[Driver72]

Yup, exactly as I stated, and exactly as I was told.
They will not, and CAN NOT do the ECU upgrade unless it is NECESSARY to fix your car!!

[NM_BMW]

Originally Posted by Driver72

Yup, exactly as I stated, and exactly as I was told.
They will not, and CAN NOT do the ECU upgrade unless it is NECESSARY to fix your car!!

This is exactly what I thought. Why waste tech hours to do something that doesn't need to be done in the first place. If it had to be done to all of our cars don't you think BMW would just send out a recall to have every DME80 updated to the 29.2? If it was indeed that big of a problem.

BTW if you own the car then you also have to right to refuse whatever service the dealership is going to offer. IT'S YOUR CAR! If you're leased that's another thing.

EDIT: WOO! POST 500! haha now back to the show....

[Antwerp]

So, as long as you never have to take your car in for any kind of problem, then you should be fine.
Sounds like a great strategy...

I remember my M3 being reflashed 3 times from when I bought it new in 2003 to when I sold it end of 2007.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by Antwerp

So, as long as you never have to take your car in for any kind of problem, then you should be fine.
Sounds like a great strategy...

Yea, but thats almost impossible. . . . .

[oc24]

Originally Posted by Driver72

BTW, Shiv this is a great post, but don't you think you give away too much in these detailed posts.
It lets BMW (and your competition) know what measures you are taking to get around their programs, and what they need to then do to either copy that or what they need to do to counter your counter measures!
As BMW AG is concerned (meaning): they will know what YOU know about their program updates as well and therefore can make further changes that you WON'T know about!

I would just do what you do and get around them, but not let ANYONE know what you did or what you know to do it.
Maybe I'm thinking obtusely here, but I'd think the less BMW AG knows what you know the better for you (and therefore your customers!

I was just thinking this same thing driving to work today....

[jdink]

Originally Posted by slubu

I was just thinking this same thing driving to work today....

Worst case scenario BMW figures that it will be cheaper to send Shiv a big pile of cash as hush money instead of update the DME's all the time. He will probably have to knock off Dustin so he doesn't have to share the money and will disapear from these forums forever (which i'm sure he will cry himself to sleep every night over).

[Orient330iNYC]

Originally Posted by Driver72

BTW, Shiv this is a great post, but don't you think you give away too much in these detailed posts.
It lets BMW (and your competition) know what measures you are taking to get around their programs, and what they need to then do to either copy that or what they need to do to counter your counter measures!
As BMW AG is concerned (meaning): they will know what YOU know about their program updates as well and therefore can make further changes that you WON'T know about!

I would just do what you do and get around them, but not let ANYONE know what you did or what you know to do it.
Maybe I'm thinking obtusely here, but I'd think the less BMW AG knows what you know the better for you (and therefore your customers!

i'm pretty sure shortly after its release, BMW AG will have a V3 procede in its workshop to test and reverse engineer.

I can almost guarantee you that in a lab somewhere in munich is every tuning device available on the market.

how do you think they developed the countermeasures?

[Neema]

Originally Posted by jdink

Worst case scenario BMW figures that it will be cheaper to send Shiv a big pile of cash as hush money instead of update the DME's all the time. He will probably have to knock off Dustin so he doesn't have to share the money and will disapear from these forums forever (which i'm sure he will cry himself to sleep every night over).

haha no. . . . that would be awesome for shiv. Why would they pay someone to stop making tunes for their cars when they can just create counter measures against it. Its more like, no one being able to work around the new V81 DME and 29.2 progman, rendering all tunes useless unless you dont mind paying for repairs. That, would drive tuners out of business.

[e.n335]

Interesting discussions ...

I always read in this forum "you have to pay to play" and now, when BMW will know about our tunings everybody worries to loose the warranty.

Guys, you have to stop performance modding or buy the Dinan-flash when you are in the lucky position to be able to get one, living in US/CAN.

E.g. my car has a remaining period of 2 years warranty. I am fully aware about, even when some good guys at my dealership tend to have a selective memory , I will have to pay in case of an engine / turbo / tranny issue where no SIB could cover my case.

Thus I don't race and I drive pretty civilized, the chances are low to break something except I will use a low quality or "sick" tune. That's why I am still evaluating performance tunings and will end up with the Shark Edit, which offers the possibility to me to get a custom tune from a reputable tuner of my choice in case I am not able to get a standard map meeting my expectations. However, a map from JimC himself would be great.

So it's time to walk the talk now.

Cheers,
Eugen

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by Driver72

FWIW, I had to have the taillight bulb housing technical service bulletin done the other day as I got the warning light on my dash.

...

That SA told me they would not flash the new program in unless it was necessary. He told me it was not allowed to mess with the ECU if nothing is wrong on the car. He said, however, if you bring your car in for something that's failed and the only way to fix it is with a program update they HAVE to do it. Otherwise, he states, they will not "fix" what's "not broken" and are not allowed too.

Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but, I have the EXACT same issue (passenger side light housing TSB replacement) and guess what...they are keeping my car for 2 days...to FLASH WITH THE LATEST PROGMAN. When I went to schedule it, the SA looked on the system and said that I'd need to have the "car's software updated...you know for little stuff...nothing you'd even notice...really just a Tire Pressure Monitor fix, but I can see you've never had an issue with that giving a false code anyway".

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by ezatnova

Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but, I have the EXACT same issue (passenger side light housing TSB replacement) and guess what...they are keeping my car for 2 days...to FLASH WITH THE LATEST PROGMAN. When I went to schedule it, the SA looked on the system and said that I'd need to have the "car's software updated...you know for little stuff...nothing you'd even notice...really just a Tire Pressure Monitor fix, but I can see you've never had an issue with that giving a false code anyway".

Very correct communication from BMW . Yeah, dealerships like to flash overnight, thus the update can abend. I have been told the update lasts 4-6 hours, when my car has been updated in Feb. 2008. Very, very slow. Yes, 1984 .

[jdink]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Yeah, dealerships like to flash overnight, thus the update can abend. I have been told the update lasts 4-6 hours, when my car has been updated in Feb. 2008.

So if I take my car in for an Oil change i'll sit there for an hour while it is changed. If i find myself sitting there for more than 3 hours i'm kicking down their door, pulling out my spare key and driving my car off before they finish the update!

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by jdink

So if I take my car in for an Oil change i'll sit there for an hour while it is changed. If i find myself sitting there for more than 3 hours i'm kicking down their door, pulling out my spare key and driving my car off before they finish the update!

This way you will end up with inconststent software. A car has quite some computers and they communicate among each other. In case of changes different components may be involved and have to "learn" the new functions by being updated to an appropriate program version.

[Neema]

going into my dealer today just to have them scan for codes on DME and give me a print out.

Going in with PROcede V3 fully installed, a BMS intake, and a cat back. . . .:finger:

[Neema]

coo coo for coco puffs.

[sirploppy]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

going into my dealer today just to have them scan for codes on DME and give me a print out.

Going in with PROcede V3 fully installed, a BMS intake, and a cat back. . . .:finger:

I like your style... guns blazin'!

[Doc E]

all work must be documented, because that is the invoice that gets sent to BMW.
If you go in for maintenance or something else and software update is not recorded, YOU HAVEN'T received one. Also, if you show up on a busy week i'd bet that they will not update your software. They rather make their money on other labor.
and as far as the TSB-lighting housing replacement-technically because it is an electrical job, your system could be in need of an update.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Very correct communication from BMW . Yeah, dealerships like to flash overnight, thus the update can abend. I have been told the update lasts 4-6 hours, when my car has been updated in Feb. 2008. Very, very slow. Yes, 1984 .

BMW is trying to change this by rationalizing the number concurrent CAN buses as well as moving over to Flexray over time.... Won't happen for some time but they are trying.

[v2bling]

How will i know if they updated my progman? Im picking up my car tomm or the next day for my first service... Thanks .. Please help

[bribro335iA]

This is scary stuff. With the owner's loss of control of software updates BMW can retune/detune the car for any variety of purposes, including to otherwise avoid what may be legitimate warranty claims. For example, let's say that BMW determines that a well-known problem like the fuel pump failures can be all but eliminated if the engine performance is detuned 10%. What would prevent BMW from implementing the detunes through automatic software upgrades and thereby save a ton on dough on warranty repairs? How could an owner prove the car was detuned? Even if it could be proven, does an owner have any legal "right" to preserve the original performance specifications?

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Interesting discussions ...

I always read in this forum "you have to pay to play" and now, when BMW will know about our tunings everybody worries to loose the warranty.

Guys, you have to stop performance modding or buy the Dinan-flash when you are in the lucky position to be able to get one, living in US/CAN.

E.g. my car has a remaining period of 2 years warranty. I am fully aware about, even when some good guys at my dealership tend to have a selective memory , I will have to pay in case of an engine / turbo / tranny issue where no SIB could cover my case.

Thus I don't race and I drive pretty civilized, the chances are low to break something except I will use a low quality or "sick" tune. That's why I am still evaluating performance tunings and will end up with the Shark Edit, which offers the possibility to me to get a custom tune from a reputable tuner of my choice in case I am not able to get a standard map meeting my expectations. However, a map from JimC himself would be great.

So it's time to walk the talk now.

Cheers,
Eugen

Agreed but i dont agree that just because you dont race or drive civilised doesnt mean your car wont get into problems. Problems are a direct function of your luck and the extent of how you modify your car. If you are screwed because of a fuel pump when your mod project is complete albeit everything running well and with zero problems and assuming you are not running 29.2, and you get screwed, that is a real cause for concern. With 29.2, you leave a trace. Now it is up to tuners to advise the e90/e92 crowd on the ways they plan/advise to remove that trace before going into delaerships. It can be charged reasonably as it takes time figuring this out. I am sure Shiv or Terry might find a way around this given they have so far for other things. Its just a matter of time. And some ppl got screwed during this bad timing. Its a vicious circle and it could have happened to anyone.

[Numb3rs]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

going into my dealer today just to have them scan for codes on DME and give me a print out.

Going in with PROcede V3 fully installed, a BMS intake, and a cat back. . . .:finger:

Look where PROcede got you...! I hope Vishnu's warranty covers the cost of your components!