealer to set it up? (at this point)?

I fix bricked DMEs,

if its not fixable i can program used DME to your CAS,

i.e. you do not have to purchase new one.

hassmaschine · 03-08-2017, 11:45 AM

well there you go - it's good to have options.

but to be clear - you can't change the EWS4 secret key on a used DME - you would write that instead to the CAS, right? But if something happened to the boot code, program or data, you could repair that sort of failure?

rjahl · 03-09-2017, 07:21 PM

While maybe a subject for a new thread, I'll bring this up again

I've run the higher HP version of the ZF tune for a few hundred miles and I can say the following:

1. If you have an automatic and upgraded your intake and tune, you will like the upgraded file for the transmission as well!

2. While I expected some changes to the shift maps, I was not really expecting them to be an improvement. I was wrong, In the Economy maps, the spacing between gear shifts 2-3 are much better. Sport mode is actually fun to use.

3. Torque management, its clear to me that the torque converter clutch is working differently, Transitions are smother yet firmer. I have not found the map in the Calibration file that is affecting this but it's a clear improvement. It's also affecting the feel of the higher loaded shifts. They are much more positive. At this point, I don't know if this the the designed slip in the torque converter or the torque reduction requests made by the TCU. I have enough of the pressure regulator maps located to know that it's probably not the gear clutch pressure.

If things go as planned, I'll break this into a new thread soon.

Terraphantm · 03-09-2017, 07:30 PM

If you haven't already, you should try retrofitting the sport button. Z4s are all pre-wired for it already and the DME tune already has all the appropriate bytes flipped. Sport mode is also supposed to influence shift behavior on Z4s.

rjahl · 03-09-2017, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraphantm

If you haven't already, you should try retrofitting the sport button. Z4s are all pre-wired for it already and the DME tune already has all the appropriate bytes flipped. Sport mode is also supposed to influence shift behavior on Z4s.

Yes, that's something I want to try. It also affects the steering and engine throttle response. One more project.....

Terraphantm · 03-09-2017, 07:38 PM

Yep. I quite liked the throttle difference after getting it to work on my 330i (though I do wonder if the difference would be less pronounced on a valvetronic engine). I can't comment on transmission or steering since my 330 is a manual and has hydraulic steering.

It should be like a 10 minute retrofit since everything is prewired. Switch is overpriced at $50, but at least it has the factory fit/finish.

If you dig out the connector and momentarily connect a resistor between ground and the trigger pin (resistance has to be somewhere between 3.5kΩ and 18kΩ; I used 10k), you can trigger sport mode that way to see if you notice a difference before spending any money.

I also think you'd have to recode the EPS module with NCS Expert for the steering stuff to work, but that's easy.

03-04-2017, 03:03 PM	#1453
hassmaschine Major General 3987 Rep 7,212 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	For $600.... Sure.
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03-04-2017, 03:31 PM	#1455
hassmaschine Major General 3987 Rep 7,212 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	For now.. I didn't even pay $100 for two MSV80 test DMEs, so $600 to recover one is a stretch. But it does at least reflect the difficulty of doing so. The MPC5xx based computers are trivial to recover.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-04-2017, 03:52 PM	#1457
hassmaschine Major General 3987 Rep 7,212 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	I'm really not trying to argue with you. I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. The point is we are still early in testing this stuff - if you brick your DME flashing a "free" tune, it's going to cost you something to repair it. Either a new DME or maybe a week's downtime while you pay several hundred to repair the bricked computer. Maybe not a big deal for my $35 used test computer, but for somebody who only has one car and needs it to get to work - it can be an issue.
	Appreciate 1 Dan Bilzerian355.50 Quote

03-04-2017, 04:21 PM	#1458
JohnG7 Private 16 Rep 58 Posts Drives: E89 + F30 Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: south of Houston... iTrader: (0)	Thanks guys, you both answered it covering pretty much what we'd face. Is my DD, but could ride the Harley if forced to (but am in no rush to drop much cash). I'll leave the testing to you guys till you feel is safe. Losing use of my car would be an annoyance. I thought I'd bricked this MSV80 once, is not a good feeling. Till then, will read the progress as it happens- am still hoping AA releases their updated tune since that could affect my car. Either way, this work is going to help many owners.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-05-2017, 08:24 PM	#1459
rjahl Colonel 1002 Rep 2,287 Posts Drives: Z4 35is Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tampa iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 Z4 35is [0.00]	Transmission flash For those of you who updated their engine from a 325 to 330++ with an automatic transmission . You really need to update the transmission calibration file to the 330 version. Just consider it part of the process, you can thank me later. I have 40,000+ miles on the updated Engine tune but just did the transmission today, (long story) so far it's a huge difference in normal driving. It's clear to me that the shift maps are now more closely aligned to the engine torque curves. In particular 2>3 shift with a light throttle does not happen right on top of 1>2. I've only done a few milk runs so I'm still learning what changed but I don't expect any changes in the rev limiters or shift speeds. I've already compared those in the Bin and they are the same. More to come.....
	Appreciate 1 BimmerGeeks1180.00 Quote

03-06-2017, 08:13 AM	#1460
Terraphantm Captain 253 Rep 775 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Coupe Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: N/A iTrader: (1)	325s and 328s come with GM transmissions though instead of ZF.
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03-06-2017, 08:39 AM	#1461
Terraphantm Captain 253 Rep 775 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Coupe Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: N/A iTrader: (1)	Oh cool they should be good to go then. The 328 guys are SOL I guess unless they do a transmission swap (at which point you may as well do a manual conversion). For the ZF guys, I think I would also try the pre-LCI 630i (euro) software.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-06-2017, 09:41 AM	#1462
hassmaschine Major General 3987 Rep 7,212 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	Why do you think GM flashes are impossible? They're both MPC5xx based AFAIK? At least, it was in the technical spec / contract somebody posted a while back.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-06-2017, 01:52 PM	#1466
hassmaschine Major General 3987 Rep 7,212 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	it's inside the transmission, so it wouldn't probably matter. Except I think it also interfaces with EWS, so it would probably be in limp mode if it starts at all.
	Appreciate 1 anjuna316.00 Quote

03-08-2017, 11:45 AM	#1470
hassmaschine Major General 3987 Rep 7,212 Posts Drives: "NBO" 330i Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: earth iTrader: (0)	well there you go - it's good to have options. but to be clear - you can't change the EWS4 secret key on a used DME - you would write that instead to the CAS, right? But if something happened to the boot code, program or data, you could repair that sort of failure?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-09-2017, 07:21 PM	#1471
rjahl Colonel 1002 Rep 2,287 Posts Drives: Z4 35is Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Tampa iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 Z4 35is [0.00]	Transmission Flash While maybe a subject for a new thread, I'll bring this up again I've run the higher HP version of the ZF tune for a few hundred miles and I can say the following: 1. If you have an automatic and upgraded your intake and tune, you will like the upgraded file for the transmission as well! 2. While I expected some changes to the shift maps, I was not really expecting them to be an improvement. I was wrong, In the Economy maps, the spacing between gear shifts 2-3 are much better. Sport mode is actually fun to use. 3. Torque management, its clear to me that the torque converter clutch is working differently, Transitions are smother yet firmer. I have not found the map in the Calibration file that is affecting this but it's a clear improvement. It's also affecting the feel of the higher loaded shifts. They are much more positive. At this point, I don't know if this the the designed slip in the torque converter or the torque reduction requests made by the TCU. I have enough of the pressure regulator maps located to know that it's probably not the gear clutch pressure. If things go as planned, I'll break this into a new thread soon.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-09-2017, 07:30 PM	#1472
Terraphantm Captain 253 Rep 775 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Coupe Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: N/A iTrader: (1)	If you haven't already, you should try retrofitting the sport button. Z4s are all pre-wired for it already and the DME tune already has all the appropriate bytes flipped. Sport mode is also supposed to influence shift behavior on Z4s.
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03-09-2017, 07:38 PM	#1474
Terraphantm Captain 253 Rep 775 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Coupe Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: N/A iTrader: (1)	Yep. I quite liked the throttle difference after getting it to work on my 330i (though I do wonder if the difference would be less pronounced on a valvetronic engine). I can't comment on transmission or steering since my 330 is a manual and has hydraulic steering. It should be like a 10 minute retrofit since everything is prewired. Switch is overpriced at $50, but at least it has the factory fit/finish. If you dig out the connector and momentarily connect a resistor between ground and the trigger pin (resistance has to be somewhere between 3.5kΩ and 18kΩ; I used 10k), you can trigger sport mode that way to see if you notice a difference before spending any money. I also think you'd have to recode the EPS module with NCS Expert for the steering stuff to work, but that's easy. Last edited by Terraphantm; 03-09-2017 at 07:52 PM..
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