[epiphone3]

Jim... a few questions for you.

I've always looked at you as a good quality tuner in the like of guys like Dinan. Even though I don't know what kind of testing you do and that sort of thing, I just assume it is high quality because you have the back up of guys like Will Turner, etc.

Question: You are the expert, in my opinion, why not just send us the tune which is good and safe and supply the shark injector with that? I guess what I am really asking is, do you feel like giving this tune-ability to the injector will be a bad can of worms for most inexperienced users?

Another Question: Can you PM me about the possibility of providing me with a Shark Injector that can reflash my 2006 E90 323i to the BMW Eurospec for the 2006 E90 325i?? Also, I have a potential Canadian contact for you for distribution (if you are interested, I can put you in touch with him or him with you). By the way, all I really want in regards to software is the OEM Eurospec.

Thanks for this. Very interesting work. Have you read Steve Dinan's paper on dyno-ing the modern BMW yet?

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

Jim... a few questions for you.

I've always looked at you as a good quality tuner in the like of guys like Dinan. Even though I don't know what kind of testing you do and that sort of thing, I just assume it is high quality because you have the back up of guys like Will Turner, etc.

Question: You are the expert, in my opinion, why not just send us the tune which is good and safe and supply the shark injector with that? I guess what I am really asking is, do you feel like giving this tune-ability to the injector will be a bad can of worms for most inexperienced users?

Another Question: Can you PM me about the possibility of providing me with a Shark Injector that can reflash my 2006 E90 323i to the BMW Eurospec for the 2006 E90 325i?? Also, I have a potential Canadian contact for you for distribution (if you are interested, I can put you in touch with him or him with you).

Thanks for this. Very interesting work. Have you read Steve Dinan's paper on dyno-ing the modern BMW yet?

He does supply it with that. He sells the SharkEDIT, for people who want to do their own. And a SharkINJECTOR with his base tune that provides 80hp and 100trq @12psi.....

[Orb]

Originally Posted by Jeff@Eurobahn.us

I can't speak for other products but ours has been tested and we do not leave codes. What is really scarry is releasing a DME editor that anyone can start messing around with code.

Since this DME counts updates this is going to be interesting. And the idea that Magnusson Moss protects this is rediculous. The minute you touch the code in this car you are in violation of proprietory licenses.

Bimmerfest was a blast this year and hello to everyone who stopped by A big thank you to our Turbo Tuner installer Danny who spent the whole day doing installs!

Jeff
Eurobahn

Jeff, yet again you keep posting ridiculous made up statements about your competitors. Honestly, you peddle nothing more than a resistor box and your resource for actually real validation don’t exist. I guess you’re allowed to have your last plug before the inevitable death for SSTT in the BMW market.

Orb

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Orb

Jeff, yet again you keep posting ridiculous made up statements about your competitors. Honestly, you peddle nothing more than a resistor box and your resource for actually real validation don’t exist. I guess you’re allowed to have your last plug before the inevitable death for SSTT in the BMW market.

Orb

Whoa. To be honest no one is sure about this flash counter in the ECU and Jim hasnt addressed it but to say, "it is all good". So who knows if the dealership can tell the car has been flashed "X" numbers of times....

Regardless, it does seem to be the end for >$300 piggybacks. I still think there will be a market but the price will be much much lower.....

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

yup i used a COBB on my car aswell. flashed her a couple times and my dealer use to brek my balls on it aswell, even after i unmarried the COBB from my car.

so the Shark edit will not leave UPDATES or FLASH counters behind for bmw to see? of any sort or anything that the DME was accessed?

im really scared of this esp when using this same feature on my sti when i first got it, just ended up going with the COBB after that for safety reasons and using that for th rest of its life, im guessing that is where the SHark injector comes in.?

Looking at what Jim wrote about field mapping, it sounds like the Shark device replaces blocks of code directly in the ECU, which is not a true flash since you are not using the ECU's utility.

It would be very hard for anyone to detect direct memory / file mapping.

You have to know your sh*t to do what Jim is doing and he clearly knows his stuff.

I have more than an active curiousity on this but I don't really need to know the answers via a public forum.

Go get'um Jim.

Make sure you let the M5board guys know what you are up to. There are many members there who are doing headers that would love to get access to the ECUs. See the thread I started yesterday....

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho....php?p=1321361

Good luck!

[Kerosene Hat]

Does anyone care to speculate what legitimate (non-pirated) maps will go for?

$300 for SharkEdit

$100 per map?

Or....LESS?????

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Kerosene Hat

Does anyone care to speculate what legitimate (non-pirated) maps will go for?

$300 for SharkEdit

$100 per map?

Or....LESS?????

I have a feeling it will be like copyright protection, once someone figures out how to remove it they will be free for the taking.....

Just my guess....

[johnnymu]

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

I have a feeling it will be like copyright protection, once someone figures out how to remove it they will be free for the taking.....

Just my guess....

Honestly, I hope this doesn't happen on the fact that you should support someone like Jim C.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

Honestly, I hope this doesn't happen on the fact that you should support someone like Jim C.

Jim would make his money regardless, you buy the sharkeditor. The people that would be out money would be the tuners who design the maps....

I support Jim completely, and he deserves to make money from this invention. Plus, I didnt say that I hope that happens, I said that it is probably what will happen. Same thing that happened with CDs, DVDs, Computer games, Computer applications, etc....

That is just how it works....

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

Jim would make his money regardless, you buy the sharkeditor. The people that would be out money would be the tuners who design the maps....

I support Jim completely, and he deserves to make money from this invention. Plus, I didnt say that I hope that happens, I said that it is probably what will happen. Same thing that happened with CDs, DVDs, Computer games, Computer applications, etc....

That is just how it works....

You can't stop piracy but we sure as heck can make people unconfortable in our little community.

Totally agree about supporting people like Jim C. If they don't make money at this then they do something else.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by T Bone

You can't stop piracy but we sure as heck can make people unconfortable in our little community.

Totally agree about supporting people like Jim C. If they don't make money at this then they do something else.

+100 T Bone....

[johnnymu]

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

Jim would make his money regardless, you buy the sharkeditor. The people that would be out money would be the tuners who design the maps....

I support Jim completely, and he deserves to make money from this invention. Plus, I didnt say that I hope that happens, I said that it is probably what will happen. Same thing that happened with CDs, DVDs, Computer games, Computer applications, etc....

That is just how it works....

Sadly, I know this is how it works. Just perhaps it could be kept more privately where doesn't give everyone such a blackeye. Not attacking, just what you don't know doesn't hurt you.

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by johnnymu

Sadly, I know this is how it works. Just perhaps it could be kept more privately where doesn't give everyone such a blackeye. Not attacking, just what you don't know doesn't hurt you.

Ignorance is bliss, as they say.....

[5soko]

Originally Posted by Orb

Jeff, yet again you keep posting ridiculous made up statements about your competitors. Honestly, you peddle nothing more than a resistor box and your resource for actually real validation don’t exist. I guess you’re allowed to have your last plug before the inevitable death for SSTT in the BMW market.

Orb

what is he making up about his competitors, he is just trying to add to the convo here.

People are gonna arise who think they are tuners lol just like the evo and sti world and are gonna be shot down.(either blowing up engines or causing some kind of failuers) giving this gateway to the wrong hands can be dangerous. but in the right hands can be awesome for highly tuned cars.

does the ECU not count updates and flashs? im interested in this.

People wonder why tuners are trying to stay away from the forums.
sounds like the death of dinan really.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

what is he making up about his competitors, he is just trying to add to the convo here.

People are gonna arise who think they are tuners lol just like the evo and sti world and are gonna be shot down.(either blowing up engines or causing some kind of failuers) giving this gateway to the wrong hands can be dangerous. but in the right hands can be awesome for highly tuned cars.

does the ECU not count updates and flashs? im interested in this.

People wonder why tuners are trying to stay away from the forums.
sounds like the death of dinan really.

The counter question was answered by Jim already so it seems to be a non issue. All the tuners are going to take a hit with this including Dinan.

Orb

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Amir87

What I'm scared of is, the flash leaving traces in the v80 DME. I had my warranty voided on my STi because they found out I had a COBB flash even when I had flashed it back to stock maps.

So is this any better at invisibility then piggys?

Why shouldn't we worry about a flash counter?

You DO have to worry about anything that will trigger the flash counter. I have already seen a warranty voided by a BMW field service engineer because of a DME flash count discrepency. I have an idea, what about getting a DME from a totalled 335i at the junkyard and using that for all your flashing? You could keep your original intact. Although the DME is coded to your vin, so probably all the different parameters involved might cause conflict due to the different vehicle orders, progman version, etc. But if that would work, it would be great. Do what you want with the junkyard DME, or even if you have to buy a new one coded to your car as a backup? Cost some big bucks, but with a reprogrammable DME platform it might be worth it to have a second DME. I would rather pay for a new DME than $1300+ for a piggyback. Funny thing though is BMW would suddenly see a spike in BMW sales, and coded to the owner's VIN number. And what reason would a customer have to buy a DME when they are normally covered by factory warranty for quite a long period of time...just brainstorming here...in time someone will figure out a fool proof way im sure.

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

what is he making up about his competitors, he is just trying to add to the convo here.

People are gonna arise who think they are tuners lol just like the evo and sti world and are gonna be shot down.(either blowing up engines or causing some kind of failuers) giving this gateway to the wrong hands can be dangerous. but in the right hands can be awesome for highly tuned cars.

does the ECU not count updates and flashs? im interested in this.

People wonder why tuners are trying to stay away from the forums.
sounds like the death of dinan really.

What are you talking about? The quality of tuning available for the Evo went UP significantly after people could see what was being put on their ECUs. There were many "amateur" tuners who taught the "pros" a thing or two about proper tuning. Just because one gets paid to tune cars does not mean they are the pinnacle of the industry.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

sounds like the death of dinan really.

Not really. I'd bet the farm that the majority of people who got the Dinan flash got it because it was easy power, and they didn't have to do anything themselves. The people on this forum, many who know enough about tuning or would like to tune their own car with Shark Edit, are not a good representative sample of most 335i owners.

Dinan does 200 flashes a month. There aren't even 25 people on this board with the Dinan flash.

Maybe Dinan will start doing 175 flashes a month. Don't forget that Dinan still has the advantage of being dealer-affiliated.

[lndshrk]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

You DO have to worry about anything that will trigger the flash counter. I have already seen a warranty voided by a BMW field service engineer because of a DME flash count discrepency.

No, you saw someone void someones warranty via B.S.

There is no "flash count discrepency".

There could be a PART NUMBER discrepency - or a Reference discrepency.

Like I said before - I've been flashing BMW's for 11 years now.

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by undecided

You bought the car, agreed to terms of the warranty but you don't think twice robbing them $10K-$20K that it would take to fix a blown up motor. Would you mug your SA and take $20K off his pockets? Isn't this mess going to come back and haunt all of future BMW sales? Isn't BMW going to prevent any more turbos from coming to the US if this gets out of hand? Guys, it's not as simple as most here think. The economics of massive warranty liability are too great to fathom.

First off, if anything these mods only increase the sales of BMW's turbo line.
Second - the electronic safety's and stock turbo size limits the power making it nearly impossible to blow this motor with just a tune. The stock turbos are probably only able to push an additional ~150hp based on Shiv's testing.
Third - BMW has been selling an Alpina version of this car in Europe which pushes the very same turbos from our stock 8.8psi all the way to 16psi.
So, I think you can put all your fear mongering aside and enjoy the ride

[5soko]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Not really. I'd bet the farm that the majority of people who got the Dinan flash got it because it was easy power, and they didn't have to do anything themselves. The people on this forum, many who know enough about tuning or would like to tune their own car with Shark Edit, are not a good representative sample of most 335i owners.

Dinan does 200 flashes a month. There aren't even 25 people on this board with the Dinan flash.

Maybe Dinan will start doing 175 flashes a month. Don't forget that Dinan still has the advantage of being dealer-affiliated.

that was just a direct response to that members response. but i do agree of your thought and the majority of the tunning from people, i was tryin to explain that, but it went to waste earlier.

Originally Posted by A418t81

What are you talking about? The quality of tuning available for the Evo went UP significantly after people could see what was being put on their ECUs. There were many "amateur" tuners who taught the "pros" a thing or two about proper tuning. Just because one gets paid to tune cars does not mean they are the pinnacle of the industry.

im not gonna sit here and argue, not sure where you get your info, but its okay, the same will play out on this forum within the next few months.
i rather have a person who has being tunning for years and different cars rather than a person who can dial a car in within what he thinks is right. cmon.
ill be waiting for Jim's map or his injector to see how that plays out.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by lndshrk

No, you saw someone void someones warranty via B.S.

There is no "flash count discrepency".

There could be a PART NUMBER discrepency - or a Reference discrepency.

Like I said before - I've been flashing BMW's for 11 years now.

So you are basically saying that it will not trigger the flash counter at all, or in a way that the BMW FSE will detect discrepencies? How many flashes are 335i Control units capable of before they have to be replaced? I wonder if BMW built in this limit to prevent people from constantly reflashing their cars to stock when they take it in for warranty service.

This is a very important issue, as I am sure that BMW is very aware of the ramification of third party flashes as referenced in their latest bulletin to include "piggybacks, tmap devices, and flashes." So whether or not there is a misinterpretation of what constitutes a flash is not what is important here. The fact is you can pretty much assume that BMW will focus on any trace or signature that a reflash leaves, and the WILL definitely be interested in it, and probably will generate bulletins or focus on this kind of thing during a inspection by the FSE. So the question again: How sure are you that there are no traces left that can be detected by BMW NA?

And Jim, nothing against you at all, this is very exciting stuff and I respect your technical expertise. Just playing the devil's advocate here, I have seen BMW deny a $14000+ claim due to modifications on a local 335i, and I'm sure a lot of people here are wondering the same things.