[Kev0]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

I see your used oil analysis thread. Both good reports from users of 0w40 and 5w40.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by Kev0

I've been using Mobil/Castrol 0w40 but recently (this past weekend), my mechanic replaced my oil pan gasket due to a minor leak and he used LiquiMoly 5w40. I usually request that he uses Mobil 0w40 but since he keep LiquiMoly in stock, I decided to try it. After picking up the car yesterday, I must say that I definitely feel a difference with 5w40. I can hear the difference with cold start and the idle and drive was much smoother. Definitely not a placebo effect. Any cons running 5w40? I'm thinking about permanently switching from Mobil/Castrol 0w40 to Liqui Moly 5w40 from this experience alone.

Thank you for sharing ur non placebo experience but honestly all are approved so lets not have that discussion right now. Use whatever tickles ur soul.

[Kev0]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Thank you for sharing ur non placebo experience but honestly all are approved so lets not have that discussion right now. Use whatever tickles ur soul.

Sounds good. I was just curious if there was any differences since oil was brought up related to the bearings. My bad to be

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by Kev0

Sounds good. I was just curious if there was any differences since oil was brought up related to the bearings. My bad to be

No problem. The issue is everyone will tell you something different. My opinion so far is the thinnest oil possible which is LL-01 or greater cert. That would be the BMW 0w-30. Even though i run 0w-40. 5W-40 from Liqui Moly is a great oil and will run great on top end. But bottom end likes thinner oil.. Even though you loose more oil when its thin. 5W-40 is thickest oil that is approved.

I am using not very proper terminology but you get the point.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

I would be curious if MoS2 additives will help alleviate rod bearing wear. From the research I've done, MoS2 may have positive benefits to reduce engine wear.

[hassmaschine]

Modern oils have hardly any ZDDP in them because it supposedly damages the cats. But it is excellent at protecting metal surfaces that rub together..

Mobil 1 5w40 turbo diesel truck is the only oil I can think of that has a higher level of ZDDP (I think 1200ppm) that might work in the N5x. Most oils for modern engines now are probably half that.

It's rated for gas and diesel engines (I used to run it in my M20). It's really hard to find though, I always bought all of it whenever walmart had it in stock.

Obviously it's not LL-01 but honestly, who cares.. it's not like the piss water oil BMW uses now is doing our engines any favors.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Modern oils have hardly any ZDDP in them because it supposedly damages the cats. But it is excellent at protecting metal surfaces that rub together..

Mobil 1 5w40 turbo diesel truck is the only oil I can think of that has a higher level of ZDDP (I think 1200ppm) that might work in the N5x. Most oils for modern engines now are probably half that.

It's rated for gas and diesel engines (I used to run it in my M20). It's really hard to find though, I always bought all of it whenever walmart had it in stock.

Obviously it's not LL-01 but honestly, who cares.. it's not like the piss water oil BMW uses now is doing our engines any favors.

The problem with high ZDDP is that it is also attributed to cold start engine wear. ZDDP only becomes and effective additive when the engine is at operating temperature which is one of the reasons it's better suited for race oils and not oils used in street cars that see frequent start/stops. It's there in race oils for anti-seizure protection under load.

I can't find the whitepaper I read that conclusion in, but, here is a snippet from Amsoil on why ZDDP is important:

"ZDDP anti-wear additives are heat-activated, meaning they provide wear protection in areas of increased friction. In this case, it’s at the cam lobe/tappet interface. The additives form a sacrificial layer on part surfaces, which absorbs contact and helps prevent cam and tappet wear. That way, your engine makes maximum power and lasts as designed."

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

The problem with high ZDDP is that it is also attributed to cold start engine wear. ZDDP only becomes and effective additive when the engine is at operating temperature which is one of the reasons it's better suited for race oils and not oils used in street cars that see frequent start/stops. It's there in race oils for anti-seizure protection under load.

I can't find the whitepaper I read that conclusion in, but, here is a snippet from Amsoil on why ZDDP is important:

"ZDDP anti-wear additives are heat-activated, meaning they provide wear protection in areas of increased friction. In this case, it’s at the cam lobe/tappet interface. The additives form a sacrificial layer on part surfaces, which absorbs contact and helps prevent cam and tappet wear. That way, your engine makes maximum power and lasts as designed."

I see some people mention "freqeunt start tops". What is considered that?

Is starting and stopping you car 2 times a day frequent?

[hassmaschine]

I ran oils with way higher ZDDP than the one I posted above for years and 100,000's of miles. Never had a problem. Maybe if you're a delivery driver or something, you would do a lot of cold starts, but even then it's not like your engine cools off that quickly.

starting it cold twice a day (presumably in the morning and afternoon, to and from work), I wouldn't consider 'frequent'.

And obviously, there is already bearing wear.. so. :|

[9krpmrx8]

I would say twice a day is frequent, but surely many people do much more and I know guys that have admitted that most of the time they never even get the oil up to full temp because all they do is short trips for most of the cars life. I mean I am half way to work (14 mile commute) before my oil temp moves from 160F.

Our local M guru believes that short trips are the death to bearings in all the S54's, S65's, and S85's he replaces them on. He says the car he sees that make it north of 100k are not short trip cars, but cars that get taken out and warmed up. He thinks the 10W-60 just doesn't have time to warm up properly on short trips and that is here in South Texas. But owners also lie so he says it's hard to get accurate info.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8

I would say twice a day is frequent, but surely many people do much more and I know guys that have admitted that most of the time they never even get the oil up to full temp because all they do is short trips for most of the cars life. I mean I am half way to work (14 mile commute) before my oil temp moves from 160F.

Our local M guru believes that short trips are the death to bearings in all the S54's, S65's, and S85's he replaces them on. He says the car he sees that make it north of 100k are not short trip cars, but cars that get taken out and warmed up. He thinks the 10W-60 just doesn't have time to warm up properly on short trips and that is here in South Texas. But owners also lie so he says it's hard to get accurate info.

.
Yeah well this winter my oil temp barely hits operating, I can get it 176f if I use my car to work when it's to cold to take the bus but the days I instead drive to the bus parking my temp needle doesn't move at all.

But the short trip theory don't make sense in my book tho. If you drive for 5 mins the car doesn't warm up I agree. But so as the first 5 minutes of your 15 minute trip, no? Like yes if you gun in in the 5 minutes ok but if I don't get it high RPM so technically what is the issue.

[hassmaschine]

cold starts cause engine wear anyway - I don't see any reason to worry about additives that *may* case wear during cold starts, but add protection when it's warm.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

cold starts cause engine wear anyway - I don't see any reason to worry about additives that *may* case wear during cold starts, but add protection when it's warm.

Here is a technical paper that looks the phenomenon:
https://link.springer.com/article/10...249-018-1115-x

I am just pointing out that there is research out there that extends beyond just looking at ZDDP's affect on the catalytic converter. I will ad mit I only brielfy scanned the above link, but, from what I can see it is a study from 2018 that confirms previous studies that high detergent + zddp = more wear. Even more specifically in GDI engines.

Race oils are low detergent + high zddp hence why they are not suitable for daily driven cars for the exact reasons you see posted above. Most (and I use most in logical way meaning NOT ALL) drivers don't even get their cars up to operating temperature during their daily chores. you need the high levels of detergents in a mass produced street car.

I'm not and expert, just sharing information that you can interpret for yourself.

[hassmaschine]

Race oils also have higher ratios of ZDDP than what I mentioned though - more like 1800ppm, which is much much higher than the levels normally used in a street engine.

Actually, the turbo diesel truck doesn't have much more than the euro formula 0W40. So it's splitting hairs really..

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Race oils also have higher ratios of ZDDP than what I mentioned though - more like 1800ppm, which is much much higher than the levels normally used in a street engine.

Actually, the turbo diesel truck doesn't have much more than the euro formula 0W40. So it's splitting hairs really..

So you think 200ppm more zddp is going to prevent wear? I assumed you were talking about wanting to run a race oil as you were referencing how oil industry has reduced zinc in all shelf oils. Running a diesel oil with a hair more zinc isn't going to make a lick of difference (my opinion). Then you need to worry about whether that diesel oil is formulated well for use in a direct injected gasoline engine. Splitting hairs is right lol

[9krpmrx8]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

.
Yeah well this winter my oil temp barely hits operating, I can get it 176f if I use my car to work when it's to cold to take the bus but the days I instead drive to the bus parking my temp needle doesn't move at all.

But the short trip theory don't make sense in my book tho. If you drive for 5 mins the car doesn't warm up I agree. But so as the first 5 minutes of your 15 minute trip, no? Like yes if you gun in in the 5 minutes ok but if I don't get it high RPM so technically what is the issue.

Yeah I mean romping on it when cold just adds to the wear I would guess. I typically just drive normally in drive and keep it under 3000RPM until the it moves off of 160F and then for the next 7 miles to work or home I beat on her pretty good. Obviously when it is 100F+ plus out for almost half the year it takes much less time for it to get to 160F+.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

So you think 200ppm more zddp is going to prevent wear? I assumed you were talking about wanting to run a race oil as you were referencing how oil industry has reduced zinc in all shelf oils. Running a diesel oil with a hair more zinc isn't going to make a lick of difference (my opinion). Then you need to worry about whether that diesel oil is formulated well for use in a direct injected gasoline engine. Splitting hairs is right lol

Yeah, I don't know - the 0W40 I normally run is 1000ppm, but I don't know what the LL-01 rated oils are (probably lower). It could make a difference, but there's not really a way for any of us to prove that.

No, I wasn't recommending a race oil for the street.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

Yeah, I don't know - the 0W40 I normally run is 1000ppm, but I don't know what the LL-01 rated oils are (probably lower). It could make a difference, but there's not really a way for any of us to prove that.

No, I wasn't recommending a race oil for the street.

Blackstone UOA for Castrol edge EU LL-01 0-40 is showing 959ppm zinc

I see VOA/UOA's for Rotella T6 putting zinc at 1000-1300ppm:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...la_T6_May_2017

I also see it has much higher Calcium which is no bueno for LSPI. Just about every shelf gasoline engine oil has reduced sodium to damn near 0 and reduced calcium to around 1000ppm in favor of more magnesium. Rotella does not look to have made the calcium/magnesium change as it's a diesel oil.

Using that as an example as that is everyone's favorite go-to diesel oil. Not sure which you referenced specifically though.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

The problem with high ZDDP is that it is also attributed to cold start engine wear. ZDDP only becomes and effective additive when the engine is at operating temperature which is one of the reasons it's better suited for race oils and not oils used in street cars that see frequent start/stops. It's there in race oils for anti-seizure protection under load.

I can't find the whitepaper I read that conclusion in, but, here is a snippet from Amsoil on why ZDDP is important:

"ZDDP anti-wear additives are heat-activated, meaning they provide wear protection in areas of increased friction. In this case, it’s at the cam lobe/tappet interface. The additives form a sacrificial layer on part surfaces, which absorbs contact and helps prevent cam and tappet wear. That way, your engine makes maximum power and lasts as designed."

This is very true. ZDDP is old tech for old engines and hot rods. In DI engines its actually bad.

[Supra2k6]

Does MHD log oil pressure?

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Supra2k6

Does MHD log oil pressure?

Yes, but, the N55 has an oil pump with a lot of overhead volume and it can electronically control the oil pressure. You won't generally see anything other then the car dead on target except maybe at idle. You can probably run straight 0wt oil and still maintain 80psi at 7000rpm.

[weehe126]

Just as a data point I have been using 5w-40 Rotella T6 for the last 78k miles. My last oil change was my first oil report. Sodium - 8, calcium - 2117, magnesium - 170, phosphorus - 1061, zinc - 1209