[Sniz]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

So why did he not use CPS offsetting to adjust timing?

2 answers

1) not using it aka not controlling timing at all is better

2) Terry could not figure it out at the time. he sold a bunch of tunes by swearing up and down that its not necessary or his tunes actually do control timing just not w CPS. he put himself in the position that adding it in would show bad form in his market position and piss off current/past customers. A position he still sticks to.


who knows.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Sniz

2 answers

1) not using it aka not controlling timing at all is better

2) Terry could not figure it out at the time. he sold a bunch of tunes by swearing up and down that its not necessary or his tunes actually do control timing just not w CPS. he put himself in the position that adding it in would show bad form in his market position and piss off current/past customers. A position he still sticks to.


who knows.

Well at least he is using it for the pro board. I wish it would just be added to the normal JB4. It is obviously needed.

[TheTwinz]

You know what, I think there is enough information here for anyone to draw their own conclusions and form their own opinions on what tune is best suited for them..
Theres no need to continue this topic except to keep talking crap about one particular product. If you hate the JB so much and what it does to the engine, then instead of trying to expose their shortcomings, why not just sit back and watch all the engines blow up and laugh at everyone who didn't do their research. That would be fun to watch.

Arguing about it is moot. Trying to prove the JB damages engines is also moot without real proof. So this thread should just end, and lets just wait and see how many damaged cars or problems with JB threads pop up in the coming months/years.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by rgpwr

Key here is 2007...I could learn to pilot a space shuttle in 4 years, much less create a tune.

That being said, I don't like what I'm seeing from the JB4 side or the Procede side lately. Cobb is definitely on the right track. They're going to take over this market very soon I think.

and if they would have come out with 07 software, i'd be a "Cobb Guy".

i like my JB4 though, but there should be no reason why i can't get swayed when Cobb gets off their asses, HAHA !!!!

i'm a HUGE Cobb supporter.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by TheTwinz

You know what, I think there is enough information here for anyone to draw their own conclusions and form their own opinions on what tune is best suited for them..
Theres no need to continue this topic except to keep talking crap about one particular product. If you hate the JB so much and what it does to the engine, then instead of trying to expose their shortcomings, why not just sit back and watch all the engines blow up and laugh at everyone who didn't do their research. That would be fun to watch.

Arguing about it is moot. Trying to prove the JB damages engines is also moot without real proof. So this thread should just end, and lets just wait and see how many damaged cars or problems with JB threads pop up in the coming months/years.

all of this.......

[e92bmw]

Theres no reason to shut down this thread just because its stating true facts.

[Dmacc]

Originally Posted by beemw

Theres no reason to shut down this thread just because its stating true facts.

I'm still waiting for someone to post proof that knock ISN'T bad...

[fisherbln]

Originally Posted by beemw

Theres no reason to shut down this thread just because its stating true facts.

While there have been a few insults in the thread, the vast majority of this thread has been facts. If you don't like this thread, then don't read it. Pretty simple.

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by Sniz

damn Scott good pull out of the archives

best post in that thread:





what we learn from this. Terry does realize that pulling timing is a good idea when adding boost on pump gas....to any car.

interesting.........


a lot has changed w n54's since 2007 but the basic logic of tuning has not.........everyone agree on this?

EPIC post - wow, this goes down in history

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

This is the technical forum... there is technical post in this thread.

If it were to be closed, it would have been a long time ago.

[e92bmw]

Originally Posted by Dmacc

I'm still waiting for someone to post proof that knock ISN'T bad...

Well your going to have to wait a lifetime for that. For now just grab some popcorn an a beer and lets see how incityphoto(i think thats his name) is going to defend his thesis that knock isnt bad....

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by themyst

my 335 is a race car! vroom!

they missed my sarcasm... but I see you thar

[biz77]

Originally Posted by RambleJ

So what you are saying is that if you would throw the same type of tune JB3/4 on a Mazda or Subie with no timing control aside from the stock form, they would have lasted this long? Come on now! Gimme a break
At least admit that there is some differences and admit that this ECU can handle what is being done to it.

For perspective, a tuned N54 is running similar boost to a stock Subaru. Run your N54 with 20psi on pump gas, which is not uncommon for stage II (still on stock turbo) STIs, and let me know how it holds up relying on a stock timing map and the factory knock control system alone to get timing "right." It's not that the N54 is out-of-this-World strong or that the DME is uncanny in its ability to detect and control knock. It is the fact that very few have pushed the platform to its limits. Most of the "thousands" of JB users are running pump gas maps that run equivalent boost to other completely stock turbocharged platforms. Do you think this could be the reason behind a small number of reported failures?

[Clap135]

jb4 autotune dyno, anyone notice that it looks like complete shit?

[Black Gold]

Is that a 16+ AFR????

[TakeOne]

Originally Posted by Clap135

[IMG]
jb4 autotune dyno, anyone notice that it looks like complete shit?

can you post your dyno...

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by Sniz

2 answers

1) not using it aka not controlling timing at all is better

2) Terry could not figure it out at the time. he sold a bunch of tunes by swearing up and down that its not necessary or his tunes actually do control timing just not w CPS. he put himself in the position that adding it in would show bad form in his market position and piss off current/past customers. A position he still sticks to.


who knows.

Over in the thread on N54 about some dude getting banned here, I requested Terry make a one time thread over there addressing the subject of timing and why he tunes the N54 the way he does.

His reply was they discuss this topic all the time and he has posts all over at the N54 and boost forums discussing the subject. I suggested people shouldn't have to spend hours upon hours scouring the web for his methodology and reasons for doing what he does, and putting it in one place would be good for everyone.

Then he simply replies with a copy/paste of his and now Mike's standard response that the DME does the job on its own, and how they have 5000 tunes blah blah blah.

I wanted him to specifically address the concept of timing and FI tuning, and why he does not control timing, yet every tuner out there does and believes it is essential to do such with the N54.

The problem, he has himself so far into this entire idea, his business, his reputation, his ego, his pride and so forth, that he can't go back now and implement what EVERY TUNER does with FI on the N54....control timing directly.

It would be a huge "We told you so!" fiesta, and hypocritically situation that his precious ego/pride couldn't handle, and maybe his business would fall sharply off.

And frankly, why should be put himself out there and at risk when he has thousands of fools who will buy the cheapo poor implemented solution he offers now.

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by techlogik

It would be a huge "We told you so!" fiesta, and hypocritically situation that his precious ego/pride couldn't handle, and maybe his business would fall sharply off.

The sad thing is though---as long as it's a hundred bucks cheaper, it's going to sell.

[BrianMN]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...826#post764826

This is one of my favorites....

[Jake@MOTIV]

Originally Posted by Terry335

In doing a little research here, it looks like all you need to do to adjust the boost level is to manipulate the MAP signal. Is it a standard 2 bar (0-5v) type sensor? Has anyone (that isn't trying to make money off it) tried this yet?

I know going crazy without adjusting the target AF ratios and/or timing would be silly, but it sounds like you can get away with a nice 2-3psi bump with the stock setup.

Brian - that post is win.

Whoa. How can he not comment when this is up?

So - Terry understands tuning fact and theory. He obviously does as stated in this post from:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...826#post764826

that thread. He just chose not to implement it I am guessing because the processor/board they use to make the jb3/4 can not handle it? So instead of designing the board to fit the need...the tune is simply whatever the board can handle. Yikes.

[scottp999]

Yes, that's a good one. I also enjoy the one from 4/2007 where Terry was trying to get into Shiv's maps so he could make his own adjustments (I'm sure not to reverse engineer). The maps kept coming up blank, but he was encouraging someone to find out how to get them to load using a hex editor so getting into Shiv's maps (the fruits of his labor and the basis of his business) would happen.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58131

Originally Posted by Terry335

Hey gang,

Got a little bored so I did some research on the Haltech Interceptor (procede). It looks like you can download software for creating maps here:

http://haltech.com/downloads.htm

The file is called “Interceptor v1.08”. You can also grab the wiring diagram and manual if you’re so inclined. Once you load the software you’ll notice it’s identical to the procede reader software, only the procede reader software has a few menu options blocked and they’ve changed the file extension from .IMP to .PCD.

I tried to load a few of the procede maps floating around after changing the extension but they load up blank. Someone (or me, if I get more time), needs to open each file in a hex editor and compare the differences. It’s probably some minor adjustment.

Anyway I wouldn’t suggest anyone attempt to build a custom map or change your map unless you know what you’re doing, but those of you who like this kind of thing can see what the Interceptor is all about.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by scottp999

Yes, that's a good one. I also enjoy the one from 4/2007 where Terry was trying to get into Shiv's maps so he could make his own adjustments (I'm sure not to reverse engineer). The maps kept coming up blank, but he was encouraging someone to find out how to get them to load using a hex editor so getting into Shiv's maps (the fruits of his labor and the basis of his business) would happen.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58131

saw that one too, i'm sure he got into them eventually, couldnt be that hard.