[Meeni]

Originally Posted by NFiftyWon

Number is too specific to be an "unatainable" number. And why would they do that when the actuator can just be disabled completey?

number is the maximum value for a 16 bit signed integer. So yeah, it is very specific, and totally tells you that it is a 'junk' value set so that it never kicks in.

[NFiftyWon]

Originally Posted by Meeni

number is the maximum value for a 16 bit signed integer. So yeah, it is very specific, and totally tells you that it is a 'junk' value set so that it never kicks in.

Interesting. So this would explain why a tune is needed to capitalize. Question is why?

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by N52UNED

IF you are referring to the 44,000 RPM as a typo ... it's is ... actually it's 32,767 RPM for the stock 325i programing. Although I'm off by at bit more than 11,000 RPM ... either way BMW put in unattainable numbers for the second DISA to basically make the 3IM not work for the 328/325.
[/url]

Actually, this is not true. Before I did the 3IM swap many years ago, I took the DISA valves by themselves, set them on top of the intake, and plugged them into the cables attached to the stock single stage manifold, and revved the engine.

Both start out closed until around 3200 rpm, where the small one opened, and then the large one opened up around 4500 rpm. I saw it with my own eyes - both DISA's were opening and closing as revved the motor up and down the rpm range.

So the DISA signals are there, and they will work. you will gain some power, both low and high end, but there is a giant hole between 4000 and 4500 rpm. Getting a tune will make the hole disappear and also give you more power everywhere.

After I installed the manifold, I dyno'd my 325i without the tune and it picked up around 20 ft/lbs of low end torque and about 9-10hp above 4500rpm. With the tune, it was over 30hp/30tq (remember 325i starts at 215hp instead of 230hp like the 328).

but the programming for the DISA actuations were there without the tune. They may not have been optimal, but they were there.

[N52UNED]

Originally Posted by NFiftyWon

Number is too specific to be an "unatainable" number. And why would they do that when the actuator can just be disabled completey?

I see what you're saying ... but since the amount of RPM's cannot be reached, I find the number to be much more arbitrary than specific. But who knows, maybe it's an inside joke. Maybe the designer's birthday is 3/27/67 and decided to write it in non-european format. IDK. However, it's most likely what Axiom stated.

When one thinks about it ... it does disable the DISA completely by giving it such a unattainable number; without the need of additional programming to disable it. As this engine will never, never, never, ever reach 32,767 RPM

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Probably because the byte size/values - that might be the highest number it can read.

This is likely the reason.

It makes the most sense. Giving it a number it can't read, although even half that is far fetched and practically impossible of being reached... it's much safer to put in a figure that will insure it wouldn't be able to be read.

[GMe90]

Originally Posted by rick100

unless you are going SC with custom tune and headers there is not way you are getting 300 whp in a 328

Even 300 at the crank is unrealistic , unless you are one of those people that thin there is 25 % loss .

I ve seen many dyno charts in the na section with full bolts on 328s ( meaning exhaust, headers, 3 stage intake , bpc or aa tune) and most of them are getting between 220 - 240 whp ( higher number on manual transmission) . I believe one guy claimed 250 whp with a more custom tune .

I ll only agree on one thing , a full bolts on 328 will cost you around 2000 $ in the lower end , and it will net you about 30-40 whp on a good day . The driving experience on a full bolts on 328 is worth that money , sure it is not crazy fast , but the car is not dull anymore , perfect for the street .

Stock 328i is much more fun to drive on the street than a 335i. You want to talk about a boring and dull car to drive on the street? Get into a 335i. Tap the gas, and you are immediately way over the speed limit. I've owned a 328i and a 335i. On the street, the 328i is much more engaging and fun to drive. It also handles noticeably better than the nose-heavy 335i on the twisty roads.

[N52UNED]

Originally Posted by mike-y

Actually, this is not true. Before I did the 3IM swap many years ago, I took the DISA valves by themselves, set them on top of the intake, and plugged them into the cables attached to the stock single stage manifold, and revved the engine.

Both start out closed until around 3200 rpm, where the small one opened, and then the large one opened up around 4500 rpm. I saw it with my own eyes - both DISA's were opening and closing as revved the motor up and down the rpm range.

So the DISA signals are there, and they will work. you will gain some power, both low and high end, but there is a giant hole between 4000 and 4500 rpm. Getting a tune will make the hole disappear and also give you more power everywhere.

After I installed the manifold, I dyno'd my 325i without the tune and it picked up around 20 ft/lbs of low end torque and about 9-10hp above 4500rpm. With the tune, it was over 30hp/30tq (remember 325i starts at 215hp instead of 230hp like the 328).

but the programming for the DISA actuations were there without the tune. They may not have been optimal, but they were there.

Did the DISA's open fully at any point? And yes ... the 1st DISA does operate but not optimally .. it's the second one that there seems to be the question.

Perhaps you should start a thread in the NA subforum presenting this information. Since no one that I'm aware of has come forth with dyno info for a 3IM install alone. There's a lot of talk (writing) out there that the second DISA doesn't operate. Even programing pics (as I've shown from the Hass 3IM thread). I'm curious to see how this shakes out.

Frankly outside of you ... many who sell 3IM upgrade kits state that a tune is needed to see performance gains. This was also stated directly to me as well by BimmerWorld in GA after I bought my 3IM from them. And with the Dyno'd info you state ... they are all wrong ... that it does in fact increase both the torque and HP without the need for any additional tuning, regardless of it working optimally. Something here isn't adding up.



Personally after I had a 3IM installed in my 328i ... I felt no real performance difference that couldn't be dismissed as placebo. Some change in dynamics ... around the point of the 1st DISA opening (around the same RPM as shown in pic), but definitely not the numbers you're presenting. Neither did the mechanic that installed the intake. Especially that much more low end torque which is much easier to feel than 10 hp. I didn't feel any real gain in that area until after I flashed the BPC tune. Frankly, I'm not the only person who has stated this ... perhaps it's because I have an auto transmission, but I do push the RPM's both in "D" and when switched to manual. Just to throw it out there ... yes, my DISAs work as they should.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by GMe90

Stock 328i is much more fun to drive on the street than a 335i. You want to talk about a boring and dull car to drive on the street? Get into a 335i. Tap the gas, and you are immediately way over the speed limit. I've owned a 328i and a 335i. On the street, the 328i is much more engaging and fun to drive. It also handles noticeably better than the nose-heavy 335i on the twisty roads.

my problem with stuck 328 , is not that is not quick because it is actually a peppy car, my main problem is that it never really takes off , 3500 rpm feels the same as 7 000 rpm , very smooth acceleration . Best way to described for me would be that while accelerating at 3000 rpm you are getting ready to smile but you never do as the car just never takes off

headers , intake , tune mods really solved this problem , the car feels really opens up above 4000 rpm , you feel a little push to the back of the seat, nothing crazy but at least something .

as per the 335 comment , I ve been in a 335, I love the low torque , but yes it gets up there pretty quick so you could call it boring , i guess. Personally I like it

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by N52UNED

Did the DISA's open fully at any point? And yes ... the 1st DISA does operate but not optimally .. it's the second one that there seems to be the question.

Yes, they do. when they open, they "snap" from fully closed to fully open in a fraction of a second. There is no in-between setting on the valves. they are either 100% closed or 100% open.

Perhaps you should start a thread in the NA subforum presenting this information. Since no one that I'm aware of has come forth with dyno info for a 3IM install alone. There's a lot of talk (writing) out there that the second DISA doesn't operate. Even programing pics (as I've shown from the Hass 3IM thread). I'm curious to see how this shakes out.

I think I was the 2nd or 3rd person on the forum to do the swap (after E90driver), and there was already a lot of discussion about this a few years back. I did go to a dyno with another member (without the 3IM) to help determine the type of gains (or lack of) with the manifold without the tune. we overlaid both our dynos, and you can see the low end gains and high end gains, plus that big hole in the middle where it makes less tq/hp than stock. Those graphs are posted in a thread on here somewhere.

Frankly outside of you ... many who sell 3IM upgrade kits state that a tune is needed to see performance gains. This was also stated directly to me as well by BimmerWorld in GA after I bought my 3IM from them. And with the Dyno'd info you state ... they are all wrong ... that it does in fact increase both the torque and HP without the need for any additional tuning, regardless of it working optimally. Something here isn't adding up.

Right, there are small gains with just the manifold, but also a negative hole in the powerband that is lower than stock around 4000 rpm that affects drivability. The tune is still needed to get rid of the hole, and make significant gains above 3500 rpm.

Personally after I had a 3IM installed in my 328i ... I felt no real performance difference that couldn't be dismissed as placebo. Some change in dynamics ... around the point of the 1st DISA opening (around the same RPM as shown in pic), but definitely not the numbers you're presenting. Neither did the mechanic that installed the intake. Especially that much more low end torque which is much easier to feel than 10 hp. I didn't feel any real gain in that area until after I flashed the BPC tune. Frankly, I'm not the only person who has stated this ... perhaps it's because I have an auto transmission, but I do push the RPM's both in "D" and when switched to manual. Just to throw it out there ... yes, my DISAs work as they should.

well, you started with a 328i which already has 15hp more than my car started with, so maybe the 325i reacts to the 3IM more favorably than the 328i because it's already down on power.

The final dyno of the manifold plus AA tune (original version 1 of the tune) show gains of 38hp and 32tq over stock with the BMS power box. I never got around to updating the tune, but here is my post from 2012

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=dyno

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by feuer

What? No, they won't give you a loner, brand new in particular. These are the possibilities:
-no loaner
-used car loaner
-rental
-demo car
Depends what is broken, how costly is the repair, how long is the down time, how much in love the SA is with you and so on and so on.
I agree on the 5 year part.

I dunno, last 5-7 times I've been to a couple different dealers across different states for warranty work I was given cars like an F30 328iT M-Sport, F30 328i, new F33 340i, and a new X1 for things ranging from a simple oil change to an alignment to a DME reflash.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

I dunno, last 5-7 times I've been to a couple different dealers across different states for warranty work I was given cars like an F30 328iT M-Sport, F30 328i, new F33 340i, and a new X1 for things ranging from a simple oil change to an alignment to a DME reflash.

Ok, I will share my personal experience, HPFP, turbos, battery cable = no loaner. 3 different dealers. 2 in IL and 1 in Wisc.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by mike-y

Yes, they do. when they open, they "snap" from fully closed to fully open in a fraction of a second. There is no in-between setting on the valves. they are either 100% closed or 100% open.



I think I was the 2nd or 3rd person on the forum to do the swap (after E90driver), and there was already a lot of discussion about this a few years back. I did go to a dyno with another member (without the 3IM) to help determine the type of gains (or lack of) with the manifold without the tune. we overlaid both our dynos, and you can see the low end gains and high end gains, plus that big hole in the middle where it makes less tq/hp than stock. Those graphs are posted in a thread on here somewhere.




Right, there are small gains with just the manifold, but also a negative hole in the powerband that is lower than stock around 4000 rpm that affects drivability. The tune is still needed to get rid of the hole, and make significant gains above 3500 rpm.




well, you started with a 328i which already has 15hp more than my car started with, so maybe the 325i reacts to the 3IM more favorably than the 328i because it's already down on power.

The final dyno of the manifold plus AA tune (original version 1 of the tune) show gains of 38hp and 32tq over stock with the BMS power box. I never got around to updating the tune, but here is my post from 2012

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=dyno

We miss you Mikey, come back to us man.

[N52UNED]

Originally Posted by mike-y

Yes, they do. when they open, they "snap" from fully closed to fully open in a fraction of a second. There is no in-between setting on the valves. they are either 100% closed or 100% open.

I think I was the 2nd or 3rd person on the forum to do the swap (after E90driver), and there was already a lot of discussion about this a few years back. I did go to a dyno with another member (without the 3IM) to help determine the type of gains (or lack of) with the manifold without the tune. we overlaid both our dynos, and you can see the low end gains and high end gains, plus that big hole in the middle where it makes less tq/hp than stock. Those graphs are posted in a thread on here somewhere.

Right, there are small gains with just the manifold, but also a negative hole in the powerband that is lower than stock around 4000 rpm that affects drivability. The tune is still needed to get rid of the hole, and make significant gains above 3500 rpm.

well, you started with a 328i which already has 15hp more than my car started with, so maybe the 325i reacts to the 3IM more favorably than the 328i because it's already down on power.

The final dyno of the manifold plus AA tune (original version 1 of the tune) show gains of 38hp and 32tq over stock with the BMS power box. I never got around to updating the tune, but here is my post from 2012

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=dyno

I was kinda thinking that could be a plausible reason why you could feel the difference vs my experience and other 328 owners.


On a side note ... Thank you for posting and clarifying a bit ... there's so much conflicting accounts on these forums regarding whether or not there's any gains at all from the 3IM swap on the 328's (and 325's for that matter).

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

We miss you Mikey, come back to us man.

thanks, man.

been working 50-60hrs a week since February. Things are finally starting to slow down a bit, so hopefully I can keep up with some of the cool things happening in the NA section.

[boostE92d]

Originally Posted by GMe90

Stock 328i is much more fun to drive on the street than a 335i. You want to talk about a boring and dull car to drive on the street? Get into a 335i. Tap the gas, and you are immediately way over the speed limit. I've owned a 328i and a 335i. On the street, the 328i is much more engaging and fun to drive. It also handles noticeably better than the nose-heavy 335i on the twisty roads.

If I had a dollar for every time I tapped the gas, went too fast and found myself wishing I had bought a slower car. Dull indeed.

[CobraMarty]

300hp is 100hp/L. That is achievable with a well tuned N/A engine.

The N52 engine with all the goodies (3IM, PE, PI, silicone inlet, secondary cat delete, headers, tune, valvetronic lift mod) will be close to achieving this 100hp/L level of performance. Maybe could benefit from another 0.5 of compression.

I wish the 335 guys would stay in their own sandbox and not post in threads about the N52/328. It gets really old.

Originally Posted by boostE92d

If I had a dollar for every time I tapped the gas, went too fast and found myself wishing I had bought a slower car. Dull indeed.

I wish I had a dollar for every time a 335 guy posted in a 328 thread about how you 'should buy a 335'.

[boostE92d]

You guys are talking about crank horsepower. Estimated using a completely unverified percentage of drivetrain loss. 300 crank is achievable on just about any modern car, just plug a higher number in that spot on the equation. Car manufacturers do it all the time.
I've read some truly great fiction on forums, and much of it is rooted in justifying choices of car and modifications. If you post fantasy as if it were fact, you will get responses from people who live in the real world.

[N52UNED]

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

300hp is 100hp/L. That is achievable with a well tuned N/A engine.

The N52 engine with all the goodies (3IM, PE, PI, silicone inlet, secondary cat delete, headers, tune, valvetronic lift mod) will be close to achieving this 100hp/L level of performance. Maybe could benefit from another 0.5 of compression.

I wish the 335 guys would stay in their own sandbox and not post in threads about the N52/328. It gets really old.


I wish I had a dollar for every time a 335 guy posted in a 328 thread about how you 'should buy a 335'.

Right On! ... seriously in real world driving conditions what's a stock '07 335i going to get you over a stock '07 328i ... 1.2 seconds 0-60 ... 0.7 seconds quarter mile. So it's 1 - MISSISSIPPI faster to 60. Ok ... great. Frankly unless you're racing ... who cares!?! Sure they're faster but not "HOLY SHIT THAT CAR IS FAST!" ... kind of faster. It's not like a 335 is putting down Hellcat numbers.

A good friend of mine has a 335 ... yup it's faster than my 328 ... but it's not so much faster than my 328 (when stock) that I wish I bought a 335. Honestly as a passenger it doesn't really feel that much faster ... why ... because unless you're racing someone you are not going to notice that extra MISSISSIPPI to 60.

... And since I put in my 3IM and BPC tune (328i - 330i conversion) ... it feels even less quick, and not because it accelerates to 60 0.5 seconds quicker (based on 330i numbers) ... but because with the BPC tune it has a lot more low end torque that you can feel.

Then add to the argument that a 335 will typically cost more for repairs than a 328 ... it makes that 1.2 seconds even less enticing.

IMHO ... the only reason to get a 335 over a 328 is if you plan to turn it into a "tuner" car, as 335's are great cars for lots of additional HP on the cheap. Other than that ... 1.2 seconds in every day driving isn't really worth wishing to have gotten a 335.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by mike-y

Yes, they do. when they open, they "snap" from fully closed to fully open in a fraction of a second. There is no in-between setting on the valves. they are either 100% closed or 100% open.



I think I was the 2nd or 3rd person on the forum to do the swap (after E90driver), and there was already a lot of discussion about this a few years back. I did go to a dyno with another member (without the 3IM) to help determine the type of gains (or lack of) with the manifold without the tune. we overlaid both our dynos, and you can see the low end gains and high end gains, plus that big hole in the middle where it makes less tq/hp than stock. Those graphs are posted in a thread on here somewhere.




Right, there are small gains with just the manifold, but also a negative hole in the powerband that is lower than stock around 4000 rpm that affects drivability. The tune is still needed to get rid of the hole, and make significant gains above 3500 rpm.




well, you started with a 328i which already has 15hp more than my car started with, so maybe the 325i reacts to the 3IM more favorably than the 328i because it's already down on power.

The final dyno of the manifold plus AA tune (original version 1 of the tune) show gains of 38hp and 32tq over stock with the BMS power box. I never got around to updating the tune, but here is my post from 2012

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=dyno

[dancing__narwhal]

Look guys, let's give the OP a break. He's not trying to argue that the 328i is or can be faster than a 335i. He's also not saying that it's cheaper to buy and tune a 328i than buying a stock 335i. We all know that both of those things are false.

However, there are good reasons to buy and mod a 328i over a 335i:
- Lighter weight engine = better handling
- Smooth power delivery and "feel" of a naturally aspirated engine
- Reliability (we all know the n52 is more reliable)
- Some people just enjoy modding for fun and you can buy *and* mod a 328i for similar cost to buying (and repairing) and 335i
- It's the last NA straight-six engine to come out of Bavaria. BMW has been known for NA-6s since the E30 325i all the way to the legendary 3.2L S54 in the E46 M3.

Besides this, 300hp is just an arbitrary number. Even if the n52 is not capable of 300 crank hp (which I agree with CobraMarty that it could be), it has definitely been shown to produce about 240whp with basic mods, which is about 290 crank hp. That's still a respectable number from a 3.0L NA engine and a heck of a lot faster than most of the Kias and Toyotas on the road.

Let's let go of the 328i vs 335i debate and respect each of these cars for their own merits. I, for one, am very happy with my 328i.

[jeddo45]

Originally Posted by dgaultiere

Look guys, let's give the OP a break. He's not trying to argue that the 328i is or can be faster than a 335i. He's also not saying that it's cheaper to buy and tune a 328i than buying a stock 335i. We all know that both of those things are false.

However, there are good reasons to buy and mod a 328i over a 335i:
- Lighter weight engine = better handling
- Smooth power delivery and "feel" of a naturally aspirated engine
- Reliability (we all know the n52 is more reliable)
- Some people just enjoy modding for fun and you can buy *and* mod a 328i for similar cost to buying (and repairing) and 335i
- It's the last NA straight-six engine to come out of Bavaria. BMW has been known for NA-6s since the E30 325i all the way to the legendary 3.2L S54 in the E46 M3.

Besides this, 300hp is just an arbitrary number. Even if the n52 is not capable of 300 crank hp (which I agree with CobraMarty that it could be), it has definitely been shown to produce about 240whp with basic mods, which is about 290 crank hp. That's still a respectable number from a 3.0L NA engine and a heck of a lot faster than most of the Kias and Toyotas on the road.

Let's let go of the 328i vs 335i debate and respect each of these cars for their own merits. I, for one, am very happy with my 328i.

OP set himself up for failure by inflating the potential gains from an engine that was never engineered to be modified for more HP. I think the point of the arguments here is why not purchase the 328i and appreciate it for the vehicle BMW wanted it to be.

My first BMW was a 328i. I loved it. It was an awesome car that gave the BMW experience that I wanted. I now have a 335i because it's faster and I could modify it (and I am working on it currently).

To each their own.

[boostE92d]

There are alot of cars that are better than a 328. You don't have to bash them to feel better about what you've decided to mod. For the record, I've never said buy a 335.
Op posted this in the general section, not the n/a section. This is all of our sandbox, and I came in to see a 300 HP motor. This isn't a thread about a 300 HP motor.
Your girlfriend is ugly. It doesn't matter what the justification for you being with her (can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch) she is still ugly. I'm about loving what you've got, stop trying to justify it with B's.

[srmast1]

Originally Posted by IISevv

I understand 335's are a better deal but that wasn't my point. 335's are more expensive to buy, maintain, and insure and not every high school or college student can afford that. My article was specifically for people who can't get a 335 for whatever reason.

College kids should not be worried about buying used bmws and then modifying them, and high schoolers should not be doing this at all!! (Parents? Wtf?) That is not an appropriate activity for most young adults focused on school. Then, all these mods and upgrades can decrease reliability and engine life. Not saying 100%, but pretty likely. So that's more for potential maintenance. I honestly feel like the age group/demographic should not worry about buying used 328i and modding them. Finish school, and then save up for the car they want. Don't short change yourself by getting something cheaper. Now if you already own a 328 and just want a bit more power then I say go for it, but only if you can easily afford the car payment, price of mods, cost of maintenance in case the mods cause engine problems. This will also negate any aftermarket 3rd party warranty.

However, if someone cannot afford a used 335 and are just hell bent on having a BMW of some kind or to show off that they have a BMW of some kind then sure get a used 328 and mod it. I feel as if they should buy a 328i because it is a nice car and that is the car they actually want and will be happy with its power levels and performance. If not, just save a bit for a 335. Don't sell yourselves short!! Save up and go for what you really want!! And if that requires you to not buy a used BMW in college, then dont. Wait til you have a career because while 328i are not too expensive, they still have BMW maintenance. The 328 is still entry level luxury and as such, is a very nice car.

On a personal note, when I was in college, I would have loved a BMW of any kind, but I knew it wasn't a good idea. So I got a hyundai elantra which I drove all through college and still drive it to work. Then after I was settled and working I bought the car I've always wanted: an m3. I fell in love with the E46 m3, but when I was hunting for cars in 2015, I decided to go with a 2011 e90 m3 and I love it. So the pay off was so worth the wait!!